Comments invited on first boat, please

[JohnnieFlowers]

Hello everyone.

As a couple of newbies getting ready to take the plunge, this one caught our eye today.

We intend to cc.

Having read many threads on this amazing forum, I think that the positives for us are it’s age, layout, lithiums, 12v appliances and a decent amount of solar. And a respected broker. Please correct me if any of those are wrong or not as positive as I think.

The composting toilet will, I know, attract some negativity, but it’s certainly not a deal breaker for us.

Also, with the results of a spring ‘25 hull survey available, would it still be wise to have it out of the water for another one? Or more advantageous to offer a quick sale?

Any comments from all you experienced boaters will be very gratefully received.

Thank you.

2196.pdf

[Lady M]

Lots of beds but not many cupboards.

[cheesegas]

All looks good apart from a couple of things in my opinion, coming from a CC'r of 5 years who bought the second boat he saw...

 

The water tank is small, at 350 litres. Most boats have a 500-600 litre tank or bigger. It's got a full size washing machine too; the small water water isn't going to let you run this often, and you're going to need to really ration water which isn't much fun. I have an old Liverpool boat with a big 1000 litre tank - if I'm in one place for a couple of weeks, it's very nice being able to run the washing machine twice and not ration water. I'd recommend looking for one with a bigger tank.

 

The other thing which is a bit odd is the replacement drive plate and engine mounts on a 2017 boat. These are consumable wear items which usually last a lot longer, but thinking about it, this does actually tie in with the relatively high engine hours for the age. Not a problem as long as it's been regularly serviced though.

 

I personally think a cruiser stern is best for a liveaboard - I have one, and my partner's boat has a trad. I absolutely detest clambering in and out of the damn thing, the dance with having to take a backpack off, thread yourself inside or fully undo the slide and two doors... You might find that the lack of access from the front is annoying though, especially if you're mooring in semi-wild areas like the Thames or the Stort.

 

edit: Also, bear in mind that whatever boat you post on here to invite comments on, someone will find something. There's no perfect boat but it's up to you to balance the good and the bad bits out, which can be difficult if it's your first boat!

Edited December 11, 2025 by cheesegas

[David Mack]

Looks good on paper.

Dinette is stated to be only 5'6" long. Is that correct? If so it won't make a full length double bed.

Exterior paint job is very bland, but that's a matter of taste!

I would look at the existing survey, and note who did it. If you can, speak to the surveyor to see if he will tell you anything verbally (off the record) he didn't put in the report. Or whether you can 'buy' the survey. Then decide whether to trust the survey or commission your own.

[matty40s]

Yes, good broker, yes, seems good price for the year, do I like it...NO!

It is the classic clone boat, no character, no real craftsmanship sticking the inside together...more shopfitted than built.

The front ends are useless, and ugly...

The interior is cheap white faced ply, the T&G isnt T&G, it is MDF sheets pressed into a T&G look sheet,  kitchen oversized, which compromises the whole living area.

Composting loo, where do you store your compost? 

For someone that hasnt seen a properly built narrowboat it's probably lovely/pretty/just like my flat in Harrow... but it will not be a good or cheap living experience.

It doesn't matter who buys it, it will be back on sale in under 2 years.

 

[Mike Hurley]

Out of all the boats on their website, that is the most uninspiring,  all the others are nicer.

[Tonka]

9 hours ago, matty40s said:

Yes, good broker, yes, seems good price for the year, do I like it...NO!

It is the classic clone boat, no character, no real craftsmanship sticking the inside together...more shopfitted than built.

The front ends are useless, and ugly...

The interior is cheap white faced ply, the T&G isnt T&G, it is MDF sheets pressed into a T&G look sheet,  kitchen oversized, which compromises the whole living area.

Composting loo, where do you store your compost? 

For someone that hasnt seen a properly built narrowboat it's probably lovely/pretty/just like my flat in Harrow... but it will not be a good or cheap living experience.

It doesn't matter who buys it, it will be back on sale in under 2 years.

 

And he will  have seen the boat in the flesh so to speak. I wish I had of read your comment before downloading the boat details.

[cheesegas]

9 hours ago, matty40s said:

Composting loo, where do you store your compost? 

Yep, on a pretty new boat this is an issue if you're overly concerned about cosmetics and 'lines' rather than practicality. You need storage. I used to have a Hotbin on the rear gas locker but that was a pain to move off, so now I have a system of plastic boxes in a wooden roof box under a solar panel on the roof. Please do bear in mind it needs to be kept for at least a year to break down!

 

OP, if you're thinking of being in a marina/mooring permanently in the future though, a compost toilet isn't the best option as very few moorings have facility for disposal. For CCing though, if you don't mind interacting with your leavings, it's by far the best option in my opinion and experience, having had both a cassette toilet and pumpout.

 

(not to turn this into another toilet discussion thread, but you will get a lot of negative replies on here from people who do not have a dry toilet and composting system and have little real-world experience of it) 

Edited December 12, 2025 by cheesegas
half finished sentence

[MtB]

12 hours ago, JohnnieFlowers said:

The composting toilet will, I know, attract some negativity, but it’s certainly not a deal breaker for us.

 

Which suggests you just haven't thought about it properly. 

 

As Matty asks, where will you store the poo? Or are you planning to just desiccate it then sneak it into the CRT bins or spread it on the side of the towpath? Do tell! 

 

 

[JohnnieFlowers]

10 hours ago, Lady M said:

Lots of beds but not many cupboards.

Don’t need the beds. Tooo many.

But overlooked the dearth of cupboards, so thanks Lady M

[JohnnieFlowers]

10 hours ago, cheesegas said:

All looks good apart from a couple of things in my opinion, coming from a CC'r of 5 years who bought the second boat he saw...

 

The water tank is small, at 350 litres. Most boats have a 500-600 litre tank or bigger. It's got a full size washing machine too; the small water water isn't going to let you run this often, and you're going to need to really ration water which isn't much fun. I have an old Liverpool boat with a big 1000 litre tank - if I'm in one place for a couple of weeks, it's very nice being able to run the washing machine twice and not ration water. I'd recommend looking for one with a bigger tank.

 

The other thing which is a bit odd is the replacement drive plate and engine mounts on a 2017 boat. These are consumable wear items which usually last a lot longer, but thinking about it, this does actually tie in with the relatively high engine hours for the age. Not a problem as long as it's been regularly serviced though.

 

I personally think a cruiser stern is best for a liveaboard - I have one, and my partner's boat has a trad. I absolutely detest clambering in and out of the damn thing, the dance with having to take a backpack off, thread yourself inside or fully undo the slide and two doors... You might find that the lack of access from the front is annoying though, especially if you're mooring in semi-wild areas like the Thames or the Stort.

 

edit: Also, bear in mind that whatever boat you post on here to invite comments on, someone will find something. There's no perfect boat but it's up to you to balance the good and the bad bits out, which can be difficult if it's your first boat!

Good advice about the water tank, and very important. Thanks.

And also about the trad stern and access. 
We haven’t looked around any boats ‘in the flesh’ yet, because the house won’t be ready to rent out until next spring. Hopefully things like access will be obvious even to newbies once we start clambering aboard a few.

[haggis]

11 hours ago, cheesegas said:

I personally think a cruiser stern is best for a liveaboard - I have one, and my partner's boat has a trad. I absolutely detest clambering in and out of the damn thing, the dance with having to take a backpack off, thread yourself inside or fully undo the slide and two doors... You might find that the lack of access from the front is annoying though, especially if you're mooring in semi-wild areas like the Thames or the Stort.

 

I agree that some trad sterns are not easy to negotiate but I think it depends on the type of access. With some trads you have to step down then turn and bend almost double to step to the side before stepping down into the cabin. The other type is just three steps down in a straight line from stern to cabin.  before we bought Kelpie (which has straight access) we drove a couple of hundred miles to look at a boat only to discover that it had the twisted access. We about turned and came home as my back wouldn't allow all that bending. 

Edited December 12, 2025 by haggis

[JohnnieFlowers]

9 hours ago, matty40s said:

Yes, good broker, yes, seems good price for the year, do I like it...NO!

It is the classic clone boat, no character, no real craftsmanship sticking the inside together...more shopfitted than built.

The front ends are useless, and ugly...

The interior is cheap white faced ply, the T&G isnt T&G, it is MDF sheets pressed into a T&G look sheet,  kitchen oversized, which compromises the whole living area.

Composting loo, where do you store your compost? 

For someone that hasnt seen a properly built narrowboat it's probably lovely/pretty/just like my flat in Harrow... but it will not be a good or cheap living experience.

It doesn't matter who buys it, it will be back on sale in under 2 years.

 

Thanks for your reply.

We watched Rugby Boats utube video of it last night after I posted on here.

You have summed up perfectly the lack of craftsmanship and character which was very noticeable on film and, having initially been excited by the website description, our enthusiasm has rather faded.

As EmmaFlowers pointed out this morning, it doesn’t really matter how many boxes it ticks in equipment terms, she still wants a nicely finished and homely place to live….

[cheesegas]

16 minutes ago, JohnnieFlowers said:

We haven’t looked around any boats ‘in the flesh’ yet, because the house won’t be ready to rent out until next spring. Hopefully things like access will be obvious even to newbies once we start clambering aboard a few.

It sounds daft but bring a backpack of a size you're likely to carry every day, and then bring it inside and out a few times. We're looking for a bigger boat at the moment and easy access is very high on the priority list.

 

13 minutes ago, haggis said:

I agree that some trad sterns are not easy to negotiate but I think it depends on the type of access. With some trads you have to step down then turn and bend almost double to step to the side before stepping down into the cabin. The other type is just three steps down in a straight line from stern to cabin.  before we bought Kelpie (which has straight access) we drove a couple of hundred miles to look at a boat onto to discover that it had the twisted access. We about turned and came home as my back wouldn't allow all that bending. 

True, I'd forgotten about boats with an engine room when you step down from the back doors and walk straight ahead. My partner's has the engine under the back doors - even after having the floor dropped as low as it can go, it's still a pain in the butt to step down, duck, then negotiate a second internal door into the bedroom. Being only 40' though, a mid engine room would eat into the living space massively. All about compromises!

[Blueboat]

By far the best bit of a boat in my opinion is the bow, to sit out in . The rest of the boat is for getting the bow somewhere nice,even in bad weather with a cratch cover on, you can enjoy terrible weather, storms rain , thunder storms lightening, all look and feel great from the bow. It’s the best pub in the whole of the canal system. I would not consider a boat without a cratch area to sit and enjoy.

[JohnnieFlowers]

42 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Which suggests you just haven't thought about it properly. 

 

As Matty asks, where will you store the poo? Or are you planning to just desiccate it then sneak it into the CRT bins or spread it on the side of the towpath? Do tell! 

 

 

Thanks for your reply. A little condescending, perhaps, but never mind.

Actually, we have given composting a great deal of thought. I have a degree in soil science, and spent much of my working life making compost on the family plant nursery, and I am pretty confident that it can be done in plastic containers on a boat. Matty’s comments, which were far more helpful, confirm that it can be done successfully.

And, for your information, I have spent many years walking the footpaths and towpaths of the Midlands, and nothing p….es me off more than seeing boaters’ rubbish (litter, mangled plastic that they have pulled off their prop, diy leftovers, little mountains of ash, etc) dumped in the hedges or on the towpath itself. So, no, I will not be leaving anything, or putting it in CRT bins.

[Tonka]

9 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

It sounds daft but bring a backpack of a size you're likely to carry every day, and then bring it inside and out a few times. We're looking for a bigger boat at the moment and easy access is very high on the priority list.

 

True, I'd forgotten about boats with an engine room when you step down from the back doors and walk straight ahead. My partner's has the engine under the back doors - even after having the floor dropped as low as it can go, it's still a pain in the butt to step down, duck, then negotiate a second internal door into the bedroom. Being only 40' though, a mid engine room would eat into the living space massively. All about compromises!

Backpacks are detachable from the person.

 

Which taxi company do you use or can you only use a bus

Edited December 12, 2025 by Tonka
Extra info

[Lady M]

Of course, having a second door between the bedroom and the outside means the bedroom is much less likely to be draughty.  Also, in my view, the main access should always be the other end of the boat from the bedroom.  On our trad, the bedroom is at the back and the main access is via the front doors, into the saloon.  I believe the benefits of having a dry bilged engine room are under-rated.

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, JohnnieFlowers said:

Thanks for your reply. A little condescending, perhaps, but never mind.

Actually, we have given composting a great deal of thought. I have a degree in soil science, and spent much of my working life making compost on the family plant nursery, and I am pretty confident that it can be done in plastic containers on a boat. Matty’s comments, which were far more helpful, confirm that it can be done successfully.

And, for your information, I have spent many years walking the footpaths and towpaths of the Midlands, and nothing p….es me off more than seeing boaters’ rubbish (litter, mangled plastic that they have pulled off their prop, diy leftovers, little mountains of ash, etc) dumped in the hedges or on the towpath itself. So, no, I will not be leaving anything, or putting it in CRT bins.

 

 

All fair comment. I'm pleased to read you HAVE thought about it properly and are well-qualified to know. 

 

I too get pished off with boater rubbish on towpaths, especially when I then read moans on here about how expensive the cheap-as-chips CRT licence is, along with criticism of CRT and how useless they are at dealing with disposal of boaters' waste.

 

 

 

[cheesegas]

2 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Backpacks are detachable from the person

Yep, but it’s a lot easier to walk in and then take everything off. Maybe it’s a personal thing but I hate doing it on my partner’s trad - backpack off, place on wet hatch, duck inside, grab backpack. If it’s heavy and full of work tools it’s even worse. 

6 minutes ago, Lady M said:

Of course, having a second door between the bedroom and the outside means the bedroom is much less likely to be draughty. 

I’ve got an external door at my feet on my boat and there’s no draught at all. Maybe on a badly fitting door there might be, but I feel for ease of access I’d rather risk the draught!

[IanD]

49 minutes ago, JohnnieFlowers said:

Don’t need the beds. Tooo many.

But overlooked the dearth of cupboards, so thanks Lady M

A lot of boats -- especially ex-hire ones -- prioritise things like kitchen/living/sleeping/bathroom space over storage, and just don't have enough places to put "stuff".

 

Bad enough for a hire trip, worse for expended cruising, worse still for liveaboards. Make sure there's enough storage space, cupboard or drawers -- hanging wardrobes are a waste of space*** for most people, shelves or drawers hold a lot more clothing/linen. Pull-out drawers -- even deep ones -- make better use of galley space than cupboards with internal shelves, because you can use the full depth.

 

*** but a tall wet hanging cupboard just inside the stern doors is pretty much essential... 😉 

Edited December 12, 2025 by IanD

[Tonka]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

 

*** but a tall wet hanging cupboard just inside the stern doors is pretty much essential... 😉 

So why haven't you got one

[cheesegas]

23 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Which taxi company do you use or can you only use a bus

Unsure why the snarky comments? I’m just stating what I find easiest - it may give others something to think about. 
 

I cycle to the nearest station usually, so I also have a Brompton to bring inside. That’s not easy on a trad boat either!

[blackrose]

19 minutes ago, Lady M said:

Also, in my view, the main access should always be the other end of the boat from the bedroom.  

 

 

Why? What's wrong with entering the boat via the bedroom? My main access is at the bow because those doors are easier to get in/out of with no lifting of the very heavy sliding hatch (widebeam). The bedroom is also at the bow, but I actually find it keeps the bedroom well aired. I imagine that if my bedroom wasn't by the main access doors it might get a bit musty in winter without the doors being opened regularly.

[Lady M]

My comment was aimed at narrowboats where pushing past an inline bed while wearing damp clothes is not the best plan, in my opinion.  Not all boats have room for an clothes changing area (with full length cupboard) between the engine room and the bed.  I expect your boat is roomy enough though I'm not sure why you want to show off the bedroom to your guests.  Perhaps it is in a side room and you can close it off.