Starter Motor help

[TheRev]

Hello. Can anyone recommend a mechanic who could fix a starter motor in the Berkhamstead area? (BMC 1500)

The electrics have burned out...

Failing that, all identification numbers are worn off/unreadable so could any one explain how to proceed in buying a replacement?

Thankyou in advance for help.

 

[David Mack]

30 minutes ago, TheRev said:

The electrics have burned out...

Do you mean the motor has burned out, or the external wiring?

31 minutes ago, TheRev said:

Failing that, all identification numbers are worn off/unreadable so could any one explain how to proceed in buying a replacement?

Photos would help.

[Tony Brooks]

32 minutes ago, TheRev said:

Failing that, all identification numbers are worn off/unreadable so could any one explain how to proceed in buying a replacement?

Thankyou in advance for help.

 

That is not so easy because there have been three different starters used. To ensure that you get one suitable for a boat then probably talk to Calcutt  Boats but expect to pay well for it. Your local starter and alternator specials can overhaul yours, but you need a local to give you the contact.

 

Like David, I ask you to be more explicit about what is wrong, lay people often use terms like burned out or short circuit as catch all phrase to sound knowledgeable, but that just confuses the issue.

[TheRev]

Thankyou for your swift responses.

I am a lay person which is why I was asking for help. I had no wish to appear knowledgeable.

I'll see what help I can find locally. Thanks again.

[Tony Brooks]

2 hours ago, TheRev said:

Thankyou for your swift responses.

I am a lay person which is why I was asking for help. I had no wish to appear knowledgeable.

I'll see what help I can find locally. Thanks again.

 

As David asked, is it the motor or the boat's starter wiring that has burned out. If the latter the motor may or may not be at fault, and it could just as well be caused by a live wire touching metal.

 

If you mean the motor won't work now then that in no way says it has burned out. However, if it smokes, gets hot when you try to start it could well mean it has burned out, although it might do that is just one of its four brushes has worn out or has stuck in its older.

 

If there is no smoke and no click/clunk when you try to start then that is more likely to be a problem with the ignition switch or wiring.

 

If you do get a clunk or click, but the motor won't run it is more likely to be a solenoid contact fault.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 4 by Tony Brooks

[BEngo]

There is a starter motor ( and alternator)  wizard in the Stocklake industrial estate alongside the Aylesbury  Arm at lock 15.  A Number 500 bus from Berko High St should get you close enough. ( Get off at the Plough on Tring Road in Aylesbury and turn right by the garage then walk along about 200 m to the Aylesbury Arm. Turn left onto the footpath by the canal.  Cross into the estate  at lock 15.)   If in doubt, call in at ACS in Circus Field basin and see Andrew, who will direct you.

[TheRev]

Thankyou so much.

When I lived in a town, I usually new someone who new someone who could help get things done. As a continuos cruiser (when the engine/starter motor etc allow for it!) , I love going to new places and it's a challenge being a stranger and not knowing the right people (or the wrong!) to talk with. Thanks again .

 

I'm revisiting this in the hope it could help others on the future! There is such knowledge and generosity in sharing here...

I went to start my engine. It would not start!

It is a BMC 1500, A 1.5 litre four cylinder keel cooled diesel engine.

As advised I hit the starter motor with a hammer, to free it up if it was jamming. This did not help.

I checked the power in the battery which was fine.

I could here the clicking, as if it wanted to work.

I recalled (in horror) that the ignition key had been sticking and imagined if it had got stuck on it would have sent a charge for a long time and maybe 'burned out' the electrics.

Where the wires connect to the starter motor there was a new and mysterious white discharge.

I took out the starter motor. It has only two bolts holding it in place.

When I looked on the internet for a replacement all the images had 3 bolts.

Tony shared that different starter motors were used. Without clear numbers to identify the starter, how does one repair/replace it?

I don't know what a solenoid is really but the motor seems clean and all parts moving if that makes sense.

I hope that's clearer and some advice can be shared for those in a similar predicament searching in this BMC motor forum treasure trove.

 

[Tony Brooks]

31 minutes ago, TheRev said:

Thankyou so much.

When I lived in a town, I usually new someone who new someone who could help get things done. As a continuos cruiser (when the engine/starter motor etc allow for it!) , I love going to new places and it's a challenge being a stranger and not knowing the right people (or the wrong!) to talk with. Thanks again .

 

I'm revisiting this in the hope it could help others on the future! There is such knowledge and generosity in sharing here...

I went to start my engine. It would not start!

It is a BMC 1500, A 1.5 litre four cylinder keel cooled diesel engine.

As advised I hit the starter motor with a hammer, to free it up if it was jamming. This did not help.

I checked the power in the battery which was fine.

I could here the clicking, as if it wanted to work.

I recalled (in horror) that the ignition key had been sticking and imagined if it had got stuck on it would have sent a charge for a long time and maybe 'burned out' the electrics.

Where the wires connect to the starter motor there was a new and mysterious white discharge.

I took out the starter motor. It has only two bolts holding it in place.

When I looked on the internet for a replacement all the images had 3 bolts.

Tony shared that different starter motors were used. Without clear numbers to identify the starter, how does one repair/replace it?

I don't know what a solenoid is really but the motor seems clean and all parts moving if that makes sense.

I hope that's clearer and some advice can be shared for those in a similar predicament searching in this BMC motor forum treasure trove.

 

 

Thank you for the extra information, that raises problems.

 

Very early BMC 1.5s had a two hole fixing inertia starter which has just a single larger cylinder body, I have only ever seen one in the 70s they were impossible to obtain, so that would be an overhaul or a new engine backplate, flywheel housing, engine mounts and possibly work on the engine beds and possibly a new flywheel.

 

Having scared you many of the "normal" 1.5s have a three hole fixing, but only held on by two bolts because of access problems. These moors consist of the larger "body" cylinder with a much smaller cylinder mounted on it. The small cylinder is the solenoid, and it will have at LEAST one thick battery cable, one thin "start signal" cable and thickish short black cable or a shaped copper bar joining one of the nut type solenoid terminals to the large cylinder.  They are readily available, although you might end up with the solenoid differently orientated.

 

Now a warning for others, although this does not apply to all or perhaps the majority of BMC 1.5s. Nowadays NEVER hit the starter, modern ones have permanent magnets that shatter easily and if you shatter then you will be buying a new starter.

 

How did you ascertain the battery is fine? Just measuring the battery voltage means nothing. We need the battery voltage while you are trying to start, it should be over 12V., but other problems in the circuits can give a satisfactory voltage, but the stater still only click.

 

If it is an OVAL two hole mounting bracket then you need to get it to someone to overhaul it, or, drastic as it may seem. prepare for major expense for an engine change or major engine work.

 

I wonder if those two hole starters were actually off the B series petrol engine so things like Austin A50s and Morris Oxfords.

 

Can you post a photo of the starter, the white "discharge", the starter wiring and the back of the engine.

 

Put the motor back and connect, then measure the cranking voltage at the battery and then between the thick black lead terminal on the starter and any clean metal or battery negative and post them here. That way we can try to eliminate anything other than a starter fault.

 

If it really is a two bolt starter then instead of hitting it with a hammer you should see a little square stuck out the back of the motor. If you try to twist this with a spanner it will either turn, be it with resistance, or lock. If it locks try applying a bit of force in both directions. if it has jammed you will hopefully get a click as you wind the pinion away from the flywheel, and then it might start, but that indicates pinion or flywheel teeth damage on an inertia starter - maybe a photo of the pinion as well.

 

I am really hoping it is not a two hole inertia starter.

[Tony Brooks]

4 hours ago, TheRev said:

I recalled (in horror) that the ignition key had been sticking and imagined if it had got stuck on it would have sent a charge for a long time and maybe 'burned out' the electrics.

 

Very unlikely. If it had stuck on "start" only an idiot would ignore the engine endlessly cranking, and I don't think you are an idiot. If it stuck on preheat the worst it might do is burn out the glow plugs, and you would end up with a flat start battery, both being, in my view, more likely than burned out wiring. Both those are supposed to be spring back positions, so I think those are the positions you are talking about, but if it stuck in the ignition on position (you did not physically turn it off) then over a period it would have flattened the battery via the alternator rotor plus the warning lamps and instruments, but all that would do is make the alternator warm to the touch and leave the charge and oil pressure warning lamp on.

 

4 hours ago, TheRev said:

Where the wires connect to the starter motor there was a new and mysterious white discharge.

 

This has me baffled without a better description - smoke, liquid, dusty looking. If it is corrosion on the terminal area then unless it has had battery acid on it, or acid has worked its way down the conductor strands I would expect it to be greenish (copper), but it could be the residue of soldering flux which should have showed itself long ago. Does it smell of anything?

 

I can't think of anything in either starter type that would produce white liquid, but see below, and I would expect any gasses from burning components to be more light grey to blackish and smell of fish or burning plastic/rubber.

 

An exceptionally long shot is that you have an oil leak from the rear main bearing that is mixing with bilge water in the flywheel housing and being emulsified and thrown about by the flywheel. That could get into the starter and MIGHT leak out by the terminals, but although clean oil produces amber emulsification on most diesels the result would be an oily grey mousse. #

 

If you have a two bolt starter or an earlier three bolt starter there should be a metal band perhaps 1.25"  wide around the terminal end of the starter that is secured with a nut and screw. If you loosen the screw and slide the band along the starter body you can have a look inside it and see if the inside is covered with oily mess. Later motors have a slightly domes back cover that is secured by two nuts (from memory).

[TheRev]

Thankyou! I'm away from the boat just now and will have a look and update you soon. Have a good day.