Lithium batteries

[Memories]

32 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

apart from the mess of spaghetti, just thought to mention that unless you can find a way of restraining those batteries you will get a BSS fail.

 

 

 

 

Also, unless the batteries are normally covered by a 'lid' then you will have another failure of the BSS as the terminals are not covered.

 

 

I do not dispute what you say as I don't know if you are right or wrong, but my question would be.....

So how did it pass last time?

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Memories said:

I posted the pics, hope they help, I have four not three leisure batteries and the starter which I believe is the black one.

 

Well, yes and no, the designation Hankook XL31 does not now appear on their EU website, but vendors sites state it is a 130Ah battery. However, you seem to have one that is a bit smaller than the others. Other similar looking Hankook battery ranges give option of between 90Ah and 100Ah, so for your purposes it should be near enough to say you had, when new, around 450Ah of battery capacity.  As someone explained, it is generally found that you can have a lesser Li capacity. I am sure Gary will discuss this with you and advise.

 

It is definitely a nominal 12V system

 

I can see why you are not happy with the electrics in the battery area, so a good chance to get it sorted and compliant with the BSS.

 

I note the white "powder" close to the engine battery. that looks horribly like the result of acid spillage, and if so it needs cleaning off and washing with a hot strong alkaline solution to neutralise any residual acid and when dry prime and paint. Bicarbonate of soda will do. Do not get any of the powder on your cloths or in your eye because it will burn holes in cloths and sting like hell in the eye.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Memories said:

I do not dispute what you say as I don't know if you are right or wrong, but my question would be.....

So how did it pass last time?

 

 

The mysteries of how the BSS operates and the lack of enforced standard the examiners seem to work to. I do not like the thin negative cables and think they may be smaller than the BSS minimum, but can't be sure. It is the lack of any form of containment or hold down straps that I don't understand if it passed in that state. it is definitely contrary to best practice and the standards the RCD/RCR say should be adhered to, but your boat may be pre 1997/8 and so outside the scope of the RCD/RCR.

Edited March 1 by Tony Brooks

[Memories]

6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Well, yes and no, the designation Hankook XL31 does not now appear on their EU website, but vendors sites state it is a 130Ah battery. However, you seem to have one that is a bit smaller than the others. Other similar looking Hankook battery ranges give option of between 90Ah and 100Ah, so for your purposes it should be near enough to say you had, when new, around 450Ah of battery capacity.  As someone explained, it is generally found that you can have a lesser Li capacity. I am sure Gary will discuss this with you and advise.

 

It is definitely a nominal 12V system

 

I can see why you are not happy with the electrics in the battery area, so a good chance to get it sorted and compliant with the BSS.

 

I note the white "powder" close to the engine battery. that looks horribly like the result of acid spillage, and if so it needs cleaning off and washing with a hot strong alkaline solution to neutralise any residual acid and when dry prime and paint. Bicarbonate of soda will do. Do not get any of the powder on your cloths or in your eye because it will burn holes in cloths and sting like hell in the eye.

 

 

I did say that I got ripped off by the last owner, the BSS was the main reason I bought the bag at, I later found the gas lockers were not legal either, cost me 2 grand to get them sorted.

 

I can't understand how it could have passed with these defects🤔

[Memories]

11 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Well, yes and no, the designation Hankook XL31 does not now appear on their EU website, but vendors sites state it is a 130Ah battery. However, you seem to have one that is a bit smaller than the others. Other similar looking Hankook battery ranges give option of between 90Ah and 100Ah, so for your purposes it should be near enough to say you had, when new, around 450Ah of battery capacity.  As someone explained, it is generally found that you can have a lesser Li capacity. I am sure Gary will discuss this with you and advise.

 

It is definitely a nominal 12V system

 

I can see why you are not happy with the electrics in the battery area, so a good chance to get it sorted and compliant with the BSS.

 

I note the white "powder" close to the engine battery. that looks horribly like the result of acid spillage, and if so it needs cleaning off and washing with a hot strong alkaline solution to neutralise any residual acid and when dry prime and paint. Bicarbonate of soda will do. Do not get any of the powder on your cloths or in your eye because it will burn holes in cloths and sting like hell in the eye.

 

 

 

 

The mysteries of how the BSS operates and the lack of enforced standard the examiners seem to work to. I do not like the thin negative cables and think they may be smaller than the BSS minimum, but can't be sure. It is the lack of any form of containment or hold down straps that I don't understand if it passed in that state. it is definitely contrary to best practice and the standards the RCD/RCR say should be adhered to, but your boat may be pre 1997/8 and so outside the scope of the RCD/RCR.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

it is definitely contrary to best practice and the standards the RCD/RCR say should be adhered to, but your boat may be pre 1997/8 and so outside the scope of the RCD/RCR.

 

It is way out of specification for the BSS.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Memories said:

So how did it pass last time?

 

A lot of bad workmanship, and ignorant DIY can happen in 4 years.

 

Even a ratchet strap across the top of the batteries will do for the retention.

[Memories]

No the boat is an 05 marketed as an 06,

 

I'm having it out of the water this year and dreading what I will find tbh..

[Memories]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It is way out of specification for the BSS.

 

 

 

A lot of bad workmanship, and ignorant DIY can happen in 4 years.

 

Even a ratchet strap across the top of the batteries will do for the retention.

I will get it sorted. I have no option.

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, Memories said:

I do not dispute what you say as I don't know if you are right or wrong,

 

As I quoted the actual BSS document, there is no question as to me being 'right or wrong'.

 

I am correct !

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, Memories said:

I can't understand how it could have passed with these defects🤔

 

The BSS always seem to side with the examiner when customers complain about what look like open and shut cases of incorrect decisions. In my view this encourages a less than diligent inspection. Then there is the "lets not look too closely at a friends boat" type thing.

 

If you were to complain, and I don't think that would be wise, the BSS office will come back and say the boat was fine at the time of the previous test. 

[Wafi]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Even a ratchet strap across the top of the batteries will do for the retention.

Though I'd also put the forward-most battery (left hand side on the photo) in a proper tray rather than balancing it on the corner of the swim...

 

As others have indicated, these issues are all sortable, and probably best tackled together.

[alias]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Even a ratchet strap across the top of the batteries will do for the retention.

 

There's a multicoloured piece of webbing with a clip on the end partly under the engine battery...

[Wafi]

2 minutes ago, alias said:

 

There's a multicoloured piece of webbing with a clip on the end partly under the engine battery...

Which hopefully didn't suffer too much from the potential battery acid spillage.

[Memories]

10 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

The BSS always seem to side with the examiner when customers complain about what look like open and shut cases of incorrect decisions. In my view this encourages a less than diligent inspection. Then there is the "lets not look too closely at a friends boat" type thing.

 

If you were to complain, and I don't think that would be wise, the BSS office will come back and say the boat was fine at the time of the previous test. 

Yes I agree.

 

Without going into previous posts, it's like a car MOT after 3 months, no come back...

 

I have other ways of redressing the balance.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

For future reference, it is a good idea to familiarise yourself with the Private Boat BSS requirements. Makes sure that any changes to the boat should pass and prevent unpleasant surprises at test time. 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/joyda0tx/bss-complete-ecps-private-boat-public-version-2023.pdf

[Memories]

21 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

The BSS always seem to side with the examiner when customers complain about what look like open and shut cases of incorrect decisions. In my view this encourages a less than diligent inspection. Then there is the "lets not look too closely at a friends boat" type thing.

 

If you were to complain, and I don't think that would be wise, the BSS office will come back and say the boat was fine at the time of the previous test. 

With the way this is going, I think I might as well get the batteries pulled out and sort the battery bay at the same time as installing the Li batteries, that way, I think maybe the extra expense will only be the new batteries as the bay needs sorting the cables need sorting and the restraining straps need installing.

What a bloody nightmare.....

 

Thanks for your help everyone.

[Memories]

5 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

For future reference, it is a good idea to familiarise yourself with the Private Boat BSS requirements. Makes sure that any changes to the boat should pass and prevent unpleasant surprises at test time. 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/joyda0tx/bss-complete-ecps-private-boat-public-version-2023.pdf

Well I know the gas system is good, it cost me enough.

 

I know the engine is good, had it checked, 

 

Electrics.....well.... partly my fault due to my severe aversion.

 

What other major issues are set to raise their ugly heads is currently in the lap of the boating gods....

[BoatingLifeUpNorth2]

Why are all the battery leads connected to the terminal tightening bolts and not the terminal stud? Just bad installation. The batteries look fairly new.

7 minutes ago, Memories said:

With the way this is going, I think I might as well get the batteries pulled out and sort the battery bay at the same time as installing the Li batteries, that way, I think maybe the extra expense will only be the new batteries as the bay needs sorting the cables need sorting and the restraining straps need installing.

What a bloody nightmare.....

 

Thanks for your help everyone.

Did you buy the boat privately or through a broker?

[GUMPY]

47 minutes ago, Memories said:

 

I can't understand how it could have passed with these defects🤔

 

 

💷  In ✉️

[Memories]

39 minutes ago, BoatingLifeUpNorth2 said:

Why are all the battery leads connected to the terminal tightening bolts and not the terminal stud? Just bad installation. The batteries look fairly new.

Did you buy the boat privately or through a broker?

Introduced through a broker then the seller took over.

 

I didn't do anything to the electrics, that's how it was when I bought the boat.

 

Allegedly, the batteries were new in 2024

 

[Memories]

40 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

 

 

💷  In ✉️

I don't get that?

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Memories said:

With the way this is going, I think I might as well get the batteries pulled out and sort the battery bay at the same time as installing the Li

 

It looks to me as if you will need two hefty bus bars to make the sundry connections to that seem all over the battery, but once that is done and the batteries  rewired it will all look a lot simpler and easier to understand.

23 minutes ago, Memories said:

I don't get that?

 

Bundle of folding money in envelope, what I was trying to allude to in my post about doing friends a favour.

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Well, yes and no, the designation Hankook XL31 does not now appear on their EU website, but vendors sites state it is a 130Ah battery. However, you seem to have one that is a bit smaller than the others. Other similar looking Hankook battery ranges give option of between 90Ah and 100Ah, so for your purposes it should be near enough to say you had, when new, around 450Ah of battery capacity.  As someone explained, it is generally found that you can have a lesser Li capacity. I am sure Gary will discuss this with you and advise.

 

It is definitely a nominal 12V system

 

I can see why you are not happy with the electrics in the battery area, so a good chance to get it sorted and compliant with the BSS.

 

 

The mysteries of how the BSS operates and the lack of enforced standard the examiners seem to work to. I do not like the thin negative cables and think they may be smaller than the BSS minimum, but can't be sure. It is the lack of any form of containment or hold down straps 

When I had my last BSC the examiner told me the Boat Safety training (an official training course ( told him to ignore electrics, which is probably why it was ignored. 

They are not experts in everything, just people who have a few qualifications and experience.

Edited March 1 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, LadyG said:

When I had my last BSC the examiner told me the Boat Safety training told him to ignore electrics, which is probably why it was ignored. 

 

That goes against the standards the BSS themselves have set, like fusing, cable sizes etc. The BSS even gives a minium size for battery cables 25 sq mm CCSA. Absolutely no consistency in regulation or application.

[Memories]

13 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

It looks to me as if you will need two hefty bus bars to make the sundry connections to that seem all over the battery, but once that is done and the batteries  rewired it will all look a lot simpler and easier to understand.

 

Bundle of folding money in envelope, what I was trying to allude to in my post about doing friends a favour.

Yes..

 

Well...what goes around comes around..

[Memories]

15 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

It looks to me as if you will need two hefty bus bars to make the sundry connections to that seem all over the battery, but once that is done and the batteries  rewired it will all look a lot simpler and easier to understand.

 

Bundle of folding money in envelope, what I was trying to allude to in my post about doing friends a favour.

I reckon Gary should know what needs doing and how to sorted it. 🤞