Newbie to Canal boats

[DavidT88]

I am thinking of buying a canal boat around 55/60 ft and keeping it in marina for the winter months around Gloucestershire and then travelling around during summer and leaving on tow paths for a week while back at work : is this practical do other peoples do this , does the insurance cover this ?

[Rob-M]

Gloucestershire is not a great area for canals as you only have the Gloucester and Sharpness canal which is not sufficient to satisfy the movement rules if you give up your home mooring during the summer months.  You would need to go up the Severn and join one of the other canals.  Lots of boat owners do leave their boats, it depends on your view on risk and how happy you are leaving the boat somewhere when you have no idea if it will still be there undamaged when you return.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just be aware that (as stated above) the G&S canal is not long enough to meet your movemen requirements.

 

A boating couple lost their licence and complained to the ombudsman who agree with C&RT.

 

Here is a summary :

 

 

Case No 966 – complaint about the issue of a restricted six month licence for a boat without a home mooring

Mr and Mrs D are liveaboard boaters, based in Gloucester on the Gloucester and Sharpness Canal (G&S). As they do not have a home mooring they are subject to the Trust’s continuous cruising requirements. The Trust was not satisfied with the boat’s cruising pattern and decided only to allow them, on renewal of the licence, to have a restricted six month licence. In making their complaint, Mr and Mrs D said that the Trust restriction did not take into account the fact that the G&S is only 16 miles long, and that to cruise further meant taking their boat onto the River Severn, which they regarded as potentially hazardous. They also said that the Trust had not provided a full explanation for the restriction, that there was no clear guidance about what a “neighbourhood” or “locality” was, that the tone of the Trust’s correspondence was threatening, and that they were being discriminated against due to their age (i.e. that they are still working and that it is difficult to get the time to cruise further afield).

The Trust’s evidence showed that the majority of the cruising had been within a 15 km range, although there were two periods when the boat was sighted outside this range, which were at the end of April 2016 and in the middle of June 2016. The Trust said that the 15km cruising range did not meet the requirement at the time which was that the cruising range should be not less than 15-20km over the period of the licence. While it accepted that there two periods when this range was exceeded, it did not meet the requirement that the stated range should be met or exceeded “over the period of the licence”.

As to whether allowances should be made for boaters on the G&S because of the geographic limitations, the Trust said that while it did accept that there were some difficulties in cruising away from the canal, it did not accept that the difficulties were of such a nature that it was prepared to reduce the maximum cruising range. That is a policy matter for the Trust which I cannot influence.

The Trust’s key point was that no matter how frequently a boat moved, it could not remain on the G&S for the licence period and be compliant. It said that compliance could be achieved only if the boat left the G&S. It added that in this case the time spent away from the G&S was not sufficient to achieve compliance.

I concluded that the Trust did recognise the difficulties of navigating beyond the extremes of the canal, in particular at the southern end, where exit into the Severn estuary would require a pilot. However, while it also accepted that a northbound exit might be difficult in certain conditions, it did not accept that navigation up the River Severn was not possible.

I was satisfied that the Trust had, either before or during the complaint process, provided an explanation of why the complainants had been issued with a restricted licence, and also what a neighbourhood or locality was.

On the issue of whether the Trust had discriminated against the complainants because of their age, and the fact that they work, I did not conclude that it had. Under the Equality Act 2010 age is a protected characteristic. However, I could not see that the Trust could be regarded as having discriminated against the complainants on the basis of their age. The complainants said that the discrimination was based on the fact that they still worked, but being employed is not a protected characteristic. I said that given that the Equality Act prohibited discrimination on the basis of age (apart from any exceptions which must be justified) there could be no link between age and being employed, adding that a person above the state pension age, for example, but still in employment, could equally make the same argument.

Having considered all aspects of the complaint, I did not uphold it. The complainants said that they had a widebeam boat and that it was difficult to find permanent moorings, but I could not regard that as a reason for the Trust to disapply its continuous cruising guidance.

 

 

[DavidT88]

Thanks Rob yes plan to join Severn up to Worcester canal I did the Avon ring in a hire boat last year , so know that area well .

Yes I suppose it’s a gamble leaving on the tow path I think as long as insurance covers any damage , I was trying to plan a route from marina to marina but there does not seem to be enough of them , have you heard of anywhere a map of canals with good and bad areas to leave the boat on the towpath 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Most people seem to go on vibes for selecting a good towparh place to leave a boat for a week. My personal favourite is opposite an off side linear mooring. There are other boaters around, so there are eyes on yours too. Obviously, you don't want to be restricting passsge for moving bosts. Bad places are not in city, or town centres, but away from the centres, around the periphery. I go on grafitti density. More is bad.

There are boat clubs too, as well as marinas, for more obviously safe mooring. If you join an AWCC member club, there are reciprocal visiting opportunities at other club moorings for reasonable fees. 

[Mac of Cygnet]

10 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Most people seem to go on vibes for selecting a good towparh place to leave a boat for a week. My personal favourite is opposite an off side linear mooring. There are other boaters around, so there are eyes on yours too. Obviously, you don't want to be restricting passsge for moving bosts. Bad places are not in city, or town centres, but away from the centres, around the periphery. I go on grafitti density. More is bad.

There are boat clubs too, as well as marinas, for more obviously safe mooring. If you join an AWCC member club, there are reciprocal visiting opportunities at other club moorings for reasonable fees. 

I did exactly this for several years with Cygnet - home mooring at Sowerby Bridge for winter, and travelled over most of the system in summer, leaving the boat at a mixture of clubs, marinas and towpaths for about a week at a time. I crossed my fingers on occasion, but the worst that happened was a brush stolen from the roof (at Blisworth, but I don't think that was typical of Blisworth!)   Other moored boats around, occupied or not, is a good sign.  External padlocks are a bad idea - indicating an unoccupied boat.  My boat was set adrift 3 times, but not when I was away - twice I was in the pub, and once on board!

[Jen-in-Wellies]

2 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

My boat was set adrift 3 times, but not when I was away - twice I was in the pub, and once on board!

Other boaters are good at tying up unoccupied boats that are adrift. 

Same experience. I've been set adrift when on board. Once woke up with the traffic noise from a nearby road coming from the opposite side of the boat from when I went to sleep! The canal was wide enough for the boat to do a 180 overnight.

[David Mack]

Fulbourne usually spends the time between Easter and October(ish) away from the home mooring, and is almost always left on towpath moorings between trips. As an unconverted boat with undercloth camping style accommodation it is not exactly secure. Yet we have rarely had problems. You just have to be sensible in where you leave the boat. We don't leave anything out on the roof etc., back cabin and engine room are locked, gas, electric and water are turned off.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just be aware that (as stated above) the G&S canal is not long enough to meet your movemen requirements.

 

A boating couple lost their licence and complained to the ombudsman who agree with C&RT.

 

Here is a summary :

 

 

Case No 966 – complaint about the issue of a restricted six month licence for a boat without a home mooring

Mr and Mrs D are liveaboard boaters, based in Gloucester on the Gloucester and Sharpness Canal (G&S). As they do not have a home mooring they are subject to the Trust’s continuous cruising requirements. The Trust was not satisfied with the boat’s cruising pattern and decided only to allow them, on renewal of the licence, to have a restricted six month licence. In making their complaint, Mr and Mrs D said that the Trust restriction did not take into account the fact that the G&S is only 16 miles long, and that to cruise further meant taking their boat onto the River Severn, which they regarded as potentially hazardous. They also said that the Trust had not provided a full explanation for the restriction, that there was no clear guidance about what a “neighbourhood” or “locality” was, that the tone of the Trust’s correspondence was threatening, and that they were being discriminated against due to their age (i.e. that they are still working and that it is difficult to get the time to cruise further afield).

The Trust’s evidence showed that the majority of the cruising had been within a 15 km range, although there were two periods when the boat was sighted outside this range, which were at the end of April 2016 and in the middle of June 2016. The Trust said that the 15km cruising range did not meet the requirement at the time which was that the cruising range should be not less than 15-20km over the period of the licence. While it accepted that there two periods when this range was exceeded, it did not meet the requirement that the stated range should be met or exceeded “over the period of the licence”.

As to whether allowances should be made for boaters on the G&S because of the geographic limitations, the Trust said that while it did accept that there were some difficulties in cruising away from the canal, it did not accept that the difficulties were of such a nature that it was prepared to reduce the maximum cruising range. That is a policy matter for the Trust which I cannot influence.

The Trust’s key point was that no matter how frequently a boat moved, it could not remain on the G&S for the licence period and be compliant. It said that compliance could be achieved only if the boat left the G&S. It added that in this case the time spent away from the G&S was not sufficient to achieve compliance.

I concluded that the Trust did recognise the difficulties of navigating beyond the extremes of the canal, in particular at the southern end, where exit into the Severn estuary would require a pilot. However, while it also accepted that a northbound exit might be difficult in certain conditions, it did not accept that navigation up the River Severn was not possible.

I was satisfied that the Trust had, either before or during the complaint process, provided an explanation of why the complainants had been issued with a restricted licence, and also what a neighbourhood or locality was.

On the issue of whether the Trust had discriminated against the complainants because of their age, and the fact that they work, I did not conclude that it had. Under the Equality Act 2010 age is a protected characteristic. However, I could not see that the Trust could be regarded as having discriminated against the complainants on the basis of their age. The complainants said that the discrimination was based on the fact that they still worked, but being employed is not a protected characteristic. I said that given that the Equality Act prohibited discrimination on the basis of age (apart from any exceptions which must be justified) there could be no link between age and being employed, adding that a person above the state pension age, for example, but still in employment, could equally make the same argument.

Having considered all aspects of the complaint, I did not uphold it. The complainants said that they had a widebeam boat and that it was difficult to find permanent moorings, but I could not regard that as a reason for the Trust to disapply its continuous cruising guidance.

 

 

I posted that to someone on Facebook last week who tried to tell a newbe it was fine to CC on the G&S was fine

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I posted that to someone on Facebook last week who tried to tell a newbe it was fine to CC on the G&S was fine

 

There is always someone who knows better - but when questioned can never provide any evidence.

[DavidT88]

Thanks it would be Saul marina or twekwsbiru marina  for the winter thank you 

[LadyG]

If leaving my boat and dont want it to look unoccupied I have thought about an internal bolt for the sliding hatch and a bolt and padlock which is inside but halfway down the doors, so tricky with an angle grinder.

Generally I just use an ABUS padlock which would deter most folks. 

I chain the handles together on the bow doors with a goat chain so even if someone prises them open, they are not easy access.

You can't stop any determined thief.

If I leave the boat where there might be scrotes, feral children, I take my phone, cash, credit, and debit cards, with me, and tidy away binoculars etc.

I often have a signs of occupation, a mug of tea for example on roof. 

I often have three pins to attach the boat, so even if one comes away the chances are you wont be adrift. Best thing is to attach at least one rope to a post or ring which can't pull out. 

I have a few sets of AA battery operated fairy lights which have a built in time function, so come on for 6 hours every 24, these are cheery in them selves, but also can be seen from outside.

Edited November 4 by LadyG

[doratheexplorer]

I do similar to this, it's perfectly doable. I'm a permanent liveaboard though so a little different.  I keep a home mooring all year round, but it's cheap so not a problem.  It's classed as a leisure mooring so it would become a problem if I was there all the time.  I tend to cruise for most of the year and come back to my mooring in the coldest winter months.  I also return to my home mooring if I'm going to be away from my boat for an extended period.  I'm often moored near boats who have been left unattended during the week.  You do get a 6th sense for where's safe and where isn't.  Some clues: 

 

Moor near other boats, but not boats who have their debris strewn all over the towpath.

Avoid areas with graffiti or excessive litter. 

When you've moored in a new place, go for a wander and get a feel for the place.  If you see groups of bored feral youths loitering around, move on.

Make a note of the good mooring spots, so you can find them again.  I mark them in my Nicholson's Guides.

Make it look like there's someone on board your boat.  So don't put a rear tonneau on if you have a cruiser stern.  Leave an led light on inside your boat.

Buy one of these:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/XGHDPBM-Simulator-Anti-Burglar-Television-Protection/dp/B0DQ9F4VTJ/ref=asc_df_B0DQ9F4VTJ?mcid=ea1f945cae4739a796628a9ff956f273&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=719753954331&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16443042118239091043&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045471&hvtargid=pla-2449839974327&psc=1&hvocijid=16443042118239091043-B0DQ9F4VTJ-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1

 

When your curtains are drawn, it looks like there's a TV on in the boat.

 

Consider the boat you buy for security.  Portholes are better than full sized windows.  Metal doors are better than wooden doors. A proper yale type lock in the door is better than a padlock.

[Onewheeler]

6 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

 

Consider the boat you buy for security.  Portholes are better than full sized windows.  Metal doors are better than wooden doors. A proper yale type lock in the door is better than a padlock.

I use one of these locks on the front foors. Very sturdy and secure and no padlock to make it obvious there's no one in. Also enough play to cope with seasonal movements of the wood.

https://loktonic.co.uk/product/lince-lock-2930bi-high-security-heavy-duty-rim-gate-shed-garage-sliding-bolt/

[DavidT88]

Thank you for all your advice , just have to find the boat now , I

 

i know I want a cruiser stern around 55/60 ft around 50k have been looking at abc boat sales do like the layouts of there boats