Slowly sinking new boater seeks emergency GRP repair advice

[Chris Yearsley]

Hello all. Not the post I wanted to start with. We have a sinking problem and would much appreciate any advice.

 

My daughter bought a 27ft GRP cruiser a month ago planning to refurbish to liveaboard standard. Sailing on the Birmingham and Fazeley towards her new permanent mooring in Birmingham, it (1) broke down, and (2) started leaking badly. The corner of the stern seems to be cracked and is separating from the side, from the bottom upwards and we're having to bail out often to stay above water. With nobody on the boat at the moment and the boat in kind of a bad place it's a huge worry. Looks like an old bodge GRP repair has come apart. We have no clue what do to. RCR are fixing the engine but we're on our own with the sinking.

 

Forward looking advice if possible please. Yes, we should have had a survey but the surveyor wouldn't do one with it in the water. We needed to move fast to get past a canal restriction and get to the mooring in time, we were on the clock for various reasons. Yes, a steel narrowboat would be more robust but all the ones we could afford had hulls needing major overplating. We thought that as this was in the water and were assured the engine was great, and it was sold as needing electrical and gas work (fine), we could sail a few days then get the interior serviced and upgraded once it was 'home'.

 

The engine was not great. The hull is really not great. It's a cheap boat but a huge financial commitment for my daughter. We need someone that can do an emergency patch somehow and book it in for a proper structural repair as soon as that can be arranged (drydock??) 

 

Help?

[LadyG]

Is there a boatyard close which could take the boat out of the water, because it will need to be out, dried, and then repaired with glass fibre. 

This will have to be done at some time.

I dont see that taking it to a mooring is going to help with repairing it, it could end up sinking on the mooring.

Edited March 2 by LadyG

[agg221]

Emergency fixes in the water to stop it leaking:
 

Most things won’t stick to a wet surface.

 

You could try an adhesive tape of the type designed for emergency roof repair- make sure it is one which will stick to a wet surface.

 

Alternatively, West System epoxy will bond underwater. You would need to get the surface as clean as possible (Scotchbrite) and I would stick a sheet of glass fibre mat over it, ideally woven not chopped strand. Push well in to the epoxy to stop it cracking so easily.

 

Another option if you can access the area from the inside is a layer of underwater epoxy repair putty (Screwfix or similar) just on the crack, let it cure, dry everything off to just surface damp and then a thick layer of spray foam insulation. This should bond well to a damp surface and will flex a bit so shouldn’t fail too fast. Well known fix for leaking wooden boats.

 

Long term repair:

 

Unlike steel boats where welding patches is quick, you will need to grind out the damage and fill in layers - see YouTube videos ( Cruising the Cut’s transom repair videos show a level of detail from a novice). That means craning out as you would need too long in a dry dock. Places I know of are the Fazeley end of the Birmingham and Fazeley (just south of Fazeley Mill) and Caggy’s yard on the Old Main Line.

 

Good luck.

 

Alec

Edited March 2 by agg221

[Tony Brooks]

If it is sinking then the crack is below the waterline, and unless the boat comes out of the water I can think of NO way to do an even half decent repair. You certainly can't glass over it with water coming in.

 

As a very temporary bodge leak stopper you could try mastic tape applied to the outside or Flashband, but I would not hold out much hope. You can also get two part "filler" that is supposed to work underwater. I would fear that engine vibration may open the crack up - especially if this is an outboard or outdrive mounted on the transom.

 

I fear this sounds terminal and time to scrap it, but if you can get it out of the water you could then grind out the crack, fill with epoxy filler and then, after cleaning and abrading the surfaces, applying several layers of chopped strand glass mat and resin to BOTH sides of the hull, inside and outside. DIY glass fibre work is perfectly DIYable, but this is structural.

 

Boats with flat transoms can suffer from the corners being scraped along hard banks as they try to pull away and eventually that will wear a hole at the corner, That would be less structural, but I don't like the sound of a crack and the transom separating, because usually the hull and transom is moulded in one piece.

[Stroudwater1]

I’m no expert on GRP at all but certainly as a temporary seal milliput can be iuseful. 
 

It’s a solid epoxy that comes in two cylinders mix with fingers  the same length of each and stick in place. 
 

others may advise differently

 

The only place I can think on the Birmingham and Fazeley would be the yard near by Drayton manor just Birmingham way from Fazeley Mill, they have a crane there I believe that could lift the boat out. Alternatively turn round and head for Streethay wharf on the Coventry towards Fradley (as you mention the other way is closed currently. 

[nicknorman]

“Debbie’s Day Boats” near Fazeley is the only option on the Birmingham and Fazeley and there isn’t anything in central Birmingham that I can think of, so IMO best bet is to turn back to Debbie’s where the owner Mark is pretty helpful and can lift the boat out.
 

Which stoppage (canal closure) were you concerned about, I can’t immediately see one starting soon?

[PaulJ]

Can you see (and get to) where the water is coming in from the inside?

If so then I would shape a bit of wood to closely fit and overlap that section and glue down with plenty of CT1. Wedge the patch securely in place however you can- battens, brackets etc.

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

“Debbie’s Day Boats” near Fazeley is the only option on the Birmingham and Fazeley and there isn’t anything in central Birmingham that I can think of, so IMO best bet is to turn back to Debbie’s where the owner Mark is pretty helpful and can lift the boat out.
 

Which stoppage (canal closure) were you concerned about, I can’t immediately see one starting soon?

That is exactly what I was going to recommend. You could be there in a day.

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

“Debbie’s Day Boats” near Fazeley is the only option on the Birmingham and Fazeley and there isn’t anything in central Birmingham that I can think of, so IMO best bet is to turn back to Debbie’s where the owner Mark is pretty helpful and can lift the boat out.

Agreed. You need to get the boat out of the water pronto. That is more important than getting to your mooring - as Nick says there isn't really anywhere in or close to central Birmingham to sort this.

Once out of the water you can properly inspect the damage and get the boat surveyed. And, to be frank, decide whether or not it is worth the cost, time and effort to repair the damage, or whether it would be better to write the whole project off as a bad (and expensive) mistake.

I hope, for your daughter's sake, it doesn't come to that. But ageing fibreglass cruisers are never going to be worth that much, no matter how much you spend on repairs and refitting. And most, without a lot of work, do not make ideal liveaboards.

Many of us on the forum are in our middle or later years and of sufficient means to cope with the problems our boats throw at us. But quite a few of us started out as enthusiastic but fairly impoverished youngsters, and still bear the scars of our earlier years of boat ownership!

Good luck to you and your daughter!

[Laurie Booth]

Sherborne Wharf/Hockley Port Dry Dock

 

 

Sherborne Wharf/Hockley Port Dry Dock | National Historic Ships

 

Edited March 2 by Laurie Booth

[Francis Herne]

A week in drydock probably isn't enough to do anything but a short-term patch.

 

If it's a smallish cruiser, getting the boat pulled out on a trailer might well be cheaper than booking a crane. I believe there's a slipway at Hockley Port, don't know if there's one in the Fazeley area.

 

Being a shallow and light vessel, you might be able to get the affected corner out of the water by winching it up off some convenient bridge/wall/tree and/or ballasting down the opposite corner. That would at least  let you have a look at the problem.

 

[LadyG]

18 minutes ago, Francis Herne said:

A week in drydock probably isn't enough to do anything but a short-term patch.

 

If it's a smallish cruiser, getting the boat pulled out on a trailer might well be cheaper than booking a crane. I believe there's a slipway at Hockley Port, don't know if there's one in the Fazeley area.

 

Being a shallow and light vessel, you might be able to get the affected corner out of the water by winching it up off some convenient bridge/wall/tree and/or ballasting down the opposite corner. That would at least  let you have a look at the problem.

 

I dont think OP has much of a clue about repairs, but I think we all know it needs to come out, be dried out  cut back to a sound surface then repaired. While glassing the hull is probably relatively simple for a boatyard, it's not likely that they will manage it themselves, and no one would want to do it on the cut.

 

 

Edited March 2 by LadyG

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Laurie Booth said:

Sherborne Wharf/Hockley Port Dry Dock

 

 

Sherborne Wharf/Hockley Port Dry Dock | National Historic Ships

 

It rather depends where on the B&F they are. Minworth and below I would go back

[Chris Yearsley]

1 hour ago, Francis Herne said:

A week in drydock probably isn't enough to do anything but a short-term patch.

 

If it's a smallish cruiser, getting the boat pulled out on a trailer might well be cheaper than booking a crane. I believe there's a slipway at Hockley Port, don't know if there's one in the Fazeley area.

 

 

Everyone, thank you so much for the helpful and informative advice. I'm still in crisis but progressing a little and this news particularly makes a difference. I had thought that a couple of days out of water would do, but... more than a week? Ouch. Not drydock then. I have found a professional willing to visit and attempt a bodge epoxy patch in the water, with more skill than I posess. Then they're willing to undertake major fibreglass rebuild work - if we can get the boat out of the water (WR Composites, their website looks very convincing and they were super kind on the phone). So getting dry is the problem.

 

Debbies Day Boats say they can't get a GRP boat out of the water.

I've not managed to connect with Caggy's Yard yet but maybe they can help.

Sherborne Wharf / Hockley has closed its website and is uncontactable. Out of business? A shame as we have paid for a permanent residential mooring at Hockley so it's where we were aiming for in the first place! Anyway a week++ drydock would probably not be available for a long time anyway apart from the expense

 

Is 27 feet too long for a trailer pull? Where might I rent a trailer & tow? Maybe I need a transport company to road it to WRComposites after sending them loads of pictures enough for a firm quotation? When I considered buying a boat far away I was quoted £1.5 - 2k to transport it so I guess even with a very short distance the cost would be similar. Not ideal but if there's no other choice...

[nicknorman]

2 hours ago, Laurie Booth said:

Sherborne Wharf/Hockley Port Dry Dock

 

 

Sherborne Wharf/Hockley Port Dry Dock | National Historic Ships

 

 

I note that the Sherborne Wharf website is dead. Not sure why.

[Chris Yearsley]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

I hope, for your daughter's sake, it doesn't come to that. But ageing fibreglass cruisers are never going to be worth that much, no matter how much you spend on repairs and refitting. And most, without a lot of work, do not make ideal liveaboards.

Many of us on the forum are in our middle or later years and of sufficient means to cope with the problems our boats throw at us. But quite a few of us started out as enthusiastic but fairly impoverished youngsters, and still bear the scars of our earlier years of boat ownership!

Good luck to you and your daughter!

Thank you, yes indeed. I'd budgeted to support her with a rewire with some good Victron kit, and a webasto or similar, and residential mooring with shore power is paid for and waiting for her. She's very eager and practical and was planning attending an engine maintenance course and repairing and refitting the cabins herself while on board. I'd promised to pay for an full engine service, signed the boat up to RCR at 'gold' level, and rather thought that would get things off to a good start. She wanted a challenge, an adventure. Never imagined we'd fail so hard on the very first voyage. 

[Chris Yearsley]

Thank you everyone for your ongoing friendly and nonjudgemental messages. It's not a happy message thread so I'll lift the mood and share an amusing, strange story where some good came out of all of this.

 

Few days ago the boat had broken down and was leaking and we were very sad. Walked to Star City for food down a dark and dodgy towpath and on our way back we found a gentleman who had, only moments before, been assaulted while out walking and been pushed into the canal. We rescued him and looked after him while the shock wore off and made sure he could get home safely. While chatting, as he recovered, it turned out he was a yachtsman himself and just from our chat knew exactly what had happened to our engine and how to fix.

 

Many things get thrown into canals and have to be pulled out. Beer cans. Shopping trolleys. And, apparently, friendly marine experts, also.

 

If our boat had not suffered all these problems, nobody would have been there for him. 

[Alan de Enfield]

34 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

 

I note that the Sherborne Wharf website is dead. Not sure why.

 

It certainly shows as "Domain name available"

[Ex Brummie]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

I dont think OP has much of a clue about repairs, but I think we all know it needs to come out, be dried out  cut back to a sound surface then repaired. While glassing the hull is probably relatively simple for a boatyard, it's not likely that they will manage it themselves, and no one would want to do it on the cut.

 

 

When I was much younger, broke and inexperienced, and with a motor cycle licence, I bought a Reliant Regal from which some individual managed to remove one of the front wing/bumper. I succesfully managed to rebuild it after some judicious reading, and achieved a more than passable result. If the OP can get the corner dry, then it need not be too problematic. If the split can be identified from inside, a temporary plug of wet setting epoxy can be applied, the the surrounding area inside well prepared can be internally patched. U Tube is your friend.

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

While glassing the hull is probably relatively simple for a boatyard,

That may once have been true. But with steel narrowboats now dominating I'm not sure that most canalside yards have the skills for GRP repair any more. Not that they couldn't, just that they don't, since the demand is not there. A few years back I knew someone looking to get some minor damage to a GRP dayboat fixed in the south Birmingham area, and they couldn't find anyone willing to take on the job.

What the OP needs is someone like Wayne who used to be a member here, who documented some epic repairs to a grp boat on a trailer in his driveway. But he has been quiet for a long time, and was based in the northwest, miles from Birmingham.

May have more luck in the sports/power boat sector, but would probably have to pay sports/power boat prices, and I don't think that's an option for the OP.

[Tonka]

What about Arrowcraft at Sneyd Wharf on the Curly Whirley. They build composite kayaks so definitely have the skills to do a repair but no way of getting the boat out near them.

 

I have used West Systems Epoxy to do do carbon patches and carbon kevlor patches on my daughters slalom kayak when she used to race internationally 

[blackrose]

I once did a temporary repair from the inside with the boat in the water on a leaking steel dinghy with old pieces of carpet smothered with polyurethane based sealant and then pushed against the hole with plywood behind and a stick jammed against the ply to keep the pressure on it.

 

There are some good PU sealants available from Screwfix and Toolstation: Stixall, CT-1, Sticks like Sh*t, OB-1, etc, etc. I think they can all be stuck to wet surfaces and can cure underwater, but check the product specs. These will be much easier to use than stiff epoxy putty or the West System epoxy resin.

Edited March 2 by blackrose

[Tony Brooks]

I am sorry, but some of these well-meaning posts don't seem to appreciate that the transoms on some boats have to take all the prop thrust plus any extra stress that may happen when the outdrive or outboard leg gets caught on something. As the OP has not told us much about the boat I fear some suggestions may not produce a repair of sufficient structural strength, although most would probably provide a temporary fix. I say this having seen the whole transom pulled off a small RP boat when the outboard hit a submerged object on the Thames.

 

If this is an inboard engine on a shaft then the structural strength needed of any repair will be less than either an outboard hung off the transom, or an outdrive bolted to it.

 

@Chris Yearsley If you don't know what I am on about post a photo of the back of the boat in question.

[Alan de Enfield]

This is wonderful stuff but I'm not sure it would give a structural fix to hold a transom.

 

Available in the UK from good chandlers

 

 

 

Edited March 2 by Alan de Enfield

[Chris Yearsley]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am sorry, but some of these well-meaning posts don't seem to appreciate that the transoms on some boats have to take all the prop thrust plus any extra stress that may happen when the outdrive or outboard leg gets caught on something.

I'd not thought of that. It's an (Enfield?) outdrive ("Z drive"?). I was wondering how we could have caused so much damage when pulling away from the bank, without noticing it. And the damage goes high up. I wasn't on the boat much on the voyage as I worked all the locks and often got off at narrow bridges to help push away in case my daughter's rather uncertain steering caused issues. She did say that at one point the boat seemed to hit something underwater, hard, but keep going. And there's certainly an old repair inside that corner - so it's weaker than it was designed to be. 

 

The pictures below show the (lower part of) the damage now, amd how much better the boat looked when my daughter bought it. She has been tremendously upset thinking it's all her fault, but if the boat had a weak repair, and then the outdrive hit something, then could it just be tremendous bad luck? I thought I'd read that the outdrive was supposed to kick up if it hit an obstruction, but it's very old and if it's corroded maybe it doesn't move like it should?

 

It leaks much more when the engine is running. Even with a patch repair I don't want to take it far at all.  Caggys yard is 9 miles, if they get back to me with the ability to help that would be best. For the in-water patch repair, and also the dry full rebuild of the damage, these guys are very friendly and helpful, I just need to find a way to get it dry somewhere for them to work on. Probably not cheap but I'm beyond being fussy and I think this is a problem that needs good, then quick, as the priorities. https://wrcomposites.co.uk/repairs-and-modifications/

29 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

This is wonderful stuff but I'm not sure it would give a structural fix to hold a transom.

 

Available in the UK from good chandlers

True but it's flexible so maybe a good addition to something that is stronger. Quick Google isn't finding it but, I did find old forum posts saying it seems like rebadged plumber's putty. It does look like it. So, latest plan for the temporary in-water patch:

The WRComposites guy to come and apply water-setting epoxy putty to the outside and offer general expert advice. If he doesn't do anything to the inside, Plumbers Mait generously over the interior area. Then we can sail Very Carefully to.... a place I've not worked out yet that can get it out of the water.