John Griffith - Bedworth Boat

[mark99]

Unknown location - possibly London waterways.

[Jonny P]

The boat is URE. New to John Griffiths’  fleet in 1906 and sold to Warwickshire Canal Carrying Co in 1936 according to Narrow Boat magazine fleet lists.

 

The Grand Junction gauging number is visible and also a second gauging number prefaced with a ‘T’, for Thames perhaps?

 

Edited January 9 by Jonny P

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Jonny P said:

The Grand Junction gauging number is visible and also a second gauging number prefaced with a ‘T’, for Thames perhaps?

 

 

Seems unlikely. The Thames has always used the name for registration, never a number. (Other than the number after a name e.g. Kingfisher 2.)

 

Or should that be Kingfisher 968? Lol.

[Jonny P]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Seems unlikely. The Thames has always used the name for registration, never a number. (Other than the number after a name e.g. Kingfisher 2.)

 

Or should that be Kingfisher 968? Lol.

Is that for pleasure boat registration purposes though? These are gauging numbers for calculating tolls rather than just registrations.

 

My uncertainty was that for a carrier like John Griffiths it might be more likely to have a Port of London gauging number; although Pete Harrison once informed me that few narrow boats were gauged for the PoL.

 

I don’t think this a PoL gauging number - it’s 1648 and PoL gauging numbers were in the 11,000s a decade before this boat was built - but other than the Thames I couldn’t think of where it might refer to.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Jonny P said:

Is that for pleasure boat registration purposes though?

 

To be fair, yes. I don't know about commercial registrations. But were there ever tolls on the River Thames, it being a PRN? If yes, when did they stop? 

 

 

 

 

[Jonny P]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

To be fair, yes. I don't know about commercial registrations. But were there ever tolls on the River Thames, it being a PRN? If yes, when did they stop? 

 

 

 

 

I dunno. But I don’t think having a right of navigation automatically means it can be exercised for free. Or at least it may refer to the natural watercourse but not the artificial lock channels and use of locks themselves. We don’t navigate the Thames for free.

 

 

[Chris M Jones]

The Thames Waterman’s Hall number for John Griffiths of Bedworth should be 1048, which was painted on all his boats that was used on the Thames. Griffiths had a large depot at Brentford for his London trade.  

 

In addition boats were also allocated individual numbers in later years. URE built in 1906 was given the number 13831 on 19th June 1907. Sometimes owners would paint these numbers on their boats as well.

[Jonny P]

47 minutes ago, Chris M Jones said:

The Thames Waterman’s Hall number for John Griffiths of Bedworth should be 1048, which was painted on all his boats that was used on the Thames. Griffiths had a large depot at Brentford for his London trade.  

 

In addition boats were also allocated individual numbers in later years. URE built in 1906 was given the number 13831 on 19th June 1907. Sometimes owners would paint these numbers on their boats as well.

So the number I’ve read as 1648 is in fact 1048 and presumably if it applies to the company rather than specifically the boat is a form of registration.

 

Was there a distinction between the Thames and the Port of London or were the tidal and non-tidal sections administered as one entity?

[Chris M Jones]

From 1857 a body of conservators was formed called the Thames Conservancy and managed the Thames river from Staines to Yantlet Creek. They had the power to carry out dredging where necessary and levy tolls on shipping using the river. The docks were in the hands of private dock companies, and registration of craft was done by the Waterman’s Company.

 

A Port of London Act was passed in 1908 and provided for the conservancy of the tidal Thames, ie: the 69 miles from Teddington Lock to the Nore, including control of the docks. The new body was called the Port of London Authority and started in 1909.

 

The registration and licensing of craft formally held by the Waterman’s Company, was transferred to the Port of London Authority. All craft that regularly worked and navigated within the Port of London had to have a certificate of registration giving details of the craft, and all waterman and lightermen working for gain also had to be licensed by the Port of London Authority.

 

The non-tidal Thames upstream of Teddington Lock remained under the authority of the Thames Conservancy.

[mark99]

I think I got this image when looking for something unrelated to boating but was searching history of something on the River Lea. Was from an old three book encyclopedia called "Wonderful London" IIRC.

Same boat I think.

Edited January 10 by mark99

[Derek R.]

'Wonderful London', yes indeed. Another of theirs:

 

 

The anglers are sited at the entrance to the Cumberland Arm. Behind them now is the floating(?) Chinese restaurant, and the truncated basin.

 

But the butty (motor alongside) is TRING.

Edited January 10 by Derek R.

[alan_fincher]

21 hours ago, MtB said:

To be fair, yes. I don't know about commercial registrations. But were there ever tolls on the River Thames, it being a PRN? If yes, when did they stop? 

I know my brother Mike was paying  when moving narrow boats on the Thames to get around the four year closure of Blisworth Tunnel, (so some time between 1980 and 1984).  My memory was that he was carring only a very nominal cargo, (possibly under a ton?), and it was a lot cheaper to pay commercial tolls than buying a pleasure licence.

I may be remembering wrong, but I don't think I am.

[BEngo]

Blagrove, in both "Bread upon the Waters" and "Quiet Waters By" has examples of how the Thames toll system could legitimately be 'manipulated' to the advantage of the toll payer.

[Jonny P]

On 10/01/2026 at 00:37, Chris M Jones said:

From 1857 a body of conservators was formed called the Thames Conservancy and managed the Thames river from Staines to Yantlet Creek. They had the power to carry out dredging where necessary and levy tolls on shipping using the river. The docks were in the hands of private dock companies, and registration of craft was done by the Waterman’s Company.

 

A Port of London Act was passed in 1908 and provided for the conservancy of the tidal Thames, ie: the 69 miles from Teddington Lock to the Nore, including control of the docks. The new body was called the Port of London Authority and started in 1909.

 

The registration and licensing of craft formally held by the Waterman’s Company, was transferred to the Port of London Authority. All craft that regularly worked and navigated within the Port of London had to have a certificate of registration giving details of the craft, and all waterman and lightermen working for gain also had to be licensed by the Port of London Authority.

 

The non-tidal Thames upstream of Teddington Lock remained under the authority of the Thames Conservancy.

Thanks for your responses and sharing of knowledge. Much appreciated.