Lithium batteries

[Memories]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

As I quoted the actual BSS document, there is no question as to me being 'right or wrong'.

 

I am correct !

So Alan, 

 

The electrics are one element of the BSS, the gas system is another, what else?

 

As I understand it, not saying I know, the BSS is more for the safety of others than the viability of the boat, so anything that may effect towpath users and other boater, so carbon monoxide, leaks of oil or fuel, dangerous gas lines or lockers, dangerous purtruding fittings or metal.... What else?

 

I ask you simply because you seem up to speed given your last post.

 

This is a genuine question not a trap or sarcastic comment.

 

It will give me a heads up so maybe get it all sorted before June.

 

Is it also true that, unlike a car, you can not have a bed prior to its anniversary or due date?

[Memories]

41 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

It looks to me as if you will need two hefty bus bars to make the sundry connections to that seem all over the battery, but once that is done and the batteries  rewired it will all look a lot simpler and easier to understand.

 

Bundle of folding money in envelope, what I was trying to allude to in my post about doing friends a favour.

When things start to go bad they just keep getting worse!

 

I just had cause to go into the crawl space under the bow where my water tank is located.

 

It is sopping wet.

 

What else...

..

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, Memories said:

I don't get that?

Money in envelopes 

I.e. backhanders.

[Memories]

47 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

It looks to me as if you will need two hefty bus bars to make the sundry connections to that seem all over the battery, but once that is done and the batteries  rewired it will all look a lot simpler and easier to understand.

 

Bundle of folding money in envelope, what I was trying to allude to in my post about doing friends a favour.

Do plumbers need to be marine registered too, just in case I can't find the leak?

[system 4-50]

29 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Money in envelopes 

I.e. backhanders.

for people who can't afford carrier bags.

[Memories]

4 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

for people who can't afford carrier bags.

I thought it was in brown paper bags or is that exclusively for tramps with their cheapo wine or vodka?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 hour ago, Memories said:

Do plumbers need to be marine registered too, just in case I can't find the leak?

No. There are differences from domestic plumbing.

[Memories]

1 hour ago, Memories said:

When things start to go bad they just keep getting worse!

 

I just had cause to go into the crawl space under the bow where my water tank is located.

 

It is sopping wet.

 

What else...

..

Just went back in the engine room and got a torch down into the battery bay, there is a bar holding three of the batteries in, then at the left hand side there is a strap, or at least one end of a strap, I think maybe that the securing mechanism is in place but not completely connected.

The bar is about two and a bit maybe two and a half inches wide and has bolts securing it, I believe this is the retention bar.

[Memories]

15 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

No. There are differences from domestic plumbing.

The basics are the same though right?, like there is a water cut of tap same as in a house, the pipes are not copper but plastic in my boat, the pipes take feed from the tank when demanded by the pump, so it limits where the water can be coming from, ie: the tank, the connected pipework or the pump, unless I am totally screwed and it is a hole in the deck plating letting water in.

 

I think I can sort the leek....

Unless it's a hole in the deck plating, that's a welder....

[BoatingLifeUpNorth2]

3 hours ago, Memories said:

Introduced through a broker then the seller took over.

 

I didn't do anything to the electrics, that's how it was when I bought the boat.

 

Allegedly, the batteries were new in 2024

 

Probably done post BSS inspection, seen it before, unless a new BSS was done after the 2024 fitting?

 You could always try to contact the BSS inspector as he may still have his report/notes on the inspection. But there’s no point really as it will need to be sorted no matter what. Just put it down to experience, fix and move on. It’s all part of the learning curve when buying a second hand boat unfortunately.

Edited March 1 by BoatingLifeUpNorth2

[Memories]

41 minutes ago, BoatingLifeUpNorth2 said:

Probably done post BSS inspection, seen it before, unless a new BSS was done after the 2024 fitting?

 You could always try to contact the BSS inspector as he may still have his report/notes on the inspection. But there’s no point really as it will need to be sorted no matter what. Just put it down to experience, fix and move on. It’s all part of the learning curve when buying a second hand boat unfortunately.

Yes.....my lack of knowledge didn't help.

 

As I posted a little earlier, I have been back in the battery bay and there is a retaining bar and there is a strap, the strap isn't connected but that's easy enough the bar retains three maybe four of the batteries and I think the strap is supposed to secure them all.

 

The wiring still needs sorting, but that would be done when I swap the batteries out to put lithium in anyway so no extra expense there I suppose.

 

[Tony Brooks]

8 hours ago, Memories said:

there is a retaining bar and there is a strap, the strap isn't connected but that's easy enough the bar retains three maybe four of the batteries and I think the strap is supposed to secure them all.

 

 

Looking at the photos it looks to me as if you will need to pack between the steel bar and batteries with wood to meet the maximum degree of battery movement (1cm?) the BSS allows. It will also give you a chance to reverse that earthing bolt (if it is still needed after the work) so the head is next to the battery. You could then cut or drill the wooden packing to clear the bolt head so the battery can never vibrate against it.

[jonathanA]

12 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

That goes against the standards the BSS themselves have set, like fusing, cable sizes etc. The BSS even gives a minium size for battery cables 25 sq mm CCSA. Absolutely no consistency in regulation or application.

As the forum has noted before some inspectors don't know the rules or have their own interpretation. Only just before Christmas I had a noisy argument with well known North West bss man who was adamant that not having a mains RCD was a fail. When I pointed out that to the best of my knowledge it was an advisory he got quite abusive. Think I spoiled him holding court in Preston Brook midland chandlers....

[Alan de Enfield]

43 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

As the forum has noted before some inspectors don't know the rules or have their own interpretation. Only just before Christmas I had a noisy argument with well known North West bss man who was adamant that not having a mains RCD was a fail. When I pointed out that to the best of my knowledge it was an advisory he got quite abusive. Think I spoiled him holding court in Preston Brook midland chandlers....

 

I had exactly the same argument ith a BSS examiner some years ago, unfirtunatley I had paid in advance so he said you either get a fail, or you install one, send me a photo and I'll issue your 'pass'.

I made a formal complaint to the BSS and all I got in response was "we'll see if he needs more training" never heard anything more.

 

It makes a mockery of the whole system and just confirms it is 'jobs for the boys', all you can do is acceot that it is another meaningless cost of obtaining a licence.

 

 

13 hours ago, Memories said:

I ask you simply because you seem up to speed given your last post.

 

This is a genuine question not a trap or sarcastic comment.

 

Jen posted a link to the BSS requirements above. Read, absorb and be prepared to argue with the examiner.

 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/joyda0tx/bss-complete-ecps-private-boat-public-version-2023.pdf

 

13 hours ago, Memories said:

Is it also true that, unlike a car, you can not have a bed prior to its anniversary or due date?

 

No - you can have it tested 1 month prior to expiry, and, it is advisable to do so, as if something needs fixing you can get it done before your boat becomes unlicenced (no BSS = no Licence)

Edited March 2 by Alan de Enfield

[jonathanA]

34 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No - you can have it tested 1 month prior to expiry, and, it is advisable to do so, as if something needs fixing you can get it done before your boat becomes unlicenced (no BSS = no Licence)

I'm not sure if there is maximum time before expiry, but CRT say 'best done two months prior to expiry"  so clearly up to two months before is allowed. 

 

Oh and if anyone wants to know the name of the inspector in the North West who doesn't know the rules PM me. I won't name him publicly here as that's not fair, but if your looking in Cheshire,Lancashire and Manchester areas I would avoid him.

[Tony Brooks]

36 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

I won't name him publicly here as that's not fair,

 

I disagree, the BSS seems unwilling to do anything about his conduct, so the only way to get it changed is publicity. By not naming him you are also facilitating new boaters getting such decisons.

[Lady M]

A bit like the MOT, where it is one month in advance, you can retain your BSS renewal date when the new one is done no more than two months in advance.

[Memories]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Looking at the photos it looks to me as if you will need to pack between the steel bar and batteries with wood to meet the maximum degree of battery movement (1cm?) the BSS allows. It will also give you a chance to reverse that earthing bolt (if it is still needed after the work) so the head is next to the battery. You could then cut or drill the wooden packing to clear the bolt head so the battery can never vibrate against it.

Oh okay.

 

Sounds straight forward enough, but seeing how my luck is going it probably won't be.

 

Thanks though.

[Memories]

1 hour ago, jonathanA said:

I'm not sure if there is maximum time before expiry, but CRT say 'best done two months prior to expiry"  so clearly up to two months before is allowed. 

 

Oh and if anyone wants to know the name of the inspector in the North West who doesn't know the rules PM me. I won't name him publicly here as that's not fair, but if your looking in Cheshire,Lancashire and Manchester areas I would avoid him.

Fortunately?? I am in Yorkshire.

 

[jonathanA]

1 hour ago, Memories said:

Fortunately?? I am in Yorkshire.

 

oh i'm so sorry for you 🙂  we all have our crosses to bear.... 🤣😂

 

as a lancastrian, when i lived in Leeds i used to say i was on missionary work...  

 

(Note : for those lacking a sense of humour this is called banter, no offense implied or intended.... )

 

 

 

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Looking at the photos it looks to me as if you will need to pack between the steel bar and batteries with wood to meet the maximum degree of battery movement (1cm?) the BSS allows. It will also give you a chance to reverse that earthing bolt (if it is still needed after the work) so the head is next to the battery. You could then cut or drill the wooden packing to clear the bolt head so the battery can never vibrate against it.

Just be aware that if you are going to replace those lead acid batteries with lithiums, the new batteries are likely to be a different size (and possibly a different number to give the required capacity) so will need different support and restraint arrangements.

Ideally, if time, budget and installer resources allow, you would remove the existing batteries and wiring first, then get any hull cleaning, brackets/battery supports, restraint attachment points etc. welding on and painting done (all to suit the new lithium battery dimensions), then fit the lithiums and new wiring.

Which means deciding on your new battery requirements before doing anything else.

Edited March 2 by David Mack

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Memories said:

Fortunately?? I am in Yorkshire.

 

 

Isn't that where the locals have short arms and very deep pockets ?

[jonathanA]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I disagree, the BSS seems unwilling to do anything about his conduct, so the only way to get it changed is publicity. By not naming him you are also facilitating new boaters getting such decisons.

fair enough , if i had paid him i would, but as it was a 'conversation' (although somewhat heated) I won't. Although he did play the  'are you a BSS inspector because I am' card...  which just showed what an A-hole he was. 

[Memories]

1 hour ago, jonathanA said:

oh i'm so sorry for you 🙂  we all have our crosses to bear.... 🤣😂

 

as a lancastrian, when i lived in Leeds i used to say i was on missionary work...  

 

(Note : for those lacking a sense of humour this is called banter, no offense implied or intended.... )

 

 

 

Being a Leeds lad originally myself, I would have said your 'missionary' work would have been better suited to Bradford..... 🤣😂😅

[Memories]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Isn't that where the locals have short arms and very deep pockets ?

We in Yorkshire tend to be frugal...tight is what everyone wants isn't it?😱