Canal Maintenance

[Pluto]

They may well have been recorded, as I provided CRT with a list for certain sections of the L&LC which I had found in the archives, and workshops where I had been asked to check material before it was discarded. There are probably lists for other canals, but much material has been thrown away by those who did not understand its relevance or importance — as well as that information handed down by word of mouth.

[Alan de Enfield]

An interesting article online (yes - the Guardian) this morning as to why governments seem to be unable to make any meaningfull changes to the country and its economy.

 

It seems to apply equally to many big organisations - including C&RT, and aligns with what was posted in the OPs video

 

 

Governments come into office brimming with confidence. They say their election win is a mandate for change, and that work on its manifesto pledges will start immediately. Invariably, there is talk of sleeves being rolled up.

Sooner or later, there is a rude awakening. Ministers push buttons and pull levers expecting things to happen instantly, and are shocked to find that they don’t. The reason for that is simple: the British state is big – and getting bigger – but as an agent of change it is not up to the job.

This is true at both central and local levels. Over the years, the capacity of government to intervene has been pared back and professional expertise has been lost as council services have been outsourced. The main job of the state is now to alleviate the consequences of failure, which are becoming ever more pressing.

 

Food for thought ?

 

[alias]

18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

An interesting article online (yes - the Guardian) this morning as to why governments seem to be unable to make any meaningfull changes to the country and its economy.

 

It seems to apply equally to many big organisations - including C&RT, and aligns with what was posted in the OPs video

 

 

Governments come into office brimming with confidence. They say their election win is a mandate for change, and that work on its manifesto pledges will start immediately. Invariably, there is talk of sleeves being rolled up.

Sooner or later, there is a rude awakening. Ministers push buttons and pull levers expecting things to happen instantly, and are shocked to find that they don’t. The reason for that is simple: the British state is big – and getting bigger – but as an agent of change it is not up to the job.

This is true at both central and local levels. Over the years, the capacity of government to intervene has been pared back and professional expertise has been lost as council services have been outsourced. The main job of the state is now to alleviate the consequences of failure, which are becoming ever more pressing.

 

Food for thought ?

 

 

Interesting article, it's here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jan/08/labour-british-state-uk-economy-government

 

The article goes on to suggest that the solution to these woes is increased state intervention and investment in growth areas as part of an industrial strategy as an alternative to obeisance to market forces (and suggests that even the US as champions of the free market have proceeded to do this).

 

Food for thought indeed.

Edited January 8 by alias

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I now can't remember if it was CRT or BW before them, but around the time of the take over, who had to survey the canals looking for culverts because they found that they had never been fully recorded. 

Then proceeded to put flights of stairs from the towpath down to the culverts, along with locked gates at the top and notices saying they were for staff access only.

Edited January 8 by David Mack

[IanD]

36 minutes ago, alias said:

 

Interesting article, it's here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jan/08/labour-british-state-uk-economy-government

 

The article goes on to suggest that the solution to these woes is increased state intervention and investment in growth areas as part of an industrial strategy as an alternative to obeisance to market forces (and suggests that even the US as champions of the free market have proceeded to do this).

 

Food for thought indeed.

But, but -- that can't possibly work, it's socialist!!! (or communist, according to Trump) ... 😉 

[MtB]

10 hours ago, IanD said:

But, but -- that can't possibly work, it's socialist!!!

 

Nice to see you finally grasping that socialism doesn't work.

 

 

 

[TID Tug Tony]

21 hours ago, magnetman said:

If the CRT are the only organisation funding the embankment at Whitchurch maybe it should be just a canal and no towpath as this part is obsolete. Yes I need a landing point for the lift bridge but other than that why would the path be needed? It just gets used by people who are not contributing.

 

 

 

That's not quite true!  I'm not a boat owner, I hope to be one day, but I've been enjoying walking along various towpaths and taking in the heritage and history of our wonderful canal system, so as I was aware that I wasn't contributing directly towards them, I decided to join the CRT Friends scheme and pay my way through that. Yes, I know it doesn't compare with license fees, but given there are also boat owners who don't pay their way, I'm doing a little bit more than they are! I'd be delighted if the CRT could, somehow, get all the towpath users to pay an annual contribution as I don't believe in getting something for nothing but that, sadly, is never going to happen.

[David Mack]

On 08/01/2026 at 07:57, magnetman said:

If the CRT are the only organisation funding the embankment at Whitchurch maybe it should be just a canal and no towpath as this part is obsolete. Yes I need a landing point for the lift bridge but other than that why would the path be needed? It just gets used by people who are not contributing.

The new embankment needs a top width either side of the channel to provide support to the water. So the space for the towpath comes for 'free'.  Ever noticed that on contour canals, where one side of the canal is dug slightly into the natural ground and the other side is banked up, the towpath is almost always on the downhill side, on the 'free' land?

Every time I have been to Whitchurch, boats have been moored against the towpath in the breach area - I was moored there a few months before the breach. So the towpath is being used by boating contributors to CRT's finances.

Use of canal infrastructure by those who don't make a direct financial contribution is the justification for the government grant to CRT.

 

[magnetman]

Yes I realise that from an engineering perspective but keeping it as a footpath has an ongoing cost.

 

This cost should not be borne by the navigation authority because the towpath is not an integral part of the waterway for users of vessels like it was when there were horses.

 

Itis mostly used by other people. 

 

 

Boats definitely should not be mooring there. I don't know f it is in any of the original byelaws but it would be unsurprising to find that mooring on embanked sections was disallowed by canal companies.

 

The canal itself was a trade route not a holiday park.

 

 

[David Mack]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Boats definitely should not be mooring there. I don't know f it is in any of the original byelaws but it would be unsurprising to find that mooring on embanked sections was disallowed by canal companies.

 

The canal itself was a trade route not a holiday park.

But the canal now is a holiday park, and needs to be managed as such. I imagine there are businesses in Whitchurch that benefit from the ability of boats to moor here.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, David Mack said:

But the canal now is a holiday park, and needs to be managed as such. I imagine there are businesses in Whitchurch that benefit from the ability of boats to moor here.

Yes, see Narrowboat World about a Café that fears they will have to close down after 25 years.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Yes, see Narrowboat World about a Café that fears they will have to close down after 25 years.

Saw that on the BBC website. They are at Grindley Brook locks, so yes there will be fewer boats passing through while the breach is repaired, but how many of their customers are boaters? Far more towpath walkers I would have thought, and they will still be around.

[Rob-M]

Been mostly car drivers in that cafe when we have visited.

[Ray T]

36 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Been mostly car drivers in that café when we have visited.

Off topic, but it is similar at the café at the top of Hatton Locks, mostly populated cyclists, walkers and dog walkers.

Once starting down the locks there are no moorings anyway. The nearest moorings are above the top lock.

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Saw that on the BBC website. They are at Grindley Brook locks, so yes there will be fewer boats passing through while the breach is repaired, but how many of their customers are boaters? Far more towpath walkers I would have thought, and they will still be around.

I think most of their customers are walkers who have a drink and something to eat watching the boats go through the locks. I have only visited once while boating up there 

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think most of their customers are walkers who have a drink and something to eat watching the boats go through the locks. I have only visited once while boating up there 

The absence of boats passing through the locks may make the cafe less of an attraction. But by the time the main summer season gets into swing, most of the non-boaty walker customers will have forgotten about the breach (if it ever registered in the first place). So I don't think it will have much impact on customer numbers.

[Stroudwater1]

7 hours ago, Ray T said:

Off topic, but it is similar at the café at the top of Hatton Locks, mostly populated cyclists, walkers and dog walkers.

Once starting down the locks there are no moorings anyway. The nearest moorings are above the top lock.

 

We’ve moored a couple of times on the lower long pounds Ray, quite nice there. The moorings above the locks are quite dark and bleak in the Summer with tree growth we find

[David Mack]

My contribution to the income of cafes at Grindley Brook and Hatton has been limited to purchase of 2 or 3 ice creams while boating through.

[Guest]

On 04/01/2026 at 14:03, Tony Brooks said:

 

Reported to get it merged with the existing topic.

 

I did not watch the video so have no idea who compiled the report, too much stuff on YouTube videos just seem to flog the originator's pet hobbyhorse. So can the OP tell me what qualifications the originator has to produce such a report and who commissioned it.

Eyes and the fraenkel report would allow most civvies to see the lack of statutory duty!

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, Wildling said:

Eyes and the fraenkel report would allow most civvies to see the lack of statutory duty!

 

So not an answer to the question I posted. It seems the report is just another mouthy YouTube blogger looking for clicks, otherwise an answer would have been given long ago.

[Alan de Enfield]

41 minutes ago, Wildling said:

Eyes and the fraenkel report would allow most civvies to see the lack of statutory duty!

 

You are unlikely to get your wish and have your account closed whilst you keep posting -make your mind up !

 

Edited February 25 by Alan de Enfield

[Ken X]

On 09/01/2026 at 08:47, magnetman said:

Boats definitely should not be mooring there. I don't know f it is in any of the original byelaws but it would be unsurprising to find that mooring on embanked sections was disallowed by canal companies.

 

The canal itself was a trade route not a holiday park.

 

 

I suspect those days are long behind us. 

 

We are quilty of mooring at this location on more than one occasion as it is handy to pop into Whitchurch.  On one memorable visit in January of 2015 it was practically impossible to get into the Whitchurch arm as it was heavily frozen.

 

The other embanked mooring which immediately springs to mind is the site of the Dutton breach on the T & M where C&RT have now installed a hard bank complete with "mooring rings, boats for the use of."  Having said that, as we gazed over the valley and eyed up the marker on the towpath it occurred to us it would be a wild ride if history was to repeat itself.  Still a very nice mooring though and we often use it.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You are unlikely to get your wish and have your account closed whilst you keep posting -make your mind up !

 

It would take one legal letter via gdpr to close my account but I'm not needing to go nuclear I just don't like the smooth brains on here repeating mantras and ignorances.. I'm guessing the main admin is on holiday, so perhaps I need to get banned? What do you think the quickest way would be? 

21 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

So not an answer to the question I posted. It seems the report is just another mouthy YouTube blogger looking for clicks, otherwise an answer would have been given long ago.

Google dredging priority trigger foi

 

All the information for the k and a is in that document, feel free to foi your local branch to see how much of your maintenance is in the 'red' rather than reply some vague anti YouTube post. Even my completely untrained mate once said 'is it safe to have trees on the side of the canal don't the roots go through?'

20 hours ago, Ken X said:

I suspect those days are long behind us. 

 

We are quilty of mooring at this location on more than one occasion as it is handy to pop into Whitchurch.  On one memorable visit in January of 2015 it was practically impossible to get into the Whitchurch arm as it was heavily frozen.

 

The other embanked mooring which immediately springs to mind is the site of the Dutton breach on the T & M where C&RT have now installed a hard bank complete with "mooring rings, boats for the use of."  Having said that, as we gazed over the valley and eyed up the marker on the towpath it occurred to us it would be a wild ride if history was to repeat itself.  Still a very nice mooring though and we often use it.

ITS THE TREE ROOTS NOT THE BOATERS. 

 

They do not actively maintain their resouvouir or embankment vegetation, it breaches a small stream and the fast moving trickle gets bigger and bigger. A well built embankment will not fail if maintained, they are not maintaining the infrastructure, they do 2 strims a year in most places, no tree work at all, no engineer recommendations followed. 

 

Just in time neoliberalism does not work for engineering projects, you cant temu it it just breaches and causes millions in damage.

 

Look at wilts and Berks trust REBUILDING canals with less £££