Building an app for narrowboat community

[SNDR]

Hello all,

I’m new here and right at the start of my narrowboating journey. I’m currently viewing boats and hoping to get a survey done on one soon.

I’m a software developer (iOS/Android/web) and I’d like to give something back by building a small, practical tool for boaters. I’m not looking to create a social network or anything noisy, and I know signal can be patchy, so offline-friendly and low hassle is the goal.

If you could wave a wand and remove one recurring admin headache or everyday irritation on the cut, what would it be? Mooring etiquette, stoppage info, water points, pump-outs, logbook tracking, finding services, reminders, anything.

One thought I had was an opt-in way to leave a “mooring note” (eg “happy to be double moored” / “engine issues, please knock”) without sharing phone numbers, but I’m much more interested in hearing what problems you’d actually want solved.

Cheers.

[Arthur Marshall]

The most useful app would be the one CRT once said they were developing but haven't, which you could use to report infrastructure damage or potential problems both to CRT and a generally accessible map and database. It would be useful, for example, to know which locks on the Cheshire flight were out of action or had broken paddles, and other such stuff.

It would have the disadvantage, if not constantly updated, of giving duff information but if the interface were simple enough and linked to CRT updates, it might be helpful.

[system 4-50]

and if it could be extended to potholes & councils that would be a plus...

[Arthur Marshall]

1 minute ago, system 4-50 said:

and if it could be extended to potholes & councils that would be a plus...

Hell of a pothole on the Llangollen, currently...

[Tonka]

There was a survey taken and the result was that 70% of the UK population dont use apps yet companies keep developing more apps.

Why

 

[IanM]

8 minutes ago, Tonka said:

There was a survey taken and the result was that 70% of the UK population dont use apps yet companies keep developing more apps.

Why

 

 

Because people like the OP keep telling them that they need them to make life easier and to fix problems that don't need fixing.  

 

A company I worked for developed an app to record production data because the board of directors desperately wanted an app because "you have to have an app".  They spent a lot of time trying to find something that an app would be suitable for and at the end of the day it did nothing different to what the production software did anyway.  

 

 

Edited February 2 by IanM

[SNDR]

Wow, “people like OP”. I do understand not everything needs an app. I even told that many time to my customers that their business might not need one even though that meant I don’t get a contract to work on.

 

However, I would definite use an app (web site that is convenient to use on mobile also counts as an app) to see canal obstruction or infrastructure issue reports. 
 

I am sure there are other useful things people would want to know or simplify especially in term of admin. It’s just that I don’t know them yet, hence my question. But by no means I want to force someone to use any of the apps. I’m just trying to be helpful. 

22 minutes ago, Tonka said:

There was a survey taken and the result was that 70% of the UK population dont use apps yet companies keep developing more apps.

Why

 

That survey is wrong unless there’s a specific demographic attached to it.

[David Mack]

Just now, SNDR said:

However, I would definite use an app (web site that is convenient to use on mobile also counts as an app) to see canal obstruction or infrastructure issue reports. 

CRT website already lists stoppages, and is the resource boaters are most likely to go to. Any new significant obstructions (that haven't yet made it to the CRT pages) spread pretty quickly across social media (including this forum), so I'm not sure what an app would add.

[Tonka]

12 minutes ago, SNDR said:

Wow, “people like OP”. I do understand not everything needs an app. I even told that many time to my customers that their business might not need one even though that meant I don’t get a contract to work on.

 

However, I would definite use an app (web site that is convenient to use on mobile also counts as an app) to see canal obstruction or infrastructure issue reports. 
 

I am sure there are other useful things people would want to know or simplify especially in term of admin. It’s just that I don’t know them yet, hence my question. But by no means I want to force someone to use any of the apps. I’m just trying to be helpful. 

That survey is wrong unless there’s a specific demographic attached to it.

Tell that to the BBc. I heard one of their morning presenters interviewing an RAC man and he used it to ask why the RAC insist on using an app.

[IanD]

22 minutes ago, David Mack said:

CRT website already lists stoppages, and is the resource boaters are most likely to go to. Any new significant obstructions (that haven't yet made it to the CRT pages) spread pretty quickly across social media (including this forum), so I'm not sure what an app would add.

Because that works if you go looking for stoppages regularly on the CRT website and reading social media while boating, which many don't do -- at least, not every day.

 

An app could (for example) notify you via an alert of any new/planned stoppages (or existing ones) within 20 miles (or whatever) of your current location, so you don't get swamped by ones which don't matter to you.

 

And before people object "I don't want an app" or "I don't want Big Brother to now where I am" -- the beauty of an app is that if you don't like it, don't install/use it... 🙂 

Edited February 2 by IanD

[SNDR]

10 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Tell that to the BBc. I heard one of their morning presenters interviewing an RAC man and he used it to ask why the RAC insist on using an app.

I didn't use RAC app, but I did use BMW similar app when I had a burst tyre. It was very helpful as I had 1) number to call 2) status of my request and 3) location of the rescue mechanic/crew live on the map. I appreciate one can phone RAC but then you don't know exact ETA, what's going on, you need to ring again, it's a faff.

1 minute ago, IanD said:

Because that works if you go looking for stoppages regularly on the CRT website and reading social media while boating, which many don't do -- at least, not every day.

 

An app could (for example) notify you via an alert of any new/planned stoppages (or existing ones) within 20 miles (or whatever) of your current location, so you don't get swamped by ones which don't matter to you.

Yes, sort of you select specific locks, canals of interest and if something is going on you can get a nudge.

[IanD]

1 minute ago, SNDR said:

I didn't use RAC app, but I did use BMW similar app when I had a burst tyre. It was very helpful as I had 1) number to call 2) status of my request and 3) location of the rescue mechanic/crew live on the map. I appreciate one can phone RAC but then you don't know exact ETA, what's going on, you need to ring again, it's a faff.

Yes, sort of you select specific locks, canals of interest and if something is going on you can get a nudge.

You could of course do that -- like on the CRT website -- but it's a bit of faff, and people forget to update the details, or they have too many canals listed so get too many irrelevant alerts. "Stoppages within 20 miles of me" (or whatever you choose) is easier and doesn't have this problem.

One of the most annoying problems with apps (and software on PCs) is sometimes the "boy that cried wolf" problem -- too many false/irrelevant alerts mean people ignore them (and miss that one vital one) or stop using the app. A valuable skill in app design is to minimise this, so it only tells the user what they really want/need to know, not loads of dross... 😉 

[Wafi]

1 minute ago, SNDR said:

I didn't use RAC app, but I did use BMW similar app when I had a burst tyre. It was very helpful as I had 1) number to call 2) status of my request and 3) location of the rescue mechanic/crew live on the map. I appreciate one can phone RAC but then you don't know exact ETA, what's going on, you need to ring again, it's a faff.

On the flip side, having to install an app just to do something trivial like parking a car is also an almighty faff, as is trying to use the app you installed last time, discovering it needs an update, then having to find an area of the car park with a decent signal to perform that update, then having to try to figure out why it's simultaneously insisting you update your payment method whilst also refusing to let you update your payment method.

I prefer to use a proper computer whenever I can, with a proper screen that doesn't require a magnifying glass and can show lots of information at once, a proper keyboard that doesn't take up half the already-tiny screen and a proper mouse that doesn't require the dexterity of a surgeon to select the right bit of text or click the right button. That choice is steadily being taken away from me, in many cases I can't even do online banking at a computer without also having my mobile phone to hand; if I lose it, or it's out of battery at a critical time, I'm screwed. A mobile phone is an amazing piece of engineering that can do all sorts of different things, but it does almost all of those things pretty badly; mobile phones are not even that effective for making phone calls!

[IanM]

20 minutes ago, SNDR said:

Wow, “people like OP”.

 

Ok, not the best choice of words but yours isn't the first post on here asking similar questions.

 

I would like one with a few buttons.  Engine start, set off, moor up, and engine stop.  It would then log the times and GPS position of each action and produce a log of where I've moored, what time I started, etc which could then be exported into Excel either by day or a range of dates.

 

An alert which detects when the boat hasn't moved for a while to remind me to stop recording would be handy.

 

Oh, and I don't really want to pay for it.

 

The thing with a stoppage notification and reporting type app is you need to get CRT on board really for it to be useful else it would become some sort of 'secret' club that only the app users know what is going on.   

 

"Subscribe for £7.99 a month to get stoppage notices or pay £11.99 a month for our premium stoppage alert service to get stoppage alerts as they happen" 😄

 

Then you have the data coverage issue as not everyone is going to have signal all the time.

 

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

One of the most annoying problems with apps (and software on PCs) is sometimes the "boy that cried wolf" problem -- too many false/irrelevant alerts mean people ignore them (and miss that one vital one) or stop using the app.

 

Also what is an important issue to one person isn't to another.  If people started reporting every low hanging branch because they had to duck slightly it would soon become tiresome.

[MtB]

I'd say the most common boating problem reported on here is "My batteries keep going flat".

 

To which the answer nearly always "You're not charging them enough", usually after three pages of questions and answers going all round the houses to get there.

 

An app to tell people this would be great! 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

3 minutes ago, IanM said:

" 😄

 

 

Also what is an important issue to one person isn't to another.  If people started reporting every low hanging branch because they had to duck slightly it would soon become tiresome.

You could limit it to specific topics, lock problems, potential leaks, fallen trees, other hazards. And like on here,  choose which categories you wanted to see. Simple way to update.

[SNDR]

7 minutes ago, Wafi said:

On the flip side, having to install an app just to do something trivial like parking a car is also an almighty faff, as is trying to use the app you installed last time, discovering it needs an update, then having to find an area of the car park with a decent signal to perform that update, then having to try to figure out why it's simultaneously insisting you update your payment method whilst also refusing to let you update your payment method.

I prefer to use a proper computer whenever I can, with a proper screen that doesn't require a magnifying glass and can show lots of information at once, a proper keyboard that doesn't take up half the already-tiny screen and a proper mouse that doesn't require the dexterity of a surgeon to select the right bit of text or click the right button. That choice is steadily being taken away from me, in many cases I can't even do online banking at a computer without also having my mobile phone to hand; if I lose it, or it's out of battery at a critical time, I'm screwed. A mobile phone is an amazing piece of engineering that can do all sorts of different things, but it does almost all of those things pretty badly; mobile phones are not even that effective for making phone calls!

That’s why I mentioned that if I build anything at all it will be on iOS/Android and web too, thus you could use it on desktop should you wish to. 

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Tonka said:

There was a survey taken and the result was that 70% of the UK population dont use apps yet

Maybe they surveyed two year olds. Everyone with a smartphone uses apps.

[SNDR]

Just now, Arthur Marshall said:

You could limit it to specific topics, lock problems, potential leaks, fallen trees, other hazards. And like on here,  choose which categories you wanted to see. Simple way to update.

That’s exactly what why I came here to ask these questions! It’s very important to understand your users and not create more hassle, but to actually help.

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Maybe they surveyed two year olds. Everyone with a smartphone uses apps.

 

Are you sure, I have a smartphone and very rarely use an app that my dumb phone did not have (contact list). I do not consider the phone function and SMS etc. procedure to be an app in the truest sense of the word. They are firmware.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

The information is there from CaRT, if you can get access to it. Used to power the online stoppage / notification lists and maps. Depends if you can query it and if CaRT are going to be OK with you doing so. If OK, it would save you having to decode how they format it. Probably best to speak to them. All the info is already available via the web site, or the email alerts. I'm sure some would like an app, though I don't see it as something I'd install. 

[MtB]

I routinely use the following apps on my phone:

 

AppleMaps

Notes

BBC Sounds

WhatsApp

PayPal POS

Camera

Hive

Tesla

Safari

GasRateCalc

TestoSmart

Iagrams

Tesco

My Bank app

Shazam

 

[DShK]

don't need an app especially if it is to remove yet more natural face to face social interaction, the effect of which is isolating and depressing people. Tech bros really do think that "we just need more technology and people will be happy!!" Boating has been done without the assistance of anything like that for hundreds of years.

[SNDR]

13 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The information is there from CaRT, if you can get access to it. Used to power the online stoppage / notification lists and maps. Depends if you can query it and if CaRT are going to be OK with you doing so. If OK, it would save you having to decode how they format it. Probably best to speak to them. All the info is already available via the web site, or the email alerts. I'm sure some would like an app, though I don't see it as something I'd install. 

Thank you! I was thinking of volunteering with them as a software developer in this way.

[Wafi]

4 minutes ago, SNDR said:

That’s why I mentioned that if I build anything at all it will be on iOS/Android and web too, thus you could use it on desktop should you wish to. 

OK - if there's a desktop version I'm interested. It's not that I don't use apps, I just find the "everything on a tiny touch screen" user interface incredibly annoying, particularly as I'm often either sat at a proper computer anyway, or have a laptop on board.

 

What would be useful to me is a facilities map with reliable, comprehensive and up-to-date information. The CRT map shows their facilities only, Nicholson's guides show more (but not all, and the data is inherently stale). For instance I'd like to be able to zoom in and see everywhere that will provide a pump-out to passing boats, along with costs and opening times. Same for diesel - I want to know that XXX marina charges 80p a litre, that they welcome passing boats, what times they're open, a zoomable map of where to find the fuel berth if it's buried in the marina (as many are) and a phone number to call if I'm worried about a tricky-to-access fuel berth being occupied when I get there. Same for pubs - up to date opening hours and recent reviews (or at least ratings) that can be trusted. Ditto village shops. Ditto waste disposal (including whether they have particular facilities such as a bottle bank). A feature to mark particular facilities unserviceable, along with an indicator of when that status was last changed or confirmed.

 

Most of this data is available online, so I can obviously find it for myself with some effort, but an app/website that did all the legwork would be very useful if the data quality was consistently reliable. I work in IT, so I understand that it's a non-trivial task, but you did ask for suggestions 🙂