Conversion to hybrid electric system using Nissan Leaf batteries.

[Samantha Helps]

Good afternoon We are looking at converting an old(ish Same age as me) 63 foot narrow boat to electric drive and power using a Nissan leaf battery pack with solar, wind and backup diesel generator for back up and winter running. looking at the Nissan leaf it has a 24kva battery so plenty of juice for a couple of days running without need to kick the generator in. control module seems to be my first stumbling block. obviously a  modern mppt will help with the charging side of things. along with a stron inverter for AC. But my questions would be has anyone done this yet? if so what troubles did you get into?

[cuthound]

What type of Lithium batteries does a Nissan Leaf use?

 

Unless they are Lithium Iron Phosphate (LifePo4), then they may be susceptible to self combustion and destroy your boat should the worst occur 

 

Furthermore the Boat Safety Scheme is currently assessing lithium battery types on boats and may prohibit any type other than LifePo4.

[IanD]

57 minutes ago, cuthound said:

What type of Lithium batteries does a Nissan Leaf use?

 

Unless they are Lithium Iron Phosphate (LifePo4), then they may be susceptible to self combustion and destroy your boat should the worst occur 

 

Furthermore the Boat Safety Scheme is currently assessing lithium battery types on boats and may prohibit any type other than LifePo4.

 

The Nissan Leaf uses NCM chemistry lithium-ion batteries, and DIY installing such a battery pack on a boat is a very bad idea and almost certainly uninsurable.

[MtB]

5 hours ago, Samantha Helps said:

Good afternoon We are looking at converting an old(ish Same age as me) 63 foot narrow boat to electric drive and power using a Nissan leaf battery pack with solar, wind and backup diesel generator for back up and winter running. looking at the Nissan leaf it has a 24kva battery so plenty of juice for a couple of days running without need to kick the generator in. control module seems to be my first stumbling block. obviously a  modern mppt will help with the charging side of things. along with a stron inverter for AC. But my questions would be has anyone done this yet? if so what troubles did you get into?

 

I had much the same idea a year or two ago and dropped it once I worked out the Nissan Leaf battery chemistry wasn't going to be LFP.

 

The problem with anything not LFP is fire. In case you are unaware, there are five or six different types of lithium chemistries and all are self-fuelling if they catch fire, so cannot be extinguished with conventional fire-fighting methods. Except for LFP. LFP is not self-fueling so LFP is the only safe(ish) (and insurable) one to go for.

 

Few older electric cars use LFP. Newer cars do so maybe batts from a new car write-off might be suitable, but do a LOT of research first. 

 

 

 

Edited November 2 by MtB
Add last para

[blackrose]

5 hours ago, Samantha Helps said:

Good afternoon We are looking at converting an old(ish Same age as me) 63 foot narrow boat to electric drive and power using a Nissan leaf battery pack with solar, wind and backup diesel generator for back up and winter running. 

 

Why? 

 

Assuming the boat has a working diesel engine then the whole escapade seems like an expensive folly. 

 

If the engine is knackered then it might make sense, but as others have said, if you must do this conversion then using a Nissan leaf battery is a bad idea. In the whole scheme of things it probably wouldn't save you much money compared to buying some proper, safe LiFePo4 batteries like Fogstars with built in battery management systems.

Edited November 2 by blackrose

[Col_T]

If you are really interested in going electric, have a look at No Putt Putt (https://noputtputt.co.uk). 
 

I have no connection with the company, just find their offering interesting.

[bizzard]

Pop Pop tube propulsion is safe and simple. Camphor chip is too.

Edited November 3 by bizzard

[Bee]

The more I think about different ways of making a boat move the more I am drawn to getting a horse.

[Bujler]

Didn't the couple who washed up on Sable Island in Canada do this with their sailboat?

 

Edited November 3 by Bujler

[Jen-in-Wellies]

5 minutes ago, Bee said:

The more I think about different ways of making a boat move the more I am drawn to getting a horse.

You are doing it wrong. You shouldn't be drawing the horse, the horse should be drawing the boat. How they hold the pencil with their hoofs, I don't know. It is a skill the Horse Boating Society are keen to preserve. 

[BEngo]

CRT, and BW before them, are/were very reluctant to support horse boating.  Notwithstanding the original purpose of the towing path!

[Peanut]

Nowadays, a horse is quite expensive to keep.

[MtB]

8 hours ago, Col_T said:

If you are really interested in going electric, have a look at No Putt Putt (https://noputtputt.co.uk). 
 

I have no connection with the company, just find their offering interesting.

 

What a shit website. Only the top half of the pages seem to display on a small laptop. Nor can I highlight any text, usually a neat way to force a scroll-down when scroll bars are disabled.  But in this case it seems as though each whole web page is rendered as a single image, which won't scroll or drag. 

 

Shame really as I'd be in the market for exactly what I think they might be offering. Maybe I'll try later on the desktop.

 

 

 

Edited November 3 by MtB

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

What a shit website. Only the top half of the pages seem to display on a small laptop. Nor can I highlight any text, usually a neat way to force a scroll-down when scroll bars are disabled.  But in this case it seems as though each whole web page is rendered as a single image, which won't scroll or drag. 

 

Shame really as I'd be in the market for exactly what I think they might be offering. Maybe I'll try later on the desktop.

 

 

I viewed it all, and as suspected, long on bull and short on anything of consequence. They seemed to be giving the impression that solar on a narrowboat would be adequate to recharge the batteries, but I did not notice anything about the battery type.

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I viewed it all, and as suspected, long on bull and short on anything of consequence. They seemed to be giving the impression that solar on a narrowboat would be adequate to recharge the batteries, but I did not notice anything about the battery type.

 

Thanks Tony. Just as I suspected but hoped would not be the case. So yet another firm setting out to dupe the technically naïve then. 

 

I often wonder if these bullshine company directors actually believe their own cobblers and are as naïve as the punters they hope to reel in. 

 

I suspect not though...

 

 

[mrsmelly]

17 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I viewed it all, and as suspected, long on bull and short on anything of consequence. They seemed to be giving the impression that solar on a narrowboat would be adequate to recharge the batteries, but I did not notice anything about the battery type.

Of course solar is adequate, you will not find any ALL electric boats with diesel gennies, that would never happen!!

[MtB]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Of course solar is adequate, you will not find any ALL electric boats with diesel gennies, that would never happen!!

 

An oxymoron, Shirley?

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

29 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

They seemed to be giving the impression that solar on a narrowboat would be adequate to recharge the batteries, but I did not notice anything about the battery type.

 

The batteries are LFP, which is good.

 

The solar will definitely recharge the batteries, eventually, as long as the end user doesn't waste any of the power by moving the boat or for domestic supply ...

[Rob-M]

Just need to sit in a marina through Autumn, winter and spring on shore power so you can cook.  Should be able to get some light cruising in during summer and maybe eat salad.

[IanD]

20 hours ago, Rob-M said:

Just need to sit in a marina through Autumn, winter and spring on shore power so you can cook.  Should be able to get some light cruising in during summer and maybe eat salad.

Nicely sarcastic but not entirely accurate -- domestic energy consumption (including cooking) is considerably lower than electric propulsion use, even if you don't cruise much -- but solar will still have a job keeping up if you move much.

 

As an example, on my last few trips total domestic energy use (including cooking, lighting, washing, TV/laptop...) averaged out at about 3.5kWh/day, propulsion used about 1kWh/mile (7.5kWh/day), total power input including idle losses and standby power (3.5kWh/day) was 16kWh/day -- and in comparison average solar yield was 5.2kWh/day in summer (2kWp panels, including moving, shading etc). As you can see, with that amount of cruising (about 8 miles per day) solar can't keep up even in summer -- but cooking isn't the main reason... 😉 

 

Of course on some days in full sun solar yield is much higher, I've seen up to 12kWh/day in the absolute best case -- but that average includes shading from trees and buildings, not always mooring in full sun and so on, so it's a realistic measured figure over many days not an unrealistic best-case one... 😉 

 

So as you say, a shoreline or generator is pretty much essential, unless you're very abstemious with power use, don't move much, and it's really sunny and you're not shaded. 

 

P.S. Most people wistfully planning electric boats don't use such realistic numbers, and paint a much more optimistic picture.

Edited November 4 by IanD

[Samantha Helps]

On 04/11/2025 at 16:28, IanD said:

Nicely sarcastic but not entirely accurate -- domestic energy consumption (including cooking) is considerably lower than electric propulsion use, even if you don't cruise much -- but solar will still have a job keeping up if you move much.

 

As an example, on my last few trips total domestic energy use (including cooking, lighting, washing, TV/laptop...) averaged out at about 3.5kWh/day, propulsion used about 1kWh/mile (7.5kWh/day), total power input including idle losses and standby power (3.5kWh/day) was 16kWh/day -- and in comparison average solar yield was 5.2kWh/day in summer (2kWp panels, including moving, shading etc). As you can see, with that amount of cruising (about 8 miles per day) solar can't keep up even in summer -- but cooking isn't the main reason... 😉 

 

Of course on some days in full sun solar yield is much higher, I've seen up to 12kWh/day in the absolute best case -- but that average includes shading from trees and buildings, not always mooring in full sun and so on, so it's a realistic measured figure over many days not an unrealistic best-case one... 😉 

 

So as you say, a shoreline or generator is pretty much essential, unless you're very abstemious with power use, don't move much, and it's really sunny and you're not shaded. 

 

P.S. Most people wistfully planning electric boats don't use such realistic numbers, and paint a much more optimistic picture.

Thank you Ian thats about the figures i was looking at hence the diesel generator. also hoping wind will add a little to the equation.

 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Samantha Helps said:

Thank you Ian thats about the figures i was looking at hence the diesel generator. also hoping wind will add a little to the equation.

 

You're welcome 🙂

 

I hope you took the advice about why you really *really* shouldn't use ex-Leaf batteries? 😉 

[Tony Brooks]

2 hours ago, Samantha Helps said:

also hoping wind will add a little to the equation

 

Little being the operative word for most UK inland locations. The rated (advertised) outputs of wind generators really are only true for near gale force and very steady winds, but inland those conditions are not that common. Often the local topography makes the wing gusty and fluky, so the generator swings about. I doubt you will average more than a very few amps, but into LPF batteries I suppose it will help, think about how cost-effective wind will be - you will also need a tall pole to get the generator as high as practical. They are also very noisy, I doubt you would keep it running for long if you mounted it on your roof, if you mount it on land you also need to consider how the noise may affect any neighbours.