Hull Survey Results Advice!

[rosypatience]

Hello everyone,

 

I'm looking at a beautiful 26ft Piper boat, 1972. Good quality new engine and nice friendly lay-out. The survey report says this about the hull – I am new to boating and wonder if anyone can advise me on whether this is good or bad?! I'm aware that 1972 is a pretty old boat; the price is just under 13k so pretty cheap for what it is and I have time to do things that need doing: getting new heating sorted, repainting, etc. Any advice would be much appreciated – thank you!

[Alan de Enfield]

 

If you intend to insure this 'fully comprehensive' then you will not be able to do so without more welding work - it seems the minimum thickness insurers will cover is 4mm and you have most of the thickness readings at below 4mm.

 

You can of course insure it 3rd party only but that means if the boat is damaged or 'lost' then you have no insurance and you 'lose' your money. 3rd party insurance effectively means that your boat is not insured, but, if you damage any other boat they will get paid out.

 

3rd party insurance is sufficient to be able to licence the boat.

 

It is that cheap for a reason - "to thin to insure".

 

Its up to you, but I'd walk away and save up more money and buy a boat that you can insure.

Edited November 21, 2025 by Alan de Enfield

[Arthur Marshall]

Surely the overplated sides are a lot more than 4mm, as that's just the thickness of the overplating. There must be some original steel left underneath - same with the rest if it.

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Surely the overplated sides are a lot more than 4mm, as that's just the thickness of the overplating. There must be some original steel left underneath - same with the rest if it.

 

when a boat is doubled, it is only the outer 'skin' that is measured / included - no one can tell the state of the original steel - it could even be perforated.

 

The original steel will continue to corrode beneath the new steel - here is an example of a piece of overplating removed showing the condition of the original ...............

 

 

Photograph 4 shows the faying surface of the doubling plate that was removed and which can be clearly seen to be corroding from the inside outward. It can also be seen in this photograph the doubling plate had been welded to the harpin in places making the doubling plates seam weld porous to water to entering between the doubling plate via the gaps created when the D sections harpins were originally stitch welded in manufacture. The fault would have been compounded by crevice corrosion and a poor maintenance programme though out the vessel’s life.

Edited November 21, 2025 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

On the other hand, the chances of totally losing the boat are vanishingly small, and the OP might take the view that highly improbable loss of the £13k purchase price should they manage to sink it or burn it out, is a risk worth taking in return for the guaranteed fun of possibly many years of boating. 

 

Out of the 35,000 boats on the system, how many a year are a total loss for whatever reason? Four or five a year would be my guess.

 

And if I'm right, the chances of the OP losing their boat to an accident are about once every seven thousand years. 

 

 

[IanD]

58 minutes ago, MtB said:

On the other hand, the chances of totally losing the boat are vanishingly small, and the OP might take the view that highly improbable loss of the £13k purchase price should they manage to sink it or burn it out, is a risk worth taking in return for the guaranteed fun of possibly many years of boating. 

 

Out of the 35,000 boats on the system, how many a year are a total loss for whatever reason? Four or five a year would be my guess.

 

And if I'm right, the chances of the OP losing their boat to an accident are about once every seven thousand years. 

 

 

P.S. Don't worry about the scary post from Alan, he posts this every time anyone mentions overplating -- or the one about the overplated boat sinking because it was too low in the water. There are lots of overplated boats out there and probably 99% of them are absolutely fine... 😉 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

 

P.S. Don't worry about the scary post from Alan, he posts this every time anyone mentions overplating -- or the one about the overplated boat sinking because it was too low in the water. There are lots of overplated boats out there and probably 99% of them are absolutely fine... 😉 

 

Yes there are a number of overplated boats 'out there' but have they been overplated with thicker steel than 4mm ? has the erosion / corrosion on them led to them being below 4mm ?

You might enjoy picking fault with others posts but do you know the answer ?

 

 

Consider the OP, looking to spend her / his / their hard earned pennies on their 1st boat and asks a question for reassurance they are not buying 'trouble'. They get a response with two unquestionable facts :

 

1) the boat has many 'thickness measurements' below 4mm.

2) insurers will not provide fully-comp cover for boats with thinner than 4mm readings.

 

Now the OP is advised to consider if he / she / they want to go ahead with the boat on the basis that they will only be able to get 3rd party cover, and it is pointed out that this is sufficient cover to get a licence.

 

That is not scaremongering.

[junior]

There's a few people on the forum who revel at being negative, and as expected they've already posted on this thread.

 

I wouldn't be overly concerned about those readings on a £13k 1972 boat. 

 

As stated by others, you can't insure a boat of that age 'Fully Comp' with under 4mm readings...however...with those readings I'd be happy to insure just Third Party Only, which you can do regardless of survey result. 

 

If you like the boat and everything else about it is right for you, I'd be going for it.

 

In fact I'd go as far as to say I think you'll find it hard to find a boat under £15k with a new engine and sound hull and you seem to have on there. 

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, junior said:

In fact I'd go as far as to say I think you'll find it hard to find a boat under £15k with a new engine and sound hull and you seem to have on there. 

 

Totally agree. 

 

Alan's post would be perfectly reasonable for a boat costing £50k or £100k, but for this cheap-as-chips bargain boat costing £13k - pocket money in the world of narrowboats - it is frankly ridiculous to suggest not buying it due to needing third party only insurance. 

 

IMHO. 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Totally agree. 

 

Alan's post would be perfectly reasonable for a boat costing £50k or £100k, but for this cheap-as-chips bargain boat costing £13k - pocket money in the world of narrowboats - it is frankly ridiculous to suggest not buying it due to needing third party only insurance. 

 

IMHO. 

 

Indeed. I've never seen the need for more than 3rd party insurance in the thirty years I've had what was quite an old boat when I bought it (without a survey I may add). It's now been overplated and is therefore equipped with more or less an entirely new hull.

I've always regarded insurance as a swindle anyway. At 26ft, t presume you won't be living on it, nor will it contain things of vast expense while you're off it, and it'll probably be on a secure mooring  so what's the point of comprehensive anyway? 

[alan_fincher]

In general I agree with those saying not to be too alarmed.

THe price sounds good for a Piper boat, (even a smal one), and if the engine is really new that is a decided bonus, (although you don't say what engine it has, I think.}.

 

If I have a concen it would be the use of just 3mm steel for some of the overplating.  I can't recall coming across that before  - normally I would say that 4mm is the usual minimum.  It seems a odd choice as the cost difference between 3mm and 4mm I would expect to be fairly minimal.

To some extent, I would say whether you should buy or not depends on how much residul funds ypu will have after purchase.  Inevitably with a boat of this age you'll end up spending quite a lot on something - even if the hull proves to have no urgent need of any work.

Good luck with it anyway - I've always has a soft spot for Pipers.

[IanD]

29 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

In general I agree with those saying not to be too alarmed.

THe price sounds good for a Piper boat, (even a smal one), and if the engine is really new that is a decided bonus, (although you don't say what engine it has, I think.}.

 

If I have a concen it would be the use of just 3mm steel for some of the overplating.  I can't recall coming across that before  - normally I would say that 4mm is the usual minimum.  It seems a odd choice as the cost difference between 3mm and 4mm I would expect to be fairly minimal.

To some extent, I would say whether you should buy or not depends on how much residul funds ypu will have after purchase.  Inevitably with a boat of this age you'll end up spending quite a lot on something - even if the hull proves to have no urgent need of any work.

Good luck with it anyway - I've always has a soft spot for Pipers.

 

Maybe 3mm was used because it's lighter than 4mm and a short 26' boat doesn't have much buoyancy to spare when you take the bow/stern taper/swim into account?

Edited November 21, 2025 by IanD

[Slim]

I would have thought that a more realistic question to ask OP is how long he/she expects the boat to last before , (as some people suggest) it rusts to a point where it is no longer fit for purpose. At that point all value is lost. 

 

Only asked😎

Edited November 21, 2025 by Slim

[SUIGENERIS]

This is a shot in the dark! It sounds very much like it's that very pretty boat Willow, 64159, Dot Piper descibed it to us as one of David's "Blacksmith Hulls".  we had it from 2008 for about  6 years and really enjoyed it, No idea whats happened to it since our ownership , but has obviously had a fair bit of money spent on it with apparently a new engine. If you get half the pleasure we had then the purchase money will be well spent. Hope it works out well for you

[Bee]

Bottom V plate 4mm? Did Piper build any boats with a V bottom?  

[Canal321]

Apollo duck advert

 

Is it this one?

[SUIGENERIS]

Definitely, as confirmed to me by Dot Piper herself. The hulls were built for David, they were built to accept a wooden superstructure which bolted to a 3/4 inch upstand on the inside of the gunwhale . |It was a long time ago! much has been changed in design since.

That's the one we had!  Pretty, but it was only 24 ft as I remember.

[Canal321]

For the money I'd be looking at that tug MTB posted the other day. 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/narrow-boats-tugs-for-sale/808115

[SUIGENERIS]

That Tug does allow for the accomodation to be extended forwards if and when funding permits. We found ourselves wanting more space as we had more time to spend boating. Hence our selling and buying bigger.

[brianthesnail96]

I'd be a bit cynical about how new that engine really is- is it normal for engine suppliers to paint literally everything orange, including the flexible hoses, alternator (and tensioner), filter, greaser etc etc? 

 

I suspect it might be 20 hours since a rattle can rebuild myself... 

 

Still looks like an unusually good boat for the money, but I agree, I'd be after that lovely little tug Canal321 posted.

[MtB]

33 minutes ago, brianthesnail96 said:

I'd be a bit cynical about how new that engine really is- is it normal for engine suppliers to paint literally everything orange, including the flexible hoses, alternator (and tensioner), filter, greaser etc etc? 

 

 

That's exactly what I thought too when I saw the photo. Resprayed reconditioned jobby.

 

It might be very nicely reconditioned or it might have had nothing more than a pressure wash and a quick spray, but there is no way to tell by looking at it. Maybe ask to see the invoice showing the price of this 'new' engine. I bet the invoice says its a rebuild in which case one needs to consider who did it. 

 

Plus, Beta canal engines are green.

 

But if the engine is sound, the boat still looks like a good deal. Just not as good as we first thought.

 

 

 

 

[blackrose]

9 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Surely the overplated sides are a lot more than 4mm, as that's just the thickness of the overplating. There must be some original steel left underneath - same with the rest if it.

 

Alan is however correct in his response to this point. Even the most positive & optimistic surveyor would never include the thickness of the original steel which has been overplated. It was too thin in the first place which is why it was overplated, so only the new plating is measured and quoted. The remaining original steel behind shouldn't count in anyone's estimation.

Edited November 21, 2025 by blackrose

[PaulJ]

19 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Plus, Beta canal engines are green.

True, apart from the red ones of course..

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

True, apart from the red ones of course..

 

The raw water cooled ones intended for lumpy water boats are red. Those, you mean?

 

[agg221]

The OP does not say what they are planning to do with the boat.

 

As a leisure boat, it would be great. The thickness wouldn't worry me at all - think about the rate of corrosion and that represents and you can see how long it may last. As a liveaboard with all my worldly possessions on it I would be inclined to buy the tug instead - more space and the ability to insure fully comprehensive which is less about the boat and more about the contents.

 

Since the OP has time to sort it out, I would get it blasted and epoxied because that will minimise any further corrosion. Blasting will probably show up a few deeper pits, which I would get welded up before painting, and I would also get the underside of the guard iron fully welded too. The original thinking was that the water would drain out but in practice it has been found that corrosion between the guard iron and the hull causes a wedging action and eventually something gives - either buckling the hull or cracking the welds.

 

One big advantage of this boat is that it is very short. It only takes about a third of the time and materials (and hence a third of the cost) to do things to the hull. This means you can stick a full coat of epoxy on in one go and then have a cup of tea!

Alec