Air source heat pump (mini split) for narrowboat

[flASH shabby]

There's a Panasonic split. It can go lower, so under the gunwall.

I'm going to be fitting one of these soon ish.

Will post results

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, flASH shabby said:

There's a Panasonic split. It can go lower, so under the gunwall.

I'm going to be fitting one of these soon ish.

Will post results

 

I am confused, I thought these had inside and outside units so although the inside one could go under the gunwale, I doubt it would be satisfactory to fit the outside one to the hull side.

[flASH shabby]

Yes split means inside -outside. They aren't 1 unit however, then can be in different spots up to 30m apart I think. You just have to run 2 insulated copper hoses between them, filled with F-gas that's why you need someone with the qualifications.

 

Mines going on the roof I think for now as I don't cruise. With some nice juicy solar panels to offset running costs.

Then later I'll build a platform and cage on the bow for cruising and the like.

I'm taking the qualifications and fitting my own. I obviously if you've gotta pay a heat pump guy this will be more expensive.

But I deffo think this is the future.

[Rishworth_Bridge]

Having looked into this subject in some detail while specifying the heating for the Scottish trip boat mentioned earlier, I wouldn't look beyond a Kensa Shoebox. These will heat to 65C (albeit with a loss of efficiency so 35-50C is more usual) and Kensa have quite a few successful installations on canal boats, some narrow, some not. Their website details the former Severn barge Sabrina 5, now a floating classroom in Gloucester, and the live-aboard Dutch Barge Tulak' The former has a 6 kW unit, the latter a 3 kW one which, I assume. its owners find adequate.  2kW has long been quoted as the heat required to keep a narrowboat warm in cold weather so this looks reasonable (though heating from cold might be quite slow). I think I am right in saying that Sabrina uses a raw water heat capture system (no icing) while Tulak has skin tanks (no blockages). I would suggest that Lori2025 get in touch with Hydrogen Afloat (https://www.hydrogenafloat.com/). Don't be put off by the name; they are Kensa agents and are in the final stages of developing a high efficiency 'skin tank', in which context I am assured that Shoeboxes have a back-flush facility to deal with any icing problems. A final point which is rarely mentioned: Shoeboxes (and probably any other wet output heat pump) need a buffer tank to prevent frequent cycling. This also needs space, though it can also be used to help capture waste heat from generators, etc.

[MtB]

45 minutes ago, flASH shabby said:

Yes split means inside -outside. They aren't 1 unit however, then can be in different spots up to 30m apart I think. You just have to run 2 insulated copper hoses between them, filled with F-gas that's why you need someone with the qualifications.

 

Mines going on the roof I think for now as I don't cruise. With some nice juicy solar panels to offset running costs.

Then later I'll build a platform and cage on the bow for cruising and the like.

I'm taking the qualifications and fitting my own. I obviously if you've gotta pay a heat pump guy this will be more expensive.

But I deffo think this is the future.

 

I installed exactly this in my hovel about three years ago. It was an interesting exercise but rather than spend £1,300 on getting the F-Gas ticket myself and spending £5k on all the gear to go with it, I asked a local air-con firm to evacuate, charge and commission my new system. They charged me £200 which seemed too cheap as it took the chap about three hours, plus the gas. 

 

Both the inside (floor standing) unit and the outside unit are quite large and would take up a lot of space on a narrowboat. 

 

 

 

Here's the outside unit. That's a 19kg gas bottle next to it, for scale. 

 

 

[flASH shabby]

15 minutes ago, Rishworth_Bridge said:

Having looked into this subject in some detail while specifying the heating for the Scottish trip boat mentioned earlier, I wouldn't look beyond a Kensa Shoebox. These will heat to 65C (albeit with a loss of efficiency so 35-50C is more usual) and Kensa have quite a few successful installations on canal boats, some narrow, some not. Their website details the former Severn barge Sabrina 5, now a floating classroom in Gloucester, and the live-aboard Dutch Barge Tulak' The former has a 6 kW unit, the latter a 3 kW one which, I assume. its owners find adequate.  2kW has long been quoted as the heat required to keep a narrowboat warm in cold weather so this looks reasonable (though heating from cold might be quite slow). I think I am right in saying that Sabrina uses a raw water heat capture system (no icing) while Tulak has skin tanks (no blockages). I would suggest that Lori2025 get in touch with Hydrogen Afloat (https://www.hydrogenafloat.com/). Don't be put off by the name; they are Kensa agents and are in the final stages of developing a high efficiency 'skin tank', in which context I am assured that Shoeboxes have a back-flush facility to deal with any icing problems. A final point which is rarely mentioned: Shoeboxes (and probably any other wet output heat pump) need a buffer tank to prevent frequent cycling. This also needs space, though it can also be used to help capture waste heat from generators, etc.

I agree and sure it's a great option! I would if I could. But when I looked the most basic until was £7k and a Panasonic splity is £500.

Ive converted my cheap bought boat myself and the rule is always the most cost effective option wins.

 

I'm toying with the idea of trying to make my own water source in the future when I have a better understanding of the systems.

 

But for now I think rough costs of fitted £800 if I do it myself is a no contest winner

[colin stone]

I'm amazed the aircon lines aren't available pre charged. I installed a Frigoboat R134a freezer system in my vessel. Evaporator, compressor, keel water cooled condenser, air condenser and filter dryer all supplied pre charged with self sealing connections. No F-gas man required. 

I then discoverd that the relevant EU Gas directive doesn't even cover fridges in boats. Whether UK has changed that post BREXIT, I know not. 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, colin stone said:

I'm amazed the aircon lines aren't available pre charged.

 

They are. Just not in the UK. It's how we like to do things here. 

 

When idiots are allowed to mess with refrigerant gases, some of them WILL let the stuff out. And that it not a Good Idea apparently. 

 

 

In the USA I believe all domestic F-Gas work is considered suitable for DIY.

 

 

Not surprising given they don't accept global warming is a thing. 

 

 

 

 

[colin stone]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

 

They are. Just not in the UK. It's how we like to do things here. 

 

All my Frigoboat bits were bought in UK. Except the filter dryer which came from France and uncharged. FR domestic gas engineer won't touch R134a now - what happens with cars? - so I needed 50g R134a. Managed to get a cylinder online. 

Fun, fun, fun.