Cheshire Ring II canal proposal could 'revitalise' Winsford

[David Mack]

11 minutes ago, Wafi said:

Any idea how that thing actually works? The photos just show a concrete tube, which might aswell be annotated "magic happens inside here".

There used to be quite a lot about it online, but it mostly disappeared after Terry Fogarty died.

The diagonal lock comprised an inclined tunnel with a big rotary lock gate at the bottom end which completely sealed the tunnel, and a conventional lock gate at the top. The tunnel could be filled with water to float boats up from the lower level to the upper level. Water use would be minimised by having a series of sideponds. Within the tunnel there was a floating pontoon to which boats would be tied during passage.

Hugely expensive to construct, significant land needed to accommodate the side ponds, water saving questionable given the diagonal circular tunnel size would be much bigger than an equivalent vertical lock chamber, but passage would undoubtedly be quicker than a flight of locks.

[IanD]

Just now, David Mack said:

There used to be quite a lot about it online, but it mostly disappeared after Terry Fogarty died.

The diagonal lock comprised an inclined tunnel with a big rotary lock gate at the bottom end which completely sealed the tunnel, and a conventional lock gate at the top. The tunnel could be filled with water to float boats up from the lower level to the upper level. Water use would be minimised by having a series of sideponds. Within the tunnel there was a floating pontoon to which boats would be tied during passage.

Hugely expensive to construct, significant land needed to accommodate the side ponds, water saving questionable given the diagonal circular tunnel size would be much bigger than an equivalent vertical lock chamber, but passage would undoubtedly be quicker than a flight of locks.

 

Only for a single isolated boat -- as soon as you have multiple boats (with no passing inside) it becomes like a narrow staircase, one boat all the way down then another one all the way up and so on. Average throughput would be lower than a conventional lock flight, plus no flexibility about boats in the same/different directions.

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, 1st ade said:

Jen beat me to it - the appeal of the Falkirk wheel is that it is the Falkirk Wheel. The one and only…

But why is it being mentioned.

An inclined plane which is what was mentioned as being built is totally different to a boat lift

[Wafi]

Got it. So it's functionally identical to a single very deep lock, but replacing the top ~75% of the bottom gate with a wall.

 

Without a system of sideponds or back pumping, water supply from the locks above would be an issue. Each descending boat would bring a small lock's worth of water with it, but need several times as much to descend the diagonal; same issue as Aynho Weir Lock on the Oxford needing to be wider to provide sufficient water for Somerton.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Wafi said:

Got it. So it's functionally identical to a single very deep lock, but replacing the top ~75% of the bottom gate with a wall.

 

Without a system of sideponds or back pumping, water supply from the locks above would be an issue. Each descending boat would bring a small lock's worth of water with it, but need several times as much to descend the diagonal; same issue as Aynho Weir Lock on the Oxford needing to be wider to provide sufficient water for Somerton.

Correct.

 

Read my post above -- it looks like there are two "sideponds", which still doesn't fix the fundamental problems with the idea... 😉 

Edited November 11, 2025 by IanD

[Wafi]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

Read my post above -- it looks like there are two "sideponds", which still doesn't fix the fundamental problems with the idea... 😉 

Reading the Wordpress site, that's mentioned as a possibility but the preferred option is generate electricity, presumably by draining the lock through turbines, and then using that energy to pump (some of) the water back up.

 

At scale, pumped-storage systems can be 70-80% efficient, but I doubt this could get anywhere close to that; it also violates the KISS principle in a very large way.

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Wafi said:

Reading the Wordpress site, that's mentioned as a possibility but the preferred option is generate electricity, presumably by draining the lock through turbines, and then using that energy to pump (some of) the water back up.

 

At scale, pumped-storage systems can be 70-80% efficient, but I doubt this could get anywhere close to that; it also violates the KISS principle in a very large way.

I still don't get what advantages this is supposed to offer over a flight of locks -- apart from being a complicated way of solving a simple problem... 😉 

Edited November 11, 2025 by IanD

[Peanut]

I don't quite like the idea of going up and down inside a stinky, slimy, dripping tube, with nowhere safe to get off if it goes wrong.

I much prefer the idea of Wafi, punt rollers, motor on to top or bottom to start, cable attached, and away you go. You could use a carriage, one up one down, rather like a cable car or ski lift. Not too difficult to build, just watch out for lose stuff inside or on the roof. 😉 

[Wafi]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

I still don't get what advantages this is supposed to offer over a flight of locks -- apart from being a complicated way of solving a simple problem... 😉 

Agreed, except that the Camp Hill flight (which it was proposed to replace) already exists, so rather than being a complicated solution to a simple problem it's a complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist at all.

 

There's a list of 9 advantages listed on the Wordpress site. I'm not sure I agree with any of them, but this is the one that puzzles me most:

"The Diagonal Lock eliminates 100% of the pollution created by navigating traditional locks."

What pollution?

[ditchcrawler]

The amount of re engineering the lift they are doing we could end up with a Falkirk wheel. 

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, Wafi said:

 

"The Diagonal Lock eliminates 100% of the pollution created by navigating traditional locks."

What pollution?

Have you never seen the shit that appears from the depths and behind the gates of the Camp Hill flight....I once even had a decorated Christmas tree jammed up the weed hatch!!

[Wafi]

1 hour ago, matty40s said:

Have you never seen the shit that appears from the depths and behind the gates of the Camp Hill flight....I once even had a decorated Christmas tree jammed up the weed hatch!!

Ah, but the Christmas tree was in the water when you arrived, and presumably disposed of more appropriately once you'd finished, so navigating a traditional flight actually causes negative pollution!

[matty40s]

10 minutes ago, Wafi said:

Ah, but the Christmas tree was in the water when you arrived, and presumably disposed of more appropriately once you'd finished, so navigating a traditional flight actually causes negative pollution!

I did stick it on the front of Tawny Owl, took it with me and returned it to the top of Hatton!!