Cheshire Ring II canal proposal could 'revitalise' Winsford

[IanD]

Proposal for an inclined plane between the Middlewich Branch and Winsford Bottom Flash... 😉 

 

https://www.northwichguardian.co.uk/news/25604728.cheshire-ring-ii-canal-project-revitalise-winsford/

[robtheplod]

That sounds like an interesting project.... I love the engineering aspect 

[tree monkey]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

Proposal for an inclined plane between the Middlewich Branch and Winsford Bottom Flash... 😉 

 

https://www.northwichguardian.co.uk/news/25604728.cheshire-ring-ii-canal-project-revitalise-winsford/

 

I worked as a contractor for CCC when this was being developed, the main chap in charge was a Dutch bloke if I remember, those were the days when councils actually thought they had money or at least access to money to attempt these sort of projects 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, tree monkey said:

 

I worked as a contractor for CCC when this was being developed, the main chap in charge was a Dutch bloke if I remember, those were the days when councils actually thought they had money or at least access to money to attempt these sort of projects 

 

It all seems a bit odd as the original proposal was in 2009 according to the article, with no clue in the article about why the RWNS suddenly thinks it might be a go-er. 

[tree monkey]

Just now, MtB said:

 

It all seems a bit odd as the original proposal was in 2009 according to the article, with no clue in the article about why the RWNS suddenly thinks it might be a go-er. 

 

Yup, tbh I wondered if this was the same proposal, upon reading it looks like it.

 

It would be very very cool if it happens, but I bet it won't 

[Victor Vectis]

Lovely idea.......

But I ain't holding my breath.

[DHutch]

Its an interesting project, but likewise I cant see it happening anytime soon and likely not ever. 

 

For the sort of money would cost, you could do an awful of almost anything else, including improving the maintenance of the existing boat lift at Anderton,  or restoration the Runcorn locks. 

[BEngo]

Another project which wishes to install a technological, high capital cost,  high maintenance solution instead of a more pragmatic, but not sexy, low technology solution.

[nicknorman]

2 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Another project which wishes to install a technological, high capital cost,  high maintenance solution instead of a more pragmatic, but not sexy, low technology solution.

Although it can work. The Falkirk Wheel has been and remains pretty successful despite the very limited amount of boating happening on the Scottish lowland canals. I think it would be more about a tourist attraction than a facility for boat owners to reach the Weaver. But as said, there is probably no money for it.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

22 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Although it can work. The Falkirk Wheel has been and remains pretty successful despite the very limited amount of boating happening on the Scottish lowland canals. I think it would be more about a tourist attraction than a facility for boat owners to reach the Weaver. But as said, there is probably no money for it.

There is only a limited number of times another Falkirk Wheel type project can be done before the general public react with yawns. Some complex engineered solution, come tourist attraction has become the norm for canal projects, but few have gone any further. Even the full rebuilding of the Foxton Plane has been abandoned and that at least had historical veracity and much of the civil engineering still in situ.

[nicknorman]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

There is only a limited number of times another Falkirk Wheel type project can be done before the general public react with yawns. Some complex engineered solution, come tourist attraction has become the norm for canal projects, but few have gone any further. Even the full rebuilding of the Foxton Plane has been abandoned and that at least had historical veracity and much of the civil engineering still in situ.

Agreed but there is a lot of geographical separation between Falkirk Wheel and Cheshire. I think the problem with Foxton is that it is not a new link, it is just a bypass for the locks, and it is rather remote and hidden round the back of the more interesting locks. After all, the plane was abandoned in the first place because the locks were better!

[IanD]

31 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Another project which wishes to install a technological, high capital cost,  high maintenance solution instead of a more pragmatic, but not sexy, low technology solution.

Out of curiosity, what "low technology solution" are you thinking of -- a flight of locks, presumably?

 

What makes you think building a flight of brand new locks would be cheaper than the proposed inclined plane?

 

The money would presumably have to come from sources other than CART, and it would be much easier to raise such money for an inclined plane (only one in the UK, reviving a part of our industrial heritage etc.) than just some more locks.

 

BTW I'm not saying I think this will happen (with an inclined plane *or* locks...), just that if you're going to make objections make sure they're backed up by the facts... 😉 

Edited November 11 by IanD

[Jen-in-Wellies]

A narrowboat flume from the Middlewich branch to Bottom Flash would be much more of a tourist attraction!

Cheaper to build too. 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

A narrowboat flume from the Middlewich branch to Top Flash would be much more of a tourist attraction!

Cheaper to build too. 

Getting back up might be difficult though... 😉 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

Getting back up might be difficult though... 😉 

Use the money saved to fix Anderton.

[David Mack]

12 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

After all, the plane was abandoned in the first place because the locks were better!

I think it was abandoned as it was too expensive to run - keeping the boilers in steam 24/7 for a limited amount of boat traffic. That wouldn't have been such an issue if it had been built a few years later when diesel engines were available.

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Use the money saved to fix Anderton.

What money? There's no way CART would be willing/able to fund this, the money would have to come from other sources -- which are unlikely to divert this to fixing Anderton.

 

I don't think it's going to happen (where *is* the money going to come from?) but stranger things have happened -- however I can't see how "CART saving money" is a valid objection to it... 😉 

[Wafi]

41 minutes ago, IanD said:

Getting back up might be difficult though... 😉 

How about dispensing with the complexity of moving caissons and building a giant set of punt rollers with an electric winch at the top? Simple and cheap to build, straightforward to maintain, and uses no water. 

[haggis]

I know it is highly unlikely but if whatever link they build could pass near the Badgers Inn, that would be good. I love that pub but find the climb back to the boat a bit beyond me now 🙂 

[1st ade]

2 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

There is only a limited number of times another Falkirk Wheel type project can be done before the general public react with yawns. Some complex engineered solution, come tourist attraction has become the norm for canal projects, but few have gone any further. Even the full rebuilding of the Foxton Plane has been abandoned and that at least had historical veracity and much of the civil engineering still in situ.

Jen beat me to it - the appeal of the Falkirk wheel is that it is the Falkirk Wheel. The one and only…

[IanM]

When this sort of scheme gets proposed it always reminds me of this genius idea from 2011.

 

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/revolutionary-lock-could-transform-birminghams-9016867

 

https://antidotecounteragent.wordpress.com/2011/11/06/the-diagonal-lock-moving-towards-a-more-productive-environmentally-friendly-canal-system/

Edited November 11 by IanM

[Wafi]

29 minutes ago, IanM said:

When this sort of scheme gets proposed it always reminds me of this genius idea from 2011.

Any idea how that thing actually works? The photos just show a concrete tube, which might aswell be annotated "magic happens inside here".

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Wafi said:

Any idea how that thing actually works? The photos just show a concrete tube, which might aswell be annotated "magic happens inside here".

 

 

Closest to an explanation I could discover is this:

 

"The Diagonal Lock is a new technology devised as an alternative to traditional canal locks, enabling boats to ascend/descend an incline whilst floating securely inside a watertight, concrete chamber."

 

Which sounds about as practical and cheap as Concorde was. 

[IanM]

5 minutes ago, Wafi said:

Any idea how that thing actually works? The photos just show a concrete tube, which might as well be annotated "magic happens inside here".

 

Think it was a kind of water wedge idea but underground.  Not entirely sure to be honest.

[IanD]

12 minutes ago, IanM said:

 

Think it was a kind of water wedge idea but underground.  Not entirely sure to be honest.

It just looks like an inclined tube, big enough and with low enough slope to fit a floating boat inside "diagonally". Fill it up, open top gate, boat in, close top gate, empty tube, open bottom gate, boat out. A bit like Anderton but letting varying water level do the work instead of cables/hydraulic rams.

 

No reason it shouldn't work, but in water use terms it's equivalent to one extremely deep lock (about 50 feet drop?) which will use a phenomenal amount of water per boat transit. Presumably that's what the two just-visible tubes on the far side are for, they'll be equivalent to two intermediate-level sideponds, which will reduce water use by 3x -- so back to the same as a flight of 3 conventional locks. Except that round tube needs more clearance around the boat, so the bigger cross-sectional area will push the water use back up...

 

Also one boat has to go all the way down before another can come up, no passing like in a conventional lock flight, which means a lot fewer boats can use it. It also needs a watertight-when-fully-submerged bottom gate, it's not very tall but does have 3x the normal water pressure -- but at least there are only two gates, not six like a conventional 3-lock flight (or 4 in a staircase).

 

Looks to me like a solution looking for a problem, with several major disadvantages over a normal flight of locks, and few advantages I can see apart from only needing two gates... 😞 

Edited November 11 by IanD