Living three days a week on a 23 ft / waterbug style boat

[SNDR]

Hello dear forum,

 

I'm a complete noob in terms of boating. Reading books, guides, forums, watching youtube to clue up. I think I am ready to buy a boat. A little bit about my situation:

• Due to my work I need to be in London 3-4 days a week
• I do have a brick and mortar house within 2h drive from London
• I am happy with 2-8k / year London area mooring fees (Uxbridge/Union Canal) with reasonable access to central London by public transport 

 

My objectives and wishes:

• to find a boat that I can sleep on 3-4 nights a week
• need to be okay for year around sleepovers for 1 person
• I don't plan on cooking much, but if eggs & bacon can be fried in the morning - brill, being able to make a coffee is a must
• shower - nice to have, but I'll be showering at my gym after work anyway
• laundry - not important or can do launderette / gym laundry service
• loo - I'd rather have a composting one, but I'm not fussy, can do cassette thing to.
• battery power is not an issue as I'll just chuck something like a Bluetti 2000 into it for my electric needs (nespresso machine, etc.)

 

In summer I plan to do some mild cruising, but nothing too crazy.

 

With the above in mind it's more like "a hotel boat" rather than a "living on boat". I was looking at 23ft Springer waterbug and similar sized (23-24) boats. Would that be considered an acceptable boat for the above needs? Or am I missing some secret boat type I haven't yet seen or discovered? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Thank you!

[Bacchus]

Just a thought, but Brentford Dock Marina allows three nights/week as a pied-a-terre mooring and was very reasonably priced last time I looked; do you need a narrow-boat? If a small cruiser might also suit it would open up the choice a bit.

[David Mack]

Fine for the summer months, if you don't mind roughing it a bit. But small boats can be a bit confining in winter. Not all are well insulated, so can be cold, and condensation can be an issue. How are you going to heat the boat? Most boaters end up with solid fuel stoves for good reason.

A mooring with mains electricity will allow you to use your coffee maker/kettle and an electric hotplate for simple cooking and for other electrical needs like charging phones, laptops etc. and possibly low power water heating (immersion heater). What about a fridge? Electric fridges typically reresent half the boat's total electric demand.

Otherwise you really need gas for cooking/kettle. Most boats have gas installed anyway. Space and water heating can be gas or diesel fired.

Solar can provide for most of your electrical needs in summer, but will do little in winter.

Boats, especially small ones, don't have space to compost the contents of your loo, and there is nowhere you can legally dispose of it, unless you take it back to your bricks-and-mortar abode.

[LadyG]

I think I would go for a tiny NB provided with a small stove.   GRP cruisers are generally summer only, there are exceptions

.The sofa can be your bed, assuming you are not too large.  saloon probably needs to be 10ft 

You wont really have time available to do any reconstruction, so it's a matter of looking for something suitable.

Regarding cash flow, I think this will work out more than taking a room in a shared flat. Both may have contracts.  

You may see rental boats, be carefull, these may be dodgy.

You may see boats to purchase that are cheap, there may be reasons.

Try the London Boaters Facebook site.

Edited January 18 by LadyG

[Lady M]

Most Springer Waterbugs have outboard engines, fuelled by petrol, with various associated disadvantages over inboard diesel.  You will need a longer boat than 23 ft to have a permanent bed.  Making up the bed every night can be wearing.  

[LadyG]

14 hours ago, Lady M said:

Most Springer Waterbugs have outboard engines, fuelled by petrol, with various associated disadvantages over inboard diesel.  You will need a longer boat than 23 ft to have a permanent bed.  Making up the bed every night can be wearing.  

Yes but it's only 2 or three nights and he can leave it most mornings as it is, just buy a luxury sleeping bag. It needs to be aired or it will get cold and damp

Edited January 18 by LadyG

[ditchcrawler]

Buy something a bit newer than a Springer, something with spray foam insulation especially for winter time 

[mrsmelly]

We have a friend who lived full time for a couple of years on a waterbug.

[SNDR]

3 hours ago, Bacchus said:

Just a thought, but Brentford Dock Marina allows three nights/week as a pied-a-terre mooring and was very reasonably priced last time I looked; do you need a narrow-boat? If a small cruiser might also suit it would open up the choice a bit.

I was actually looking at that marina too! I am not familiar with pied-a-terre mooring, but if it's more affordable it's even better. As for a cruiser I was hoping for a small canal boat, as this is the type of a boat that is more appealing to me. I know little about living on a canal boat, but regarding cruisers I have zero knowledge at all. Are they able to access all the canals? Is it possible to moor them everywhere canal boats are allowed?

[SNDR]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Buy something a bit newer than a Springer, something with spray foam insulation especially for winter time 

Are there any particular boat types / brands I need to look at? I try to stay on a budget and waterbug / springer seems to fit 17-22k budget nicely. 

[SNDR]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

Yes but it's only 2 or three nights and he can leave it most mornings as it is, just buy a luxury sleeping bag.

I don't mind leaving the bed as-is in the morning and tidy it up before I drive home for the weekend. 

[SNDR]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

I think I would go for a tiny NB provided a small stove or similar would work.   GRP cruisers are generally summer only, there are exceptions

.The sofa can be your bed, assuming you are not too large.  saloon probably needs to be 10ft 

You wont really have time available to do any reconstruction, so it's a matter of looking for something suitable.

Regarding cash flow, I think this will work out more than taking a room in a shared flat. Both may have contracts.  

You may see rental boats, be carefull, these may be dodgy.

You may see boats to purchase that are cheap, there may be reasons.

Try the London Boaters Facebook site.

Shared flat is an absolute no-no for me. A tiny NB seems much better option, especially that I can take it in summer elsewhere (my job relaxed hybrid working restrictions in summer, so I don't have to be in office for weeks then). I'm looking at 17-22k range for small NB. I don't mind dated decor or anything that I can touch up by staying over couple weekends (paint, decor, minor electrics), but yes it needs to have a running engine, heating and not leak.

[SNDR]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

Fine for the summer months, if you don't mind roughing it a bit. But small boats can be a bit confining in winter. Not all are well insulated, so can be cold, and condensation can be an issue. How are you going to heat the boat? Most boaters end up with solid fuel stoves for good reason.

A mooring with mains electricity will allow you to use your coffee maker/kettle and an electric hotplate for simple cooking and for other electrical needs like charging phones, laptops etc. and possibly low power water heating (immersion heater). What about a fridge? Electric fridges typically reresent half the boat's total electric demand.

Otherwise you really need gas for cooking/kettle. Most boats have gas installed anyway. Space and water heating can be gas or diesel fired.

Solar can provide for most of your electrical needs in summer, but will do little in winter.

Boats, especially small ones, don't have space to compost the contents of your loo, and there is nowhere you can legally dispose of it, unless you take it back to your bricks-and-mortar abode.

Heating: The boats I am looking at have solid fuel stoves.

For fridge, kettle, coffee maker, etc I will get https://bluettipower.co.uk/products/bluetti-ac200p-2000wh-2000w-portable-power-station - it can power all of that and if the shore line is accessible it can recharge itself with lower power update, not to upset the marina people. In summer solar can be plugged into it.

 

As for condensation I don't know. I am hoping it's possible to use chemical dehumidifier or low power electric one?

Loo: cassette is fine, I'm not fussy. Composting would be grand, but I get it if there's no space, then no space.

 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/springer-24-cruiser-stern-for-sale/814527

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/springer-23-waterbug-for-sale/815064/9881641

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/springer-23-waterbug-for-sale/807540 (this one is missing a heater, but has a spot for it)

[Gybe Ho]

It will be a good learning episode but I predict within 18 months you will either abandon the lifestye experiment or be looking to trade up to a larger boat say 38ft to 45ft. With that in mind make sure you get a tradable boat so nothing cranky or eccentric.

[SNDR]

35 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

It will be a good learning episode but I predict within 18 months you will either abandon the lifestye experiment or be looking to trade up to a larger boat say 38ft to 45ft. With that in mind make sure you get a tradable boat so nothing cranky or eccentric.

The ones I'm looking at are very average looking one. Nothing fringe. Do you think 23 ft is an absolute no go? My normal days in London are "wake up/work/gym/occasionally meet friend/sleep". With more work on laptop/reading before bed. Wouldn't 23 ft work for this? As I mentioned I'm not planning on living full time, just need a place to sleep, really.

 

For summer months, given the engine works fine, I don't mind limited space, even if cruising on the network. I'd love a 38ft, of course, but I'm on a budget. I can do 17-22k for a boat in cash. Finance is not an option, sadly.

 

As for the lifestyle, due to my work I'm used to do all kind of weird arrangements (commuting from East Sussex to Edinburgh by plane, etc), but challenge of 18 months accepted haha.

[LadyG]

6 hours ago, SNDR said:

Are there any particular boat types / brands I need to look at? I try to stay on a budget and waterbug / springer seems to fit 17-22k budget nicely. 

NB are often not branded. Springers are pretty old and may be corroded, a survey requires them to be lifted out and costs about £1000 They would probably not be foam insulated pre 1999,  so having a stove installed is a great idea. Gas CH would be outrageously expensive,  Webasto a/ Chinese knock off type  diesel heating is either on or it's off, so it's  warm or its cold. Might work if you have a very small electric heater on 24/7

A diesel Refleks heater or Bubble stove or a solid fuel stove would all suit, but might be hard to find a boat with them installed, and difficult to DIY, specialist installation,  they need to comply with Boat Safety Scheme.

NB are 6ft 10",  grp are generally wider, but this may not be of  concern in London. Best go and have a look and talk to boaters.

Grp are rarely insulated to a good standard and unlikely to have an inboard diesel engine, though these do exist.

 

[Tony Brooks]

4 hours ago, LadyG said:

Grp are rarely insulated to a good standard and unlikely to have an inboard diesel engine, though these do exist.

 

Unlikely to have an inboard diesel engine - really? I agree for small ones, but once you get to above perhaps 20 to 25 ft inboard diesels are probably fairly readily available.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 hours ago, LadyG said:

Webasto a/ Chinese knock off type  diesel heating is either on or it's off, so it's  warm or its cold..................

 

 

Really - had you considered using that little dial called a thermostat ?

[IanM]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Really - had you considered using that little dial called a thermostat ?

In @LadyG’s defence, our Webasto doesn’t have a thermostat and I imagine that a lot of other installations don’t either. 
 

We have valves on the flow and return to the radiators so we can turn them off during the summer and just keep the flow to the calourifer. 
 

Other than that it is as she says, off or on. 

Edited January 18 by IanM
Spelling

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, IanM said:

In @LadyG’s defence, our Webasto doesn’t have a thermostat and I imagine that a lot of other installations don’t either. 
 

We have valves on the flow and return to the radiators so we can turn them off during the summer and just keep the flow to the calourifer. 
 

Other than that it is as she says, off or on. 

 

 

In which case I stand corrected.

 

I have had a number of boats with Webasto or Eberspacher fitted and they have all had a thermostat.

I had a Webasto retro fitted in one boat and it came 'as standard' with a thermostat, so I was not aware that it was an optional extra.

[cheesegas]

42 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Unlikely to have an inboard diesel engine - really? I agree for small ones, but once you get to above perhaps 20 to 25 ft inboard diesels are probably fairly readily available.

Small GRP boats with inboards suitable for living on will almost always have a sterndrive to save space though, which as you probably know is costly if it hasn't been looked after and the leg's full of water... Enfield parts are getting expensive now, and if it's a Penta...you may as well just glass over the hole and fit an outboard, which is what happens to most of them.

 

Also, an outdrive on the canal isn't great, clearing a foul can be difficult depending on the design of the stern, and not all Enfields can be wound sideways out of the water. They also end up hitting the bottom quite a lot. If the OP is intending on cruising up the canal system from Brentford, you need to get through the Hanwell Flight and then West Drayton which is chock full of rubbish. The Paddington Arm can get quite low in summer too, despite being so long!

 

If they're going out on the Thames from Brentford then an outdrive is a much better idea though! More places to get it lifted out the water and serviced too.

[LadyG]

17 hours ago, SNDR said:

Hello dear forum,

 

I'm a complete noob in terms of boating. Reading books, guides, forums, watching youtube to clue up. I think I am ready to buy a boat. A little bit about my situation:

• Due to my work I need to be in London 3-4 days a week
• I do have a brick and mortar house within 2h drive from London
• I am happy with 2-8k / year London area mooring fees (Uxbridge/Union Canal) with reasonable access to central London by public transport 

 

My objectives and wishes:

• to find a boat that I can sleep on 3-4 nights a week
• need to be okay for year around sleepovers for 1 person
• I don't plan on cooking much, but if eggs & bacon can be fried in the morning - brill, being able to make a coffee is a must
• shower - nice to have, but I'll be showering at my gym after work anyway
• laundry - not important or can do launderette / gym laundry service
• loo - I'd rather have a composting one, but I'm not fussy, can do cassette thing to.
• battery power is not an issue as I'll just chuck something like a Bluetti 2000 into it for my electric needs (nespresso machine, etc.)

 

In summer I plan to do some mild cruising, but nothing too crazy.

 

With the above in mind it's more like "a hotel boat" rather than a "living on boat". I was looking at 23ft Springer waterbug and similar sized (23-24) boats. Would that be considered an acceptable boat for the above needs? Or am I missing some secret boat type I haven't yet seen or discovered? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Thank you!

I looked on apolloduck and a little waterbug with a stove recently sold for £15K, they were quite upfront about 3mm steel construction, which probably means you will only get third party insurance.

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

Small GRP boats with inboards suitable for living on will almost always have a sterndrive to save space though, which as you probably know is costly if it hasn't been looked after and the leg's full of water... Enfield parts are getting expensive now, and if it's a Penta...you may as well just glass over the hole and fit an outboard, which is what happens to most of them.

 

Also, an outdrive on the canal isn't great, clearing a foul can be difficult depending on the design of the stern, and not all Enfields can be wound sideways out of the water. They also end up hitting the bottom quite a lot. If the OP is intending on cruising up the canal system from Brentford, you need to get through the Hanwell Flight and then West Drayton which is chock full of rubbish. The Paddington Arm can get quite low in summer too, despite being so long!

 

If they're going out on the Thames from Brentford then an outdrive is a much better idea though! More places to get it lifted out the water and serviced too.

 

I don't disagree, but I wanted to try to put a bit of balance to LadyG's assertion. FWIW we had a 22ft cruiser with an MD2 on a shaft in the hire fleet. All or Seamatsers from a similar size upwards to 27ft, plus the Elysians of similar size had 1.5s on a shaft. I agree inboard narrows on a shaft will be a bit rarer.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

Small GRP boats with inboards suitable for living on will almost always have a sterndrive to save space though, which as you probably know is costly if it hasn't been looked after and the leg's full of water... Enfield parts are getting expensive now, and if it's a Penta...you may as well just glass over the hole and fit an outboard, which is what happens to most of them.

 

Also, an outdrive on the canal isn't great, clearing a foul can be difficult depending on the design of the stern, and not all Enfields can be wound sideways out of the water. They also end up hitting the bottom quite a lot. If the OP is intending on cruising up the canal system from Brentford, you need to get through the Hanwell Flight and then West Drayton which is chock full of rubbish. The Paddington Arm can get quite low in summer too, despite being so long!

 

If they're going out on the Thames from Brentford then an outdrive is a much better idea though! More places to get it lifted out the water and serviced too.

 

 

 

You are correct in what you say - but it should also be remembered that outboards have 'big issues' in use as well .............

 

1) Petrol use and storage regulations

2) Petrol availability (but in this case the OP could pick up a can on his way home from work)

 

and the 'biggy'

 

3)  The lack of charging capacity with a small 5-8 amp alternator.

 

He would be having to "live off" his 'portable power station' for both his 12v and 240v appliances.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 18 by Alan de Enfield

[LadyG]

59 minutes ago, IanM said:

In @LadyG’s defence, our Webasto doesn’t have a thermostat and I imagine that a lot of other installations don’t either. 
 

We have valves on the flow and return to the radiators so we can turn them off during the summer and just keep the flow to the calourifer. 
 

Other than that it is as she says, off or on. 

I do have a thermostat, and a timer, what i meant was, it's heating water in the radiators and when it's running it warms the boat to maybe 23C but then it reaches the thermostat setting it goes off so rapid cooling inside the boat. I dont run mine 24/7 in the cooler months even when I dont have the stove lit. It makes a heck of a din when it starts up at night, so six hours sleep is difficult.

As soon as it's chilly at night my fire is lit, it takes two hours to heat up, but i can leave it to burn a few shovels full of coal and it will keep boat at 20C for another six hours. I need a warm boat, so I have my stove working six months of the year. 

For someone who Is sleeping there three days a week a Refleks diesel stove with a cooker (single pan) top is worth a look, it looks fairly simple to install (maybe) and if it has a little window it provides that fireside illusion . 

Edited January 18 by LadyG