Looking to replace our 1989 RN DM2

[SShesk]

Having a Russell Newbury while many would consider a treasure and it had been in terms of simplicity, its size however is a kin to parking a Harley Davidson in the engine room. We are looking at Barrus Shire 45-50, Canaline, and Beta Marine, any thoughts on the 3 as for replacement and reliability? Thank you. 

[GUMPY]

I've had 3 Betas  in my last 4 boats.

Wouldn't have any other "modern" engine.

My last Beta was one of their early ones dates from 1993 still going strong when I sold the boat 3 years ago.

[SShesk]

Thanks 

 

[Tonka]

Don't think Beta do a classic style engine anymore unless the JD3 is still available 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Tonka said:

Don't think Beta do a classic style engine anymore unless the JD3 is still available 

 

I am sure Barrus and Canaline don't ether, so I think the OP is looking for a compact, modern(ish) engine.

 

@SShesk Although based on a base engine that has long been viewed as at the quality end of small marine engines (Yanmar),  I am less impressed with the Barrus Shire marinisation. Lots of hire fleets seem to use Canaline, so they can't be bad, and Beta have a very good track record.  Whatever you buy, try to afford a hydraulic gearbox rather than a mechanical one. Hydraulic PRMs are very reliable and long lasting.

[frangar]

The engine would still need to be in the middle of the boat without some major re engineering….eg full hydraulic drive or angled cardan shafts….you would probably need a new prop….not to mention all the ancillary controls and stuff….and what do you hope to gain? Why buy a boat with a proper engine if you wanted one with a plant motor? 

[IanD]

10 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I am sure Barrus and Canaline don't ether, so I think the OP is looking for a compact, modern(ish) engine.

 

@SShesk Although based on a base engine that has long been viewed as at the quality end of small marine engines (Yanmar),  I am less impressed with the Barrus Shire marinisation. Lots of hire fleets seem to use Canaline, so they can't be bad, and Beta have a very good track record.  Whatever you buy, try to afford a hydraulic gearbox rather than a mechanical one. Hydraulic PRMs are very reliable and long lasting.

I was told that one reason for hire fleets choosing Canaline over Beta is that they were cheaper to buy -- certainly not "bad", but maybe not quite as "good" either... 😉 

[SShesk]

Funny old world as our RN and the engine room are in the rear with a traditional deck, I was somewhat mystified as to this but it may work well as a modern engine will afford the much needed space to accommodate other live aboard trappings. The engine is lovely

but maintaining it is a full time job and I want to simply things. 

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

I was told that one reason for hire fleets choosing Canaline over Beta is that they were cheaper to buy -- certainly not "bad", but maybe not quite as "good" either... 😉 

 

My choice from the three would be Beta, but that is personal and based on gut feeling, so not something one should use to advise others.

[SShesk]

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

I was told that one reason for hire fleets choosing Canaline over Beta is that they were cheaper to buy -- certainly not "bad", but maybe not quite as "good" either... 😉 

Yes I heard the same thanks

[IanD]

16 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

My choice from the three would be Beta, but that is personal and based on gut feeling, so not something one should use to advise others.

Many other people making the decision on quality rather than price seem to agree with you -- when I was considering getting a new diesel-engined boat built, Beta were also top of my list, if only for their support when I wanted something slightly non-standard at the time (*big* alternators). I've also had many hire boats with Beta engines in over the years and never had the slightest trouble with any of them -- at least, not with the engine... 😉 

 

They also seem happier running at the relatively low rpm/loads typical on canals for long periods than some of the other modern engines, especially DI ones which can be noisier and have more tendency to smoke.

Edited February 9 by IanD

[MrsM]

Our Barrus Shire 40 bhp was pretty bomb-proof. It never let us down, was easy to service and find spares for. No idea if it was as good as a Beta but we would certainly be happy to have one again. I would ideally love a historic engine (Ruston) but hubby would opt for modern due to the convenience of them. In 4 years of extensive cruising our engine never caused us the slightest issue. 

[blackrose]

3 hours ago, frangar said:

what do you hope to gain? Why buy a boat with a proper engine if you wanted one with a plant motor? 

 

You sound almost offended by the choices of others? How odd.

 

As the OP said, he/she hopes to gain simplicity and reliability without the need for frequent maintenance. The general advice on this forum is to buy a used boat and live with it for a year or two to see what you like/don't like. It seems to me that's exactly what the OP has done. If he/she wants a modern engine then why not? Perhaps the boat was bought for features other than its engine.

 

If the old RN as lovely as the OP describes then it's desirable and can live on in somebody else's boat and the OP may not even be too out of pocket after getting their new engine fitted. Not that we should assume the overall cost is necessarily an issue.

 

Edited February 9 by blackrose

[Tony Brooks]

53 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Our Barrus Shire 40 bhp was pretty bomb-proof. It never let us down, was easy to service and find spares for. No idea if it was as good as a Beta but we would certainly be happy to have one again. I would ideally love a historic engine (Ruston) but hubby would opt for modern due to the convenience of them. In 4 years of extensive cruising our engine never caused us the slightest issue. 

 

Having just looked at the "glow plug light not going out completely" on a Barrus Shire whereon I have been having a problem trying to work out the electrical relationship between the glow plug switch, ign. switch (probably different position on the same switch), stop switch, and what looks like 3 relays I would suggest that electrically the Beta would be far simpler and easier to fault find when a problem occurred. Then there is the Barrus thermostatically controlled calorifier feed that other engines do without and seem to suffer no applicable downside.

[MrsM]

33 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Having just looked at the "glow plug light not going out completely" on a Barrus Shire whereon I have been having a problem trying to work out the electrical relationship between the glow plug switch, ign. switch (probably different position on the same switch), stop switch, and what looks like 3 relays I would suggest that electrically the Beta would be far simpler and easier to fault find when a problem occurred. Then there is the Barrus thermostatically controlled calorifier feed that other engines do without and seem to suffer no applicable downside.

I'm sure we were lucky Tony. Your experience counts for much more than our fortune at having an engine that was bother free. 

Edited February 9 by MrsM

[MtB]

4 hours ago, SShesk said:

Having a Russell Newbury while many would consider a treasure and it had been in terms of simplicity, its size however is a kin to parking a Harley Davidson in the engine room. We are looking at Barrus Shire 45-50, Canaline, and Beta Marine, any thoughts on the 3 as for replacement and reliability? Thank you. 

 

I've always fancied a Rusty Newbery. Do let me know if you decide to follow through and sell it. I have the perfect boat for it....

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

39 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Having just looked at the "glow plug light not going out completely" on a Barrus Shire whereon I have been having a problem trying to work out the electrical relationship between the glow plug switch, ign. switch (probably different position on the same switch), stop switch, and what looks like 3 relays I would suggest that electrically the Beta would be far simpler and easier to fault find when a problem occurred. Then there is the Barrus thermostatically controlled calorifier feed that other engines do without and seem to suffer no applicable downside.

Betas are much simpler electrically than Barrus. Energise to stop solonoid, rather than energise to run. Can be poked with a finger to stop the engine, if the electrics go down. Glow plugs energised by twisting the key switch to the appropriate position. The only weak point are the big multi pin plugs on the engine to control panel loom, especially the one at the engine end. 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

As the OP said, he/she hopes to gain simplicity and reliability without the need for frequent maintenance.

What frequent maintenance?

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The only weak point are the big multi pin plugs on the engine to control panel loom, especially the one at the engine end. 

 

But regrettably, most modern engines use those unless the owner/installer has had them removed. trouble is that if they are, it takes a little knowledge and skill to rewire if the engine has to be taken out and refitted.

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

What frequent maintenance?

 

As long as it is tank cooled, that is what I was wondering about, unless, as an old design, it has short oil and possibly filters change intervals.

[Bee]

We have a Beta 43, few problems over nearly 20 years, fuel lift pump gave up, Jabsco (?) water pump needed new bearings, (A DIY job and cheap) some impellers, oil and filters, engine hour counter gave up, that's about it. Thing is that I reckon it's not significantly smaller than a RN, it is much lighter though so you would have to add a bit of ballast and the propeller would need changing as well as welding suitable engine beds, all sorts of messing about with cooling water and exhaust and some sort of tricky throttle and gearchange work plus you might well have to fit a Python / Aquadrive unit (recommended) or something like it, they are expensive as well. You would gain some space but I doubt if it's worth the bother really.

[MtB]

22 minutes ago, David Mack said:

What frequent maintenance?

 

My thoughts too. 

 

If they think maintaining a Rusty Newbery is a "Full time job" (to quote them), wait until they get a Beta!

 

 

[SShesk]

20 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I've always fancied a Rusty Newbery. Do let me know if you decide to follow through and sell it. I have the perfect boat for it....

 

 

Will do its away off probably Spring 2027 currently heading to Drydock in Jun for shot blast  and two pack. 

[Tony Brooks]

12 minutes ago, SShesk said:

Will do its away off probably Spring 2027 currently heading to Drydock in Jun for shot blast  and two pack. 

 

Have a look at the Barrus glow plug warning lamp topic, read and ponder if you need that level of complication if/when things go wrong.

[alan_fincher]

Another vote for "What maintenance does a RN need that a Beta/Barrus/Canaline/Etc does not?".

 

The point that more frequent oil changes are mandated is, I accept, a possibility, but never having owned an RN, I don't know.

(I came close to owning a boat with an RN, but the "seller" pissed me about so much it never happened).

[Jen-in-Wellies]

One advantage of selling the RN that has not been mentioned is that the former owner can shave off the compulsory beard, without being drummed out of the owners club.  🧔