Cracked hearth wall tiles

[RickS]

I am expecting a barrage of abuse for what I am about to ask 😊 but here goes.

The wall tiles surrounding my log burner are quite tatty and chipped in places and I was intending to pull them all out and rebuild this Summer. However, I have noticed that a couple of them are pushing away from the wall and the grout is crumbling. It is difficult to do the job now, so I was wondering if I tape over the joints of the offending tiles with aluminium foil tape (and I mean, a lot)) will that hold hold for the next few weeks whilst I am likely to have a fire?

I know what I am expecting by way of answers, but also hoping that it might be OK as a temporary bodge without being dangerous

Cheers

[LadyG]

Sounds as though they are too close to the stove. I believe that the backboard should be fire resistant, if timber rather than silicate, it may ignite, even if it has been like that for years.

Search on the site for advice.

a bodge is not a good plan imho 

Edited February 25 by LadyG

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Sounds as though they are too close to the stove. I believe that the backboard should be fire resistant, if timber rather than silicon, it may ignite.

Search on the site for advice.

a bodge is not a good plan imho 

This. If they are coming away, there is something going on behind them. Ideally there should be a Calcium Silicate board under the tiles and an air gap behind that. Tiles direct on to plywood is not a good idea, despite being how it was done on many boats. Pyrolisis of wood has lead to boat fires and loss of life. See https://www.gov.uk/maib-reports/fire-on-narrow-boat-lindy-lou-at-lyme-view-marina-adlington-england-with-1-person-injured-and-loss-of-1-life

 

This isn't something to temporarily bodge, if that is what is going on. 

 

[David Mack]

I agree with previous posts. How close is the nearest part of the stove to the tiles?  Putting flammable tape close to the stove doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

[Tony Brooks]

14 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I agree with previous posts. How close is the nearest part of the stove to the tiles?  Putting flammable tape close to the stove doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

 

I know aluminium will burn if got hot enough, but I can't see a stove doing that. I suppose the adhesive is flammable, but as long as the OP uses long runs of tape to allow the aluminium to conduct some of the heat away from the hottest spots and does not use loads of layers to minimise the volume of adhesive involved I think the idea might be OK for the short term as long as the OP keeps an eye on the stove temperature.

 

Funny thing is that I have been disposing of the off cuts of the calcium silica board I used on our boat. I have one piece left a bit over 2' 6" tall by 2'. If it is any use    to the OP I can measure it tomorrow, but it will need collecting from Reading.  

[ditchcrawler]

I would stand a metal tray between the stove and the tiles to reflect the heat away

[Tony Brooks]

22 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Funny thing is that I have been disposing of the off cuts of the calcium silica board I used on our boat. I have one piece left a bit over 2' 6" tall by 2'. If it is any use    to the OP I can measure it tomorrow, but it will need collecting from Reading.  

 

 I think I also have a sheet of thin stainless steel that is a little larger, that I used to cover the wooden bulkhead and cabin side around the cooker. I will measure tomorrow in anyone is interested.

Edited February 25 by Tony Brooks

[jonathanA]

I had something similar a few years ago and the previous owner had used silicon sealant to stick some of the tiles back on to 'plywood' and to 'grout' the loose tiles.   It lasted quite a few years but a bit like the OP once i saw how crap they were i stripped the lot out and put fireproof board behind etc.  Despite the stove being close to the tiles and only being held on with tile adhesive and/or silicone sealant direct to the boat ply lining,  there was no evidence of pryolisis.  (I'm not for one moment saying its not a problem/doesn't exist).  I should point out that this is leisure use, might have been a different story if we had been liveaboards of course.

 

If the OP can't see any evidence of charred wood then I think Tony is right, careful use of aluminium tape and I would add, possibly one of the sealant adhesives  (CT1, sikaflex etc) to stop the tiles becoming more loose/falling off should be ok IMHO.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

I know aluminium will burn if got hot enough, but I can't see a stove doing that. I suppose the adhesive is flammable, but as long as the OP uses long runs of tape to allow the aluminium to conduct some of the heat away from the hottest spots and does not use loads of layers to minimise the volume of adhesive involved I think the idea might be OK for the short term as long as the

Is the tape the OP is proposing to use actually metallic aluminium? Or is it some sort of aluminised plastic film with adhesive backing?

[Tony Brooks]

39 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Is the tape the OP is proposing to use actually metallic aluminium? Or is it some sort of aluminised plastic film with adhesive backing?

 

I assume it is the self-adhesive aluminium tape that is used to seal but joints in insulation boards like Kingspan. Apart from small rolls of silver sellotape I have not seen tape such as you describe. The self adhesive tape for insulation seems thicker then kitchen foil.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, jonathanA said:

I had something similar a few years ago and the previous owner had used silicon sealant to stick some of the tiles back on to 'plywood' and to 'grout' the loose tiles.   It lasted quite a few years but a bit like the OP once i saw how crap they were i stripped the lot out and put fireproof board behind etc.  Despite the stove being close to the tiles and only being held on with tile adhesive and/or silicone sealant direct to the boat ply lining,  there was no evidence of pryolisis.  (I'm not for one moment saying its not a problem/doesn't exist).  I should point out that this is leisure use, might have been a different story if we had been liveaboards of course.

 

If the OP can't see any evidence of charred wood then I think Tony is right, careful use of aluminium tape and I would add, possibly one of the sealant adhesives  (CT1, sikaflex etc) to stop the tiles becoming more loose/falling off should be ok IMHO.

Had it happen to a friend, went to the theatre, came back late at bight to a boat full of smoke. Thankfully a couple of buckets of water fixed it, but that was chard behind lots of the tiles when it was stripped out . Professionally fitted boat from about 1980-90

[Tonka]

Is the backing board asbestos?

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, Tonka said:

Is the backing board asbestos?

Err, you mean that stuff that causes people to die of emphysema, and was pretty much banned 45 years ago?

Edited February 26 by LadyG

[Tonka]

8 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Err, you mean that stuff that causes people to die of emphysema, and was pretty much banned 45 years ago?

So why is if killing more people today then it did in the peak.

[IanD]

20 minutes ago, Tonka said:

So why is if killing more people today then it did in the peak.

It's not any more, as a quick search shows -- this is from the very first link returned... 🙂 

 

Death rates carried on rising until about 2018 due to past exposure and the long time it takes to kill people. But the rates have been falling since 2018 and are projected to carry on falling, because the people who were exposed are dying off.

 

Edited February 26 by IanD

[cuthound]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

It's not.

 

Death rates carried on rising until about 2018 due to past exposure and the long time it takes to kill people. But the rates have been falling since 2018 and are projected to carry on falling, because the people who were exposed are dying off.

 

 

Still affecting a lot of people though 

 

Two of my ex-BT colleagues were diagnosed last year and one has since died.

 

It prompted me to go for a lung scan, which fortunately came out clear.

[IanD]

Just now, cuthound said:

 

Still affecting a lot of people though 

 

Two of my ex-BT colleagues were diagnosed last year and one has since died.

 

It prompted me to go for a lung scan, which fortunately came out clear.

Yes it's still the biggest cause of workplace-related deaths in the UK, as the site I got that from shows.

 

https://www.ukata.org.uk/library/asbestos-health-statistics/

 

The death rate is however now falling, since it was banned 45 years ago and more and more people who were exposed have died from it... 😞 

[Tonka]

According to the HSE asbestos is still killing 4 plumbers a week.

 

I just mentioned it so as to warn the op.

 

I am not derailing the post

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, Tonka said:

According to the HSE asbestos is still killing 4 plumbers a week.

 

I just mentioned it so as to warn the op.

 

I am not derailing the post

It's evil stuff if broken up or cut (hence the strict regulations) which releases asbestos fibres, but if it's just sitting there undisturbed (e.g. behind a stove) it's unlikely to cause any problems.

 

Anyone removing it as a DIY job should take proper precautions, including how to dispose of it.

Edited February 26 by IanD

[Tonka]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

It's evil stuff if broken up or cut (hence the strict regulations) which releases asbestos fibres, but if it's just sitting there undisturbed (e.g. behind a stove) it's unlikely to cause any problems.

But if he is thinking of removing the tiles with a scraper or a chisel fibres will be released.

if it is an asbestos based board. Wasn't astalux one of its names

[LadyG]

4 minutes ago, Tonka said:

According to the HSE asbestos is still killing 4 plumbers a week.

 

I just mentioned it so as to warn the op.

 

I am not derailing the post

Yes you are: plumbing on a boat would rarely use asbestos, in industry it was used liberally.

Plumbers who have worked in industry and been exposed to asbestos might be dying,  but people who do boat plumbing don't use asbestos.

Asbestos is a white mineral, often formed in to 'bandages' to lag pipes. It is dangerous to install and dangerous to remove because it is composed of fine shards which are breathed in to the human lung, the lining of the lung gets damaged. There is no way to suck out the shards of the asbestos  it may take many years, and victims may die of other reasons first.

[IanD]

59 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Yes you are: plumbing on a boat would rarely use asbestos, in industry it was used liberally.

Plumbers who have worked in industry and been exposed to asbestos might be dying,  but people who do boat plumbing don't use asbestos.

Asbestos is a white mineral, often formed in to 'bandages' to lag pipes. It is dangerous to install and dangerous to remove because it is composed of fine shards which are breathed in to the human lung, the lining of the lung gets damaged. There is no way to suck out the shards of the asbestos  it may take many years, and victims may die of other reasons first.

But here we're not talking about soft asbestos pipe lagging, we're talking about rigid asbestos fireproof boards/tiles behind a stove -- and if these get damaged or broken during removal (which they almost certainly will if they're glued down) they *will* release asbestos fibres into the air.

 

The best thing to do is not to do anything to them; if they have to be removed, suitable precautions should be taken (e.g. mask, clothing, water spray...) along with proper bagging and disposal -- which is not cheap either... 😞 

Edited February 26 by IanD

[ditchcrawler]

26 minutes ago, IanD said:

  along with proper bagging and disposal -- which is not cheap either... 😞 

Which is why you find it dumped in the countryside 

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Which is why you find it dumped in the countryside 

I know. I would *hope* that most boaters are sufficiently principled not to do this, though there is no evidence to suggest that this supposition has any basis in reality... 😞  

 

We had some asbestos sheeting in the garden which cost us several hundred quid to get it dug out and disposed of properly -- and yes, we got the certification to show this had been done.

Edited February 26 by IanD

[Tony Brooks]

Our local recycling centre seems to take limited amounts of cement asbestos sheet as long as it is triple sealed in heavy-duty polythene. Our son got rid of the sheets off his garage roof in that way, but it needed several trips