Theft on North Oxford. Beware.

[Floatymark]

In the past few days I’ve had 3 x 220ah Victron AGMs stolen from the engine bay. The boat was moored near Hillmorton. Pro job and probably boaters as these batteries are massive and 65KG each and were very difficult to get into and out of the bay. I have the battery serial numbers so beware if offered on the cheap and check with me here. This stretch of canal has always felt very ‘safe’ so I am shocked at this theft. Boaters stealing from boaters. Heartbreaking. 

[Tonka]

Crime number ?

[Gybe Ho]

Not too much collateral damage I hope.

 

For the benefit of the rest of us could you offer some circumstantial details. You were not onboard I assume, day/night, was it an isolated towpath mooring, had you recently been clocked taking delivery of the batteries, had you been discussing batteries or winter power with other boaters, how long had you been at your mooring?

[nicknorman]

3 hours ago, Floatymark said:

In the past few days I’ve had 3 x 220ah Victron AGMs stolen from the engine bay. The boat was moored near Hillmorton. Pro job and probably boaters as these batteries are massive and 65KG each and were very difficult to get into and out of the bay. I have the battery serial numbers so beware if offered on the cheap and check with me here. This stretch of canal has always felt very ‘safe’ so I am shocked at this theft. Boaters stealing from boaters. Heartbreaking. 

Sorry to hear that - very annoying is an understatement! And it's not just the financial loss, it is the feeling of invasion of your space, violation of your privacy - even if it was just the engine bay -  fretting about when it might happen again etc which is probably worse

[Floatymark]

2 hours ago, Tonka said:

Crime number ?

Waiting for the email from Police. 

[David Mack]

Were these taken from a locked space, or did the thief just need to lift unsecured deck boards?

[MtB]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

Sorry to hear that - very annoying is an understatement! And it's not just the financial loss, it is the feeling of invasion of your space, violation of your privacy - even if it was just the engine bay -  fretting about when it might happen again etc which is probably worse

 

 

And not only that lot, but nothing works when you get back to the boat plus a fridge full of warm food!

 

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

I know someone who had their inboard engine stolen. He was out at work. The Boat was loved in and in use daily but he was moored by a small road. It was someone in a van. A lot of thefts from Boats are planned and executed by most likely two fairly strong males and a van. Like a job. 

 

It looks like it was done from another Boat but it often isn't. 

 

 

[blackrose]

43 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Were these taken from a locked space, or did the thief just need to lift unsecured deck boards?

 

Although it will be of no benefit to the OP it's a good question for others reading this. I'm able to lock my deck boards but most others with cruiser sterns aren't. 

 

I know I've repeated this story a few times over the years, but 25 years ago I met a guy on a narrow boat who went away for a week and when he came back to his boat the engine, gearbox and solid fuel stove had been stolen. Definitely by other boaters as it was at least half a mile from the nearest bridge or vehicle access. That made me very security conscious. 

 

These days, especially as people start switching to expensive and long lasting LFP batteries (good resale value), you can't just leave them in an unlocked space unless you want to lose them. I daresay the OP's big AGM batteries weren't cheap either!

 

Edited December 1 by blackrose

[Floatymark]

3 hours ago, Gybe Ho said:

Not too much collateral damage I hope.

 

For the benefit of the rest of us could you offer some circumstantial details. You were not onboard I assume, day/night, was it an isolated towpath mooring, had you recently been clocked taking delivery of the batteries, had you been discussing batteries or winter power with other boaters, how long had you been at your mooring?

Hiya. Been there 3 days. Away for the weekend. Came back to no power. Been at that mooring before and haven’t had trouble in my 7 years CCing. No discussions that I can remember and little collateral damage which leads me to think it was not random opportunism. 99.9999% of boaters are wonderful people. Shame about the tiny but very unpleasant minority. Thanks for all your kind messages. 

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Were these taken from a locked space, or did the thief just need to lift unsecured deck boards?

Under the hinged engine cover so a little tricky but not physically locked. In a classic stable door/ horse style I shall now be securing these. These batteries are massive and weigh 65kgs each so not a ‘ooooh look, some batteries’ type nickage sadly. 

[mrsmelly]

3 minutes ago, Floatymark said:

Hiya. Been there 3 days. Away for the weekend. Came back to no power. Been at that mooring before and haven’t had trouble in my 7 years CCing. No discussions that I can remember and little collateral damage which leads me to think it was not random opportunism. 99.9999% of boaters are wonderful people. Shame about the tiny but very unpleasant minority. Thanks for all your kind messages. 

Plenty of scum living in houses, you have been very unlucky 😔

[blackrose]

I hope you're able to make an insurance claim for new batteries. I can't remember what the excess is on my policy, I think it's £400 in which case I'd probably still make a claim. Just depends on your policy. 

 

Could it be an opportunity to switch to LFP?

[Floatymark]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

I hope you're able to make an insurance claim for new batteries. I can't remember what the excess is on my policy, I think it's £400 in which case I'd probably still make a claim. Just depends on your policy. 

 

Could it be an opportunity to switch to LFP?

Interestingly I’ve been considering that. Every cloud etc. Is there a simple explanation anyone can give me about making the transition? I have a 125amp upgrade alternator and I understand I need something in between that and the LFP battery to prevent damage to the alternator? All help welcome. I also need to replace the 130kgs on that side of the boat as it’s listing now those big old batteries have gone. Bricks? Pavers? Many thanks dear folk. 

[Tony Brooks]

31 minutes ago, Floatymark said:

Interestingly I’ve been considering that. Every cloud etc. Is there a simple explanation anyone can give me about making the transition? I have a 125amp upgrade alternator and I understand I need something in between that and the LFP battery to prevent damage to the alternator? All help welcome. I also need to replace the 130kgs on that side of the boat as it’s listing now those big old batteries have gone. Bricks? Pavers? Many thanks dear folk. 

 

Others will be along with more knowledge, but the easiest way to upgrade is to leave the alternator charging a lead acid "buffer" battery, often the start battery, and use a B2B charger with suitable settings to charge the LFP bank. So the B2B.  any solar controller and any mains charger needs to have suitable lithium settings or user defined settings for voltages and, in the case of the B2B, maximum current. If you don't want to go down this route then you are into fancy and expensive alternator controllers that will shut the alternator down without causing a high voltage surge, when told to by another bit of kit. Once you start to go down that route, although technically better, it may well be more expensive and complicated.

[magnetman]

3 hours ago, Floatymark said:

Hiya. Been there 3 days. Away for the weekend. Came back to no power. Been at that mooring before and haven’t had trouble in my 7 years CCing. No discussions that I can remember and little collateral damage which leads me to think it was not random opportunism. 99.9999% of boaters are wonderful people. Shame about the tiny but very unpleasant minority. Thanks for all your kind messages. 

Under the hinged engine cover so a little tricky but not physically locked. In a classic stable door/ horse style I shall now be securing these. These batteries are massive and weigh 65kgs each so not a ‘ooooh look, some batteries’ type nickage sadly. 

 

I had similar heavy batteries stolen from a gated Pontoon mooring. Neighbours in an adjacent flat saw it happen. A bloke about 70 years old climbed over the fence and just picked a 60kg battery up like it was a bag of shopping then departed. Some people are very strong. I pulled a muscle just getting them off the Boat. They were scrap so I did not moan but this bloke just picked it up and went back over the fence no problems.

 

 

5 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

 

 

I know I've repeated this story a few times over the years, but 25 years ago I met a guy on a narrow boat who went away for a week and when he came back to his boat the engine, gearbox and solid fuel stove had been stolen. Definitely by other boaters as it was at least half a mile from the nearest bridge or vehicle access. 

I wonder if that was Rob and his son ?

Mark in Rickmansworth. The version I heard was that he was moored just above Springwell lock by the road. 

Edited December 1 by magnetman
Typo

[TheShipsCat]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

A bloke about 70 years old climbed over the fence and just picked a 60kg battery up like it was a bag of shopping then departed.

Gawd,  I wish I had that capacities of that bloke. Not that I want to be nicking batteries for my weekend workout, but, dang.

 

Sorry for the OPs loss, inconvenience, and sense of invasion.  It does set me thinking about security when I'm away.

[blackrose]

The bit of kit most people put between the alternator lead/acid buffer battery and lithium batteries is the Victron Orion XS 50a 12/12v DC -DC charger. It's not that difficult to fit. If I can do it anyone can. 

 

I have an independent LA buffer battery for reasons I won't go into, but as Tony said many people just use their start battery.

 

I think the Orion is limited to 50a output so I don't think you'll get the full performance from your 125a alternator but others will be better able to advise about that. 

 

There's a guy at my mooring who hasn't bothered with any of this and just connected his alternator direct to his lithium batteries without any ill effects. He's done it on 2 different boats. The first had an old low rpm engine and a 90a alternator I think. I assume it was the low rpm which prevented damage to his alternator. He sold that boat and moved onto a widebeam and moved his batteries onto the new boat. Now he's got a massive 260a alternator and he said it's fine. Who knows?

Edited December 2 by blackrose

[Floatymark]

3 hours ago, blackrose said:

The bit of kit most people put between the alternator lead/acid buffer battery and lithium batteries is the Victron Orion XS 50a 12/12v DC -DC charger. It's not that difficult to fit. If I can do it anyone can. 

 

I have an independent LA buffer battery for reasons I won't go into, but as Tony said many people just use their start battery.

 

I think the Orion is limited to 50a output so I don't think you'll get the full performance from your 125a alternator but others will be better able to advise about that. 

 

There's a guy at my mooring who hasn't bothered with any of this and just connected his alternator direct to his lithium batteries without any ill effects. He's done it on 2 different boats. The first had an old low rpm engine and a 90a alternator I think. I assume it was the low rpm which prevented damage to his alternator. He sold that boat and moved onto a widebeam and moved his batteries onto the new boat. Now he's got a massive 260a alternator and he said it's fine. Who knows?

Thanks so much for all your help everyone. I need a bit of faith restoring in human nature and your kindness is doing that so Thankyou. 

[Tony Brooks]

3 hours ago, blackrose said:

think the Orion is limited to 50a output so I don't think you'll get the full performance from your 125a alternator but others will be better able to advise about that. 

 

He won't, but the with lead acids after about an hour he never got its full output for battery charging, and if he has a typical 440Ah battery bank I doubt he ever did for more than a few minutes. On lead acids, a high load like a washing machine or hoover and an inverter may well have drawn the full alternator output, but the B2B will stop that happening. As those that have them know, what looks like a low charge rate is not a problem with LFPs because they will accept all of it 24/7 until they are fully charged.

[IanD]

6 hours ago, blackrose said:

The bit of kit most people put between the alternator lead/acid buffer battery and lithium batteries is the Victron Orion XS 50a 12/12v DC -DC charger. It's not that difficult to fit. If I can do it anyone can. 

 

I have an independent LA buffer battery for reasons I won't go into, but as Tony said many people just use their start battery.

 

I think the Orion is limited to 50a output so I don't think you'll get the full performance from your 125a alternator but others will be better able to advise about that. 

 

There's a guy at my mooring who hasn't bothered with any of this and just connected his alternator direct to his lithium batteries without any ill effects. He's done it on 2 different boats. The first had an old low rpm engine and a 90a alternator I think. I assume it was the low rpm which prevented damage to his alternator. He sold that boat and moved onto a widebeam and moved his batteries onto the new boat. Now he's got a massive 260a alternator and he said it's fine. Who knows?

 

I know someone who used to do fire-eating and he was fine. That doesn't mean it's generally safe or advisable... 😉 

 

Put an LFP system together that's a bit dodgy and you might get away with it, maybe for years. Or the batteries might die early and only last 5 years (or one?) not 20. Or it might go wrong after a few weeks or months when something happens to cause a problem. Or it might all go bang the first time you get an overvoltage disconnect while charging.

 

Do you feel lucky, punk? Well, do ya? 😉 

[robtheplod]

Often wondered how to lock my deck boards into the engine bay.... couldn't see how, but might need to revisit that!

[Lady M]

Have a look at how Sea Otter did it.

[Hudds Lad]

21 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Often wondered how to lock my deck boards into the engine bay.... couldn't see how, but might need to revisit that!

Some sort of cam lock like you get on an arcade cab might work with a longer locking bar. Don't get the round-keyed type though, you can open those with a plastic pen barrel  

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Some sort of cam lock like you get on an arcade cab might work with a longer locking bar. Don't get the round-keyed type though, you can open those with a plastic pen barrel  

How about key-lockable garage door bolts, like these?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Federal-Lock-Enfield-Garage-Bolts/dp/B0FHHHJ3NM

[robtheplod]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

How about key-lockable garage door bolts, like these?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Federal-Lock-Enfield-Garage-Bolts/dp/B0FHHHJ3NM

My worry is drilling into the drainage gutter that goes all the way around my boards... dont want to put holes in that...   at least if the boat sinks nobody will nick bits out of the engine bay?