CaRT Funding Debate

[zimzim]

Just to note that a few minutes ago in Commons, Gavin Williamson requested a debate on future of funding for CaRT.

[Tonka]

Are all requests granted?

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, zimzim said:

Just to note that a few minutes ago in Commons, Gavin Williamson requested a debate on future of funding for CaRT.

Genuine question -- are there any MPs (apart from him?) who know the history of BW/CART funding and understand the issues, rather than just regurgitating the government/DEFRA line of "We're providing funding of £xxxM over the next 10 years out of the goodness of our hearts, so you should stop complaining and be grateful" ? 😉 

[Lady M]

Those in the parliamentary waterways group should know.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Lady M said:

Those in the parliamentary waterways group should know.

Great -- so what is their view on CART funding, as opposed to the official DEFRA/government position?

 

Is it the same one which has been proved to be unrealistic?

 

(we're going to taper off the grant in real terms, it's up to you to magically raise money to make up the gap even though this hasn't ever worked since it was proposed when CART was set up 15 years ago)

Edited January 22 by IanD

[DShK]

6 hours ago, IanD said:

Great -- so what is their view on CART funding, as opposed to the official DEFRA/government position?

 

Is it the same one which has been proved to be unrealistic?

 

(we're going to taper off the grant in real terms, it's up to you to magically raise money to make up the gap even though this hasn't ever worked since it was proposed when CART was set up 15 years ago)

"The All-Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) for the Waterways champions the revitalisation and restoration of the UK’s navigable (and previously navigable) waterways. Our purpose is to unlock the environmental, social, economic, and cultural potential of the UK’s rivers and canals by boosting local economies, promoting sustainability and connecting people to nature."

 

Presumably this would suggest they feel funding is needed.

 

There are over 20 sitting MPs in the group.

[MrsM]

I wonder how many of the committee members actually have a genuine interest in the waterways? 

[DShK]

4 minutes ago, MrsM said:

I wonder how many of the committee members actually have a genuine interest in the waterways? 

if you're talking about the APPG - why would you join a group like that otherwise??

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, DShK said:

if you're talking about the APPG - why would you join a group like that otherwise??

 

It looks good on your CV and suggests you have been involved in 'things'.

[DShK]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It looks good on your CV and suggests you have been involved in 'things'.

How terribly sad to be that cynical!

Edited January 22 by DShK

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, DShK said:

How terribly sad to be that cynical!

 

Experience of folks in 'high places'.

[LadyG]

Just now, DShK said:

How terribly sad to be that cynical!

He is quite correct, it was my thinkingbt too, though i exp3ct they do n3ed to have some interest in the subject. They get expenses to travel to Westminster, it all adds up. 

[MrsM]

I'm afraid I'm in the cynical camp too. Having been heavily involved in pub campaigning for the last 6-7 years, our politicians seem neither capable nor willing to take any action that might slow down the destruction and loss of our country's pubs. I fear the waterways will be treated similarly. 

[Stroudwater1]

18 hours ago, MrsM said:

I'm afraid I'm in the cynical camp too. Having been heavily involved in pub campaigning for the last 6-7 years, our politicians seem neither capable nor willing to take any action that might slow down the destruction and loss of our country's pubs. I fear the waterways will be treated similarly. 

 

Well it’s possible that it’s been the reason for Robbie Cummin and John Sargeant to speak about it this afternoon on Matt Chorleys five live show. Late on in the show, sorry can’t do the link. Matt is rather up and coming, now presenting Newsnight sometimes so raising funding profile in anyway may help. I think he lives near the Wilts and Berks though not CRT related. 
 

Unfortunately John Sargeant wasn’t aware that the Anderton lift is closed which was a little embarrassing. Corrected politely by Robbie.

 

Edit- 1.hr 49 into today’s show, Friday. 

Edited January 23 by Stroudwater1

[Tonka]

21 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 

Well it’s possible that it’s been the reason for Robbie Cummin and John Sargeant to speak about it this afternoon on Matt Chorleys five live show. Late on in the show, sorry can’t do the link. Matt is rather up and coming, now presenting Newsnight sometimes so raising funding profile in anyway may help. I think he lives near the Wilts and Berks though not CRT related. 
 

Unfortunately John Sargeant wasn’t aware that the Anderton lift is closed which was a little embarrassing. Corrected politely by Robbie.

 

Edit- 1.hr 49 into today’s show, Friday. 

Hope he did a better job then he does steering his boat

[Guest]

Wiltshire canal being built for £250k a year

 

Small scale canal nav authorities much better positioned to keep the canals going

 

CRT have squandered millions and driven volunteers away through their nonsense, corrupt selling of assets and equipment and dodgy deals with busineses such as land and water etc. Wasted millions on projects delivered by Kier and rotham w no scrutiny on if the works are actually done. 

 

Defund them and let them fall apart so that we might replace them with something that actually does the job. You don't continue funding parasitic and ineffectual quangos you pet them die and be taken back to EA/ defra

[Mike Coombes]

On 22/01/2026 at 23:52, MrsM said:

I'm afraid I'm in the cynical camp too. Having been heavily involved in pub campaigning for the last 6-7 years, our politicians seem neither capable nor willing to take any action that might slow down the destruction and loss of our country's pubs. I fear the waterways will be treated similarly. 

 

I fear the loss of our countries pubs is many faceted. 

 

Cost of operating the business model is probably the foremost.

 

Unless a good resturant is incorporated, a 'drinks only' rural pub is on a hiding to nothing profit wise.

 

Drink Driving laws and the cost of a few pints make it unaffordable for many.

 

Drinking habits have changed significantly, as has the use of our Inland Waterways.

 

Sad, but there it is.

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Mike Coombes said:

 

I fear the loss of our countries pubs is many faceted. 

 

Cost of operating the business model is probably the foremost.

 

Unless a good resturant is incorporated, a 'drinks only' rural pub is on a hiding to nothing profit wise.

 

Drink Driving laws and the cost of a few pints make it unaffordable for many.

 

Drinking habits have changed significantly, as has the use of our Inland Waterways.

 

Sad, but there it is.

 

And whilst it may be considered Polical, the tax changes (NI etc), the business rates and property taxes have pushed many pubs over the top.

 

The new properrty tax alone has increased the cost of a small village pub by almost £4000 and a medium sized pub by over £11000

 

We're standing in his beautiful Cotswolds stone pub, The Hog at Horsley. It is known for its well-kept local ales, from Stroud Brewery and good bar banter.

But the landlord now has an alter ego on social media, "The Grumpy Landlord".

Mr Honeychurch launched it after he discovered how much his business rates will rise.

"At the moment we pay around £100 a month," he explained.

"Next year, it will go up to £820 a month".

[Tear Up The Plan]

👋

At the considerable risk of wading into murky waters of unknown depths … is there a credible prospect of the “central government” reconsidering the CRT’s funding model and, in doing so, ensuring a sufficiency of resources? 
 

My understanding - imminent correction gratefully received - is that BW was chronically underfunded but as a … Crown agency (?), it had shortfalls made up by central government (Defra?). The wheeze, then, behind standing up the CRT was essentially removing the expense from central government and instead expecting the necessary funding to be raised automagically through the pantomime of charitable donations. 
 

I sense something of a “sink or swim” attitude towards this, along the lines of let the users and gongoozlers pay for it, and if they don’t … oh well. That’s worrying, particularly as governments are not well known for saying “ah; that’s not gone well” and resuming responsibility (BR). 

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And whilst it may be considered Polical, the tax changes (NI etc), the business rates and property taxes have pushed many pubs over the top.

 

The new properrty tax alone has increased the cost of a small village pub by almost £4000 and a medium sized pub by over £11000

 

We're standing in his beautiful Cotswolds stone pub, The Hog at Horsley. It is known for its well-kept local ales, from Stroud Brewery and good bar banter.

But the landlord now has an alter ego on social media, "The Grumpy Landlord".

Mr Honeychurch launched it after he discovered how much his business rates will rise.

"At the moment we pay around £100 a month," he explained.

"Next year, it will go up to £820 a month".

While this is true, it is also true that the whole concept of the pub as a centre of local social life is long defunct. Most have been virtually empty all week for years, only weekend trade and horrible pies keeping them going. And whatever the reason for it, yer average local working bloke on minimum wage aint going to be able to afford to walk through the door. Nor can your whisky sipping pensioner.

[Tacet]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And whilst it may be considered Polical, the tax changes (NI etc), the business rates and property taxes have pushed many pubs over the top.

 

The new properrty tax alone has increased the cost of a small village pub by almost £4000 and a medium sized pub by over £11000

 

We're standing in his beautiful Cotswolds stone pub, The Hog at Horsley. It is known for its well-kept local ales, from Stroud Brewery and good bar banter.

But the landlord now has an alter ego on social media, "The Grumpy Landlord".

Mr Honeychurch launched it after he discovered how much his business rates will rise.

"At the moment we pay around £100 a month," he explained.

"Next year, it will go up to £820 a month".

What is this new properrty tax please?

[LadyG]

10 hours ago, Wildling said:

Wiltshire canal being built for £250k a year

 

Small scale canal nav authorities much better positioned to keep the canals going

 

CRT have squandered millions and driven volunteers away through their nonsense, corrupt selling of assets and equipment and dodgy deals with busineses such as land and water etc. Wasted millions on projects delivered by Kier and rotham w no scrutiny on if the works are actually done. 

 

Defund them and let them fall apart so that we might replace them with something that actually does the job. You don't continue funding parasitic and ineffectual quangos you pet them die and be taken back to EA/ defra

Please go away.

[Mike Coombes]

14 hours ago, LadyG said:

Please go away.

 

Seconded!

[Guest]

On 26/01/2026 at 14:49, Mike Coombes said:

 

Seconded!

I can't, I'm too busy maintaining the infrastructure and picking up the slack on the Bristol Avon... To see myself doing it for free and being accommodating of desperados and mooring squatters Vs the CRT who are charging way over the top for what we are getting and enforcing against the most random pick of people.. well it makes me see debates like this in a different light. 

 

If they can't even cut down the trees putting roots through embankments and reservoirs then they have failed on their promise to us to become self sufficient (after selling off all the assets and equipment) and they have failed in their taking over of BWs statutory duties on the cheap. 

 

The canals are highways for commercial businesses like mine not just places to muck around and romance your mistress.. I demand the CRT undertake their statutory duty and maintain navigation, if they can't (and they clearly can't) send it back to DEFRA/ EA 

 

Imagine if a private company linked with a charity offered to do highways agency stat duty for less cost and then mismanaged it to the point of failure..

Edited January 27 by Wildling

[Rob-M]

I think you may find DEFRA/EA wouldn't want it as they don't have the money to maintain either.  The government giving BW off to the charitable sector was never going to bring in the required revenue so unless you have some wonderful idea on how CRT can grow money you are going to be out of luck.