Windows leaking

[Amber500]

Hello,

I had all my windows re-enamelled in summer, sent a sample of all the seals profiles to suppliers & got a whole set of exact replacements, it all went back together, nice tight fit etc, however when it rains I don't get flooding/dripping it's almost like a capillary action seeping around the seal into the inside thermal break channel. Has anyone experienced this & managed to resolve it ?

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Amber500 said:

Hello,

I had all my windows re-enamelled in summer, sent a sample of all the seals profiles to suppliers & got a whole set of exact replacements, it all went back together, nice tight fit etc, however when it rains I don't get flooding/dripping it's almost like a capillary action seeping around the seal into the inside thermal break channel. Has anyone experienced this & managed to resolve it ?

 

Welcome. Sorry, no, I would not have double-glazed boat windows, which I think you have because of you mentioning the inside thermal break channel, but if they are single glazed, and you mean the inner drip channel then at his time of year I would suspect condensation rather that leaking between the glass, seals, and frame.

 

I thought double-glazed units were sealed with very dry air or gas between the two panes of glass., so there would be no drip channel between the sheets of glass, so i am not sure what you mean - I may be wrong about that on boats, but if so it is a recipe for condensation between the glass panes.

 

Is this, by any chance, secondary double glazing?

[blackrose]

I would doubt it's condensation otherwise I'm sure Amber would have seen that before the windows were taken out.

 

So you've had the glass out of the frames and new seals fitted? Assuming it is a leak then the first thing to establish is whether the leak is from the new window seals or from the seal between the cabin side and the window frames. Although that might be easier said than done.

 

Are they all leaking? How are the windows sealed to the cabin sides? Neoprene tape,  sealant, etc.

Edited December 1 by blackrose

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

I would doubt it's condensation otherwise I'm sure Amber would have seen that before the windows were taken out.

 

So you've had the glass out of the frames and new seals fitted? Assuming it is a leak then the first thing to establish is whether the leak is from the new window seals or from the seal between the cabin side and the window frames. Although that might be easier said than done.

 

Are they all leaking? How are the windows sealed to the cabin sides? Neoprene tape,  sealant, etc.

 

That assumes that she did not reseal them because of water inside the boat, which she misdiagnosed as water leaks rather than recognising condensation. She also talks about an "inside thermal break channel". We need that clarifying and your question answering,

[Amber500]

Hi Guy's

 

Thanks for your quick response, let me update :-

. Not double glazed (single)

. Yes the water is building up in what you call "drip tray"

. Water is definitely seeping between glass & rubber seal

. All windows affected

. Windows screwed to cabin side on top of Sikaflex

. Definitely not condensation

 

[Ex Brummie]

How is the glass fitted into the frames? When I replaced glass in a Channelglaze window, it was a very tight interference fit and it took some not so gentle taps to get the bottom into the correct position to fit the horizontal top. Maybe whilst the profile is correct, the material may be too soft.

[Amber500]

Hi,

Thank you for the reply, yeah same for me, it was channel who supplied the seals, I believe they are channel windows, I had to rub washing up liquid on the surface and give them a good bash to seat them, the frame joints all aligned no gaps so I believe all was correct

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Amber500 said:

Hi Guy's

 

Thanks for your quick response, let me update :-

. Not double glazed (single)

. Yes the water is building up in what you call "drip tray"

. Water is definitely seeping between glass & rubber seal

. All windows affected

. Windows screwed to cabin side on top of Sikaflex

. Definitely not condensation

 

 

Many thanks for clarifying - here is no thermal break on that type of window and you can get a horrendous build up of condensation on the alloy frame given the right (wrong) conditions.

 

The glass can be pushed too far into the frame, or drop too far into the frame   under vibrations over time, so it blocks the drain holes that usually connect that drip tray/channel under the glass and through the outside of the fame. That hole can also block with debris or even excess new enamel. I suggest probing with a cocktail stick from the outside. If they are blocked then water is likely to overflow   down the cabin lining.

 

If you are sure have you have everything seated properly (note the last paragraph) then on a dry day I would start applying Captain Tolleys Creeping Crack Cure all around the joint between glass and seal, assuming the seal(s) are on both sides of the glass. This is not a joke, it is a real product that has low surface tension so it creeps into any small cracks and then drys to form a seal. If everything is assembled corectly then I don't really know why it is leaking, unless the seals are too thin.

[Amber500]

Tony,

 

Thank you for your advise, I was of the train of thought that something clear & very viscous that eventually set would be a solution, I certainly didn't want to start gobbing normal sealants around the problem, it would have ended in a right mess, I think you have handed me that very solution, I'll wait for warmer drier weather & apply it, I'm not in a crisis situation, I just run the Karcher window cleaner along the drip channel & it removes the water perfectly, when I took the windows apart I inspected them thoroughly to understand the construction, there were no drain holes in the frames at all, but again many thanks for your help/advise

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

That assumes that she did not reseal them because of water inside the boat, which she misdiagnosed as water leaks rather than recognising condensation. 

 

Yes that was my assumption. I had credited the OP with enough intelligence not to go to the extent of removing all their windows, having the window frames resurfaced and replacing all the window seals just because of a bit of condensation. If I was wrong in that assumption then it would be the first time I'd ever heard of someone misdiagnosing that issue and going to such extremes.

[David Mack]

39 minutes ago, Amber500 said:

when I took the windows apart I inspected them thoroughly to understand the construction, there were no drain holes in the frames at all,

I would be very surprised if that is the case. Single glazed, non thermally broken windows are inevitably going to get condensation on the inside. That which runs down the glass collects in a channel at the bottom, and every window I have seen has a couple of drains through the frame to the outside, sometimes with a plastic or aluminium cover on the outside. These drains can be blocked by moss and dirt on windows which haven't been cleaned/ maintained, or the glass can slip down and block them. But I wouldn't expect either of these issues on newly reassembled windows.

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

or the glass can slip down and block them. But I wouldn't expect either of these issues on newly reassembled windows.

 

But on DIY assembly there may be the thought "the glass needs pushing right into the channel" (not knoing that the drain holes had to be left clear of the glass.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes that was my assumption. I had credited the OP with enough intelligence not to go to the extent of removing all their windows, having the window frames resurfaced and replacing all the window seals just because of a bit of condensation. If I was wrong in that assumption then it would be the first time I'd ever heard of someone misdiagnosing that issue and going to such extremes.

 

On the information given, I think there was a possibility that the fact that one or two were "leaking" was the "excuse" to get the frames re-enamelled, which the OP may have wanted to do at some time. Maybe it all depends on how many years one has been dealing with customers and their diagnosis of a variety of faults. I know that the chances of them providing a misdiagnosis seems to be high, so other possibilities need to be considered.

1 hour ago, Amber500 said:

Tony,

 

Thank you for your advise, I was of the train of thought that something clear & very viscous that eventually set would be a solution, I certainly didn't want to start gobbing normal sealants around the problem, it would have ended in a right mess, I think you have handed me that very solution, I'll wait for warmer drier weather & apply it, I'm not in a crisis situation, I just run the Karcher window cleaner along the drip channel & it removes the water perfectly, when I took the windows apart I inspected them thoroughly to understand the construction, there were no drain holes in the frames at all, but again many thanks for your help/advise

 

I have just looked at three styles of windows on the Channelglaze website, and all showed rectangular drain covers at the bottom of the window. These cover the drain holes on the outside, while the holes on the inside do not go further than the drip channel. I don't see how condensation can be dealt with on single glazed windows if there are no drain holes. I would go as far as to say that I have never seen single glazed boat windows without drain holes. They are usually about 4 or 5 mm diameter holes drilled through the two sides of the channel the glass is pushed into, leaving a gap below the glass, so water can drain below the glass. The holes may have a fancy cover over them so you can't see them from the outside. If the enamelling was done with such covers in place, the drains may well now be blocked.

 

For your application, you want the least viscous product you can find, so it creeps into small cracks.