Washing Machines (Again!)

[SandyD]

Hi, we are thinking of getting an automatic washer for the boat, we already have a little twin tub machine that has served very well this year but it takes up a lot of room in the bathroom, so we would like to get one that can be plumbed in rather than being filled and emptied in the shower.

 

Ideally we would like one that would fit in the bottom of a cupboard (52cm wide, 45cm deep) and run off our 1600w victron inverter (yes I understand that some machines don't like inverters and that mine may be underpowered). A few have been mentioned on this forum and I have searched them out on the internet but I can't find one for sale, can anyone reccomend anywhere to look for a new one?

 

Thanks 

[Gybe Ho]

The half sized load (3.5kg) Zanussi Aquacycle 1300 was popular a decade ago but it was notorious for its temperamental electronic brain that would not tolerate the slightest momentary wobble from a Victron invertor 230v power supply. From memory my washing machine peaks below 600w on a cold cycle or spin, however the heating element would push a 1600w invertor to the limit.

 

Spacewise 52cm wide would be very tight and for depth you would want 52cm plus extra for pipe routing behind the machine.

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, SandyD said:

Hi, we are thinking of getting an automatic washer for the boat, we already have a little twin tub machine that has served very well this year but it takes up a lot of room in the bathroom, so we would like to get one that can be plumbed in rather than being filled and emptied in the shower.

 

Ideally we would like one that would fit in the bottom of a cupboard (52cm wide, 45cm deep) and run off our 1600w victron inverter (yes I understand that some machines don't like inverters and that mine may be underpowered). A few have been mentioned on this forum and I have searched them out on the internet but I can't find one for sale, can anyone reccomend anywhere to look for a new one?

 

Thanks 

 

Unforunately I think the two compact makes Candy and Zanussi are no longer made, and like you I am struggling to find an alternative.

[Peanut]

Wall mounted, small load, but might fit, it is a washing machine, there is a range to chose from.

 

https://smartwashing.co.uk/product-category/wall-mounted-washing-machines/

 

Here a U-tube video of one being installed in a yacht.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcxbtPB4eig

 

[cheesegas]

3 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Unforunately I think the two compact makes Candy and Zanussi are no longer made, and like you I am struggling to find an alternative.

The Zanussi 3kg ZWC1301 has been rebranded and sold as the AEG LC53502 - it's also now been discontinued, but I know people who have bought B stock/graded ones from various online retailers recently.

 

It will however probably not run off your inverter, even if you disable the heating element and fill with hot water. The motor speed controller chops up the waveform in a way the inverter doesn't like; when it gets to the first rinse cycle (around 30 minutes in), the drum will struggle to rotate when it's full of water. The only solution is to plug in a 500w resistive load like a little fan heater.

 

Most compact machines have heating elements which are 1500-2000w, so your inverter is likely to be too small unless you fill with hot water or use a cold cycle - which the Zanussi/AEG lacks.

 

I fully agree on the twin tub being an awkward thing if you're living on board and using it regularly - I had one for a couple of months and gave it away shortly after.

Edited January 4 by cheesegas

[David Mack]

33 minutes ago, Peanut said:

Wall mounted, small load, but might fit, it is a washing machine, there is a range to chose from.

 

https://smartwashing.co.uk/product-category/wall-mounted-washing-machines/

 

Here a U-tube video of one being installed in a yacht.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcxbtPB4eig

 

There's loads of machines on that site, and the ones I clicked on all link to Amazon listings. I suspect many of them are the same machine being sold by different sellers.

And they are very small. This is the capability from one of the ads I clicked on.

Not going to wash a duvet cover and sheets in that!

[Peanut]

If you have hot water available, then you could fit a mixer valve and fill the machine at 30°C to reduce the power demand.

 

[cheesegas]

1 minute ago, Peanut said:

If you have hot water available, then you could fit a mixer valve and fill the machine at 30°C to reduce the power demand.

The heater in a washing machine is either on or off - filling with hot water might reduce the time the element is on for, but it'll still draw its rated power. If that's too much for the inverter it'll still trip.

 

As mentioned, the issue with Victron inverters and that Zanussi is nothing to do with the amount of power - it's to do with the motor speed controller. Fully disabling the heating element doesn't change anything unfortunately.

[nicknorman]

3 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

The heater in a washing machine is either on or off - filling with hot water might reduce the time the element is on for, but it'll still draw its rated power. If that's too much for the inverter it'll still trip.

I disagree. If you select a 40C wash and fill with water at 45C, the heater will never kick in.

[Gybe Ho]

The recommended community fix is to increase the Victron invertor voltage to 240v.

[Peanut]

I think, that if a refurbished 3Kg AEG machine is not available, then the OP will need to find space for a larger machine. There is a 400mm wide top loader available, but 600mm deep.

[mrsmelly]

16 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I disagree. If you select a 40C wash and fill with water at 45C, the heater will never kick in.

On one of my boats I plumbed the washing machine into the Paloma hot water outlet. I found a setting that gave hot water and as you say it disabled the heater element. When wash cycles had finished we simply turned paloma off for cold water rinses. 

[Llamedos]

We had the compact Candy one on our boat but never used it. I tried to give it away for ages so we could repurpose the cupboard for something else. In the end I took it to the tip last year. You could have had it for free. 
 

The previous owners of our boat also had a tumble dryer (yes a tumble dryer 😱😳) which ran off a travel power generator. In order to generate enough power for the tumble dryer to work they used to have to run the engine at full tilt. Mooring next to them on washday (which apparently was most days) must have been a delightful experience 😁. 
 

The tumble dryer also made a one way trip to the tip. I was really glad to see that go. 

[Gybe Ho]

4 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I disagree. If you select a 40C wash and fill with water at 45C, the heater will never kick in.

 

The body of the washing machine and the drum turning aeration will chill the water. The standard narrowboater trick is to select a cold wash and fill with external stove heated water.

[cheesegas]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

I disagree. If you select a 40C wash and fill with water at 45C, the heater will never kick in.

Sorry, I don't think I was clear - I was saying that if you fill a machine which has an 1800w element with 30C water and select a 40C wash, it'll still draw 1800w and trip a 1600va inverter. It just won't draw 1800w for as long as it only has to raise the temperature by 10C.

 

I have also come across some machines which switch the element on for a few seconds, no matter what the temperature of the water is in the drum. There's probably some sort of routine it has to go through - turn element on, check water temp, if it's high enough turn it off again. With a bit of hysteresis.

 

54 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

On one of my boats I plumbed the washing machine into the Paloma hot water outlet. I found a setting that gave hot water and as you say it disabled the heater element. When wash cycles had finished we simply turned paloma off for cold water rinses. 

Yep, this is what I do on my Zanussi ZWC1300, except with a thermostatic mixer valve - the element doesn't come on at all. However, it needs a 500w resistive load plugged in at the same time for the rinse cycles (where the heating element isn't used at all) or else the drum fails to spin once it's full of water.

[Russ T]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

On one of my boats I plumbed the washing machine into the Paloma hot water outlet. I found a setting that gave hot water and as you say it disabled the heater element. When wash cycles had finished we simply turned paloma off for cold water rinses. 

We do that. Just switch the Paloma to pilot. Set a reminder on Alexa.

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

I disagree. If you select a 40C wash and fill with water at 45C, the heater will never kick in.

Interestingly or not I used to fill mine with hot water 40deg and select the 30deg wash. You would think that it would not switch on the heating element, however it used to get to the heating part and the element would come on for a millisecond before the thermostat/electronics decided it wasn't needed. This was enough to trip my inverter.  A right PITA.

[mrsmelly]

13 minutes ago, Russ T said:

We do that. Just switch the Paloma to pilot. Set a reminder on Alexa.

Mine was a " Pre Alexa " Boat 

[Steve Hayes]

I’ve had a TMV fitted to both our boats, set to the default 42deg outlet temp, the washing machines both pretty close to the calorifier.

what we have found that with a warm water rinse, as long as you get the clothes out as the machine finishes you get washing that not only dries quicker but also easier to hang and get crease free.

[Phoenix_V]

No idea whether its any good but there is this, cheap too https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CHVTLQ6W/?coliid=I3OX9U1FK7A9AM&colid=16ROWSQE6UN83&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

[cheesegas]

17 hours ago, Gybe Ho said:

The recommended community fix is to increase the Victron invertor voltage to 240v.

Unfortunately this does not work. I put a scope on the supply and the waveform is a choppy mess - it's the speed control which is the issue. Got a better digital scope now which can capture the screen so I'll do it again some time and post the results.

 

17 hours ago, Gybe Ho said:

The body of the washing machine and the drum turning aeration will chill the water. The standard narrowboater trick is to select a cold wash and fill with external stove heated water.

This certainly does have an effect, but all you have to do is set the thermostatic valve a little higher to account for it. My valve is set to 40 degrees which means a 30 degree cycle does not switch the heating element on. Also, none of the 3kg automatic machines have a standard cold cycle - the only one is the Wool, which takes hours and uses more water.