5G WiFi

[NB Thistle]

I've got a 4G Huawei router with external aerial supplying my wifi at the moment. It's not great though - I have to open the side hatch to stream movies for reasons I don't quite understand for example. Anyway, the sim card in the router can get 5G as well so I thought I might upgrade. What's a good mid-priced router/aerial setup at the moment?

[matty40s]

It probably means your aeriel isn't working.

[NB Thistle]

1 minute ago, matty40s said:

It probably means your aeriel isn't working.

That's the conclusion I reached, but I've got a bit of spare cash so thought if I need to get a new aerial I might as well upgrade the whole system.

[ditchcrawler]

30 minutes ago, NB Thistle said:

That's the conclusion I reached, but I've got a bit of spare cash so thought if I need to get a new aerial I might as well upgrade the whole system.

Do you actually have to switch to the external aerial in the setup 

[NB Thistle]

Usually it just works except for streaming, but slower than I would like. I'm not trying to troubleshoot it though, I was hoping somebody would know what new stuff makes a good setup as there's a lot of choices out there.

Edited November 11 by NB Thistle
Spelling

[blackrose]

Out of interest is there any point upgrading to 5G if ones mooring isn't in an area with a 5G signal? I have no idea when rural parts of the UK will have 5G coverage but I imagine it could be years?

[NB Thistle]

7 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Out of interest is there any point upgrading to 5G if ones mooring isn't in an area with a 5G signal? I have no idea when rural parts of the UK will have 5G coverage but I imagine it could be years?

My understanding is if a 5G sim can't get 5G signal it will use 4G, so one is no worse off by upgrading but could be better off. I believe voice calls still get carried over 3G.

[matty40s]

What router do you have at present, and what aeriel, and how many cables link them?

[GUMPY]

12 minutes ago, NB Thistle said:

I believe voice calls still get carried over 3G.

3g has mostly been switched off, 2g carries calls if no 4/5g

[NB Thistle]

Had a search around and found this thread - I guess these are the current best options?

 

[JoeC]

Do a search on something like wifi / wi fi or router as there are already lots of posts out there with the kind of info you are after.

Thoughts about aerials ... do you want one to put on a pole, magnetic or bolt into the boat itself?

Edited November 12 by JoeC

[Quattrodave]

13 hours ago, NB Thistle said:

I've got a 4G Huawei router with external aerial supplying my wifi at the moment. It's not great though - I have to open the side hatch to stream movies for reasons I don't quite understand for example. Anyway, the sim card in the router can get 5G as well so I thought I might upgrade. What's a good mid-priced router/aerial setup at the moment?

 

There are some amazing 5G routers available and some stonking antennas available now... What's your budget??

[IanD]

A recommended 4x4 MIMO 5G router, about £300:

 

https://www.gl-inet.com/products/gl-x3000/

 

A suitable antenna can be found here:

 

https://3grouterstore.co.uk/product-category/5g-antennas/4x4-mimo-5g-antennas/

 

(general comment : bigger antenna from a reputable supplier (e.g. Poynting, Panorama) = better performance but also higher cost)

[Hudds Lad]

Whatever you buy, check carefully before heading to your boat.

 

Over the summer i upgraded our gear, part of which was a a Poynting 4x4 antenna. Luckily two days before heading to the marina i unboxed everything to have a general poke at it, and discovered the aerial was a 2x2 and NOT the 4x4 i ordered. Box was sealed and all labelling and numbers said it would contain a 4x4, but inside was a properly labelled 2x2. Luckily i was able to order a replacement (not from Amazon this time) which arrived the next day and was correct, and got a full refund from Amazon.

[NB Thistle]

2 hours ago, Quattrodave said:

 

There are some amazing 5G routers available and some stonking antennas available now... What's your budget??

Up to about £500. I want to get set up properly for the next few years of I'm going to do it.

2 hours ago, IanD said:

A recommended 4x4 MIMO 5G router, about £300:

 

https://www.gl-inet.com/products/gl-x3000/

 

A suitable antenna can be found here:

 

https://3grouterstore.co.uk/product-category/5g-antennas/4x4-mimo-5g-antennas/

 

(general comment : bigger antenna from a reputable supplier (e.g. Poynting, Panorama) = better performance but also higher cost)

I spotted this on the other thread (should have done a search before posting really 🤦),  I think I'll be getting one of these.

[IanD]

12 minutes ago, NB Thistle said:

Up to about £500. I want to get set up properly for the next few years of I'm going to do it.

I spotted this on the other thread (should have done a search before posting really 🤦),  I think I'll be getting one of these.

If you want an antenna to fit onto the roof instead of a pole, the Panorama GPSD4-6-60 (around £200) works very well though it's not easy to find in the UK -- in spite of Panorama being a UK company!

 

It has the advantage of being designed to work right next to a big flat metal thing (a narrowboat roof) which the panel antennas don't really like (unless you put them up on a pole), and actually gets an extra couple of dB of gain from this.

 

Here's one in situ... 😉 

 

 

Edited November 12 by IanD

[robtheplod]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

If you want an antenna to fit onto the roof instead of a pole, the Panorama GPSD4-6-60 (around £200) works very well though it's not easy to find in the UK -- in spite of Panorama being a UK company!

 

It has the advantage of being designed to work right next to a big flat metal thing (a narrowboat roof) which the panel antennas don't really like (unless you put them up on a pole), and actually gets an extra couple of dB of gain from this.

 

Here's one in situ... 😉 

 

 

got one of these thanks to Ians advice, they are excellent, and if funds permit the Teltonika RUTX50 is an excellent router to go with it.

[NB Thistle]

20 minutes ago, IanD said:

If you want an antenna to fit onto the roof instead of a pole, the Panorama GPSD4-6-60 (around £200) works very well though it's not easy to find in the UK -- in spite of Panorama being a UK company!

 

It has the advantage of being designed to work right next to a big flat metal thing (a narrowboat roof) which the panel antennas don't really like (unless you put them up on a pole), and actually gets an extra couple of dB of gain from this.

 

Here's one in situ... 😉 

 

 

And doesn't need taking down to do through tunnels either!

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

got one of these thanks to Ians advice, they are excellent, and if funds permit the Teltonika RUTX50 is an excellent router to go with it.

As is the AX-3000, which has some advantages... 😉 

 

They're both excellent products, there's a comparison here:

 

 

2 minutes ago, NB Thistle said:

And doesn't need taking down to do through tunnels either!

 

There's an extra hidden advantage if you can do what I did and put the antenna immediately above the router (mine's in an overhead cupboard in the galley) -- you can then use very short low-loss cables between them, which further improves signal levels compared to the common solution of a panel antenna in the bows and a router somewhere inside the boat connected by 5m cables.

[NB Thistle]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

As is the AX-3000, which has some advantages... 😉 

 

They're both excellent products, there's a comparison here:

 

 

 

There's an extra hidden advantage if you can do what I did and put the antenna immediately above the router (mine's in an overhead cupboard in the galley) -- you can then use very short low-loss cables between them, which further improves signal levels compared to the common solution of a panel antenna in the bows and a router somewhere inside the boat connected by 5m cables.

I've got holes where the current antenna cables go through the roof and the front bulkhead so I'll probably use those, but I am doing my research on the best cables to use rather than buying blind like I did last time.

[robtheplod]

Skip past me droning on to see how i mounted this.... you might find it useful?

 

 

[IanD]

13 minutes ago, NB Thistle said:

I've got holes where the current antenna cables go through the roof and the front bulkhead so I'll probably use those, but I am doing my research on the best cables to use rather than buying blind like I did last time.

Unless they're short (the best option!) you'd definitely be better using low-loss cables (e.g. LMR400), but note that these are thicker and less flexible and harder to get into SMA connectors. LMR240 is thinner but also higher loss, it all depends on how long your cables are...

Edited November 12 by IanD

[NB Thistle]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

Unless they're short (the best option!) you'd definitely be better using low-loss cables (e.g. LMR400), but note that these are thicker and less flexible and harder to get into SMA connectors. LMR240 is thinner but also higher loss, it all depends on how long your cables are...

About 25 feet and in the same cable run as (led) cabin lights and an extractor fan

[IanD]

49 minutes ago, NB Thistle said:

About 25 feet and in the same cable run as (led) cabin lights and an extractor fan

That's pretty long -- RF/LMR400 (10mm dia) will have about 1.7db loss (good) at 2.4GHz, RF/LMR240 (6mm dia) 3.2dB (OK), RG58A/U (5mm dia) 9.7dB (disaster!).

 

https://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/cable/coaxperf.html

 

The extra 1.5dB loss of LMR240 over LMR400 doesn't sound like much, but it's the difference between a good and excellent antenna, and using LMR400 will increase the coverage area of a cellular basestation by about 40% -- which could make a big difference in marginal signal areas, like out in the sticks... 😉 

 

Avoid standard RG58 at all costs, that will absolutely kill your data rates and coverage.

 

https://www.ead-ltd.com/news/low-loss-rf-coaxial-cables-comparing-your-options

 

A pre-assembled 10m SMA-m/SMA-f LMR400 cable is about £40, I wouldn't recommend trying to make one yourself because fitting the (non-standard) SMA connectors is tricky. Unfortunately that's £160 for 4 cables... 😞 

 

Do take care with the cables, 4 stiff RF cables like this could put a lot of strain on the router sockets and make it hard to position, so you might want to use short flexible jumper cables to make the connections, like these:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fasizi-Connecting-Coaxial-Antenna-Extender/dp/B09Z29XY2Z

 

Are you really sure you don't want to try and get the antenna right next to the router? 😉 

Edited November 12 by IanD

[GUMPY]

I would always aim to keep the cable between the antenna to the absolute minimum, ideally no more than 1 metre, at a push 3 metres. That way you might actually get some gain rather than just covering cable losses.

My Poynting antenna has the standard 5 meter cables on it and in reality there is very little difference between that and paddle antennas on the router. However the router is not in a metal box.

 

LDF 450 was  a good cable to use at GHz frequencies 😉