BSS fail - what happens next?

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, agg221 said:

The point which is both easy and utterly subjective is suitable labelling for the location of the battery isolator. I can buy a sign and I can fix it on, but where would be acceptable really does need the comment of the examiner.

A label maker is your friend. Just place the labels where he says, takes seconds to print them out. I put these labels on 20 years ago  so it has passed at least 4 BSS exams.

 

There  are similar labels next to the diesel shut off (2 of them)  and battery master switches (3 of them). I sold it in 2012 so assume it has passed every time since.

 

 

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

Ok fair enough, but I can see some examiners not liking it.

You can challenge them with the actual wording of the BSS ....the pipe requires a leak free access to the boat....sealant is permitted.

[agg221]

1 hour ago, GUMPY said:

A label maker is your friend. Just place the labels where he says, takes seconds to print them out. I put these labels on 20 years ago  so it has passed at least 4 BSS exams.

As you say, it's straightforward but I need to know what is an acceptable location. I don't have an ideal photograph but this one sort of shows the issue - the shut off is located below the shelf that the hydraulic tank is standing on, on the bulkhead.

 

Alec

[GUMPY]

10 minutes ago, agg221 said:

As you say, it's straightforward but I need to know what is an acceptable location. I don't have an ideal photograph but this one sort of shows the issue - the shut off is located below the shelf that the hydraulic tank is standing on, on the bulkhead.

 

Alec

A label on the panel above the Morris oil can saying " diesel shutoff located behind" 

 

I've found the words behind and under invaluable when making bss labels.

The label just has to indicate the position of the tap/switch 

 

[jonathanA]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

Another question raised is the implication earlier in this thread that a current BSS is made invalid by a subsequent fail during the final couple of months of its four year term.

 

I suspect it isn't, or why bother doing it early? 

it isn't ! its not an MOT were a 'Major Defect' means you can't take the car on the road, regardless of whether the previous MOT has expired or not.

 

My BSS guys likes people to book their BSS a month before expiry of previous, so you have time to put stuff right. (he also does one retest free of charge). 

 

They are supposed to give you a written statement of their charges and re-test fees before starting (this is something new i was told) 

[agg221]

32 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

A label on the panel above the Morris oil can saying " diesel shutoff located behind" 

 

I've found the words behind and under invaluable when making bss labels.

The label just has to indicate the position of the tap/switch 

 

It's actually the battery shut-off in this case but yes, that's my best guess as to how to do this, but I would like the examiner to confirm that this will be acceptable, otherwise it feels rather like I could end up with a sort of trail of breadcrumbs effect, with a series of arrows pointing successively towards it!

 

Alec

[MtB]

33 minutes ago, agg221 said:

It's actually the battery shut-off in this case but yes, that's my best guess as to how to do this, but I would like the examiner to confirm that this will be acceptable, otherwise it feels rather like I could end up with a sort of trail of breadcrumbs effect, with a series of arrows pointing successively towards it!

 

Alec

Has anyone ever been killed by a missing battery cut off label? 
 

I suspect not…

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

13 minutes ago, MtB said:

Has anyone ever been killed by a missing battery cut off label? 
 

I suspect not…

 

 

You're confusing the BSS with something to do with safety, rather than jobs for the boys.

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, GUMPY said:

A label maker is your friend. Just place the labels where he says, takes seconds to print them out. I put these labels on 20 years ago  so it has passed at least 4 BSS exams.

And a fat lot of use it is knowing where the battery master switch and diesel shut off are when they are behind a steel door with a padlocked locking bar across the front of it!

[GUMPY]

18 minutes ago, David Mack said:

And a fat lot of use it is knowing where the battery master switch and diesel shut off are when they are behind a steel door with a padlocked locking bar across the front of it!

I can't see a padlock?

It could be three if you so wished.

The boat was built with security in mind as it spent it's formative years in the Hell hole that is Hebden Bridge😱

 

It still passed the bss😉

I never saw the point of the horizontal bar  but it was there so I left it.

[Tacet]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If work is done during the life of a BSS then, if it affects anything covered by the BSS, it should be discussed with &/or 'signed off' by an examiner.

 

This paragraph is on your certificate :

 

The owner’s on-going responsibility: it is crucial to maintain the vessel in good condition in accordance with the safety requirements; and, any other licensing, registration or mooring conditions of the relevant navigation or harbour authority. The validity of a BSS pass result may be affected and can be cancelled if the vessel is not properly maintained; and/or non-compliant alterations are made....

 

Every occasion when the LPG cylinder is changed, it is unsecured for a few minutes at least and therefore not BSS compliant.

 

Does this mean the validity of the BSSC is foregone?  And is it magically reinstated when the cylinders are properly resecured?

 

Presumably the boat is uninsured during the process too.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

9 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Every occasion when the LPG cylinder is changed, it is unsecured for a few minutes at least and therefore not BSS compliant.

 

Does this mean the validity of the BSSC is foregone?  And is it magically reinstated when the cylinders are properly resecured?

 

Presumably the boat is uninsured during the process too.

Similarly, if the labels for diesel, water, pump out etc are built in to the caps, is the BSS invalid when they are removed for filling, or emptying? Often Lead acid batteries will need changing between BSS exams, breaking the securing and connector protection requirements during the process. 

[MtB]

26 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Every occasion when the LPG cylinder is changed, it is unsecured for a few minutes at least and therefore not BSS compliant.

 

Does this mean the validity of the BSSC is foregone?  And is it magically reinstated when the cylinders are properly resecured?

 

Presumably the boat is uninsured during the process too.

 

 

Alan's solution to this imponderable quandry appears to be a £4,000 PCA.

 

 

Sorted! 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Alan's solution to this imponderable quandry appears to be a £4,000 PCA.

 

 

Sorted! 

 

 

 

 

It is not MY solution - you asked a question, to which I could have answered yes or no, but if you were true to form, you'd have then asked for evidence of what I was saying, so to save time, I posted the supporting documentation which every man and his dog now seems to assume is what I want.

 

Maybe you should accuse the BSS of scaremongering - it is their rules I quote.

 

You can easily find the information on the BSS website if you can be bothered to look.

[MtB]

20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

It is not MY solution - you asked a question, to which I could have answered yes or no, but if you were true to form, you'd have then asked for evidence of what I was saying, so to save time, I posted the supporting documentation which every man and his dog now seems to assume is what I want.

 

Maybe you should accuse the BSS of scaremongering - it is their rules I quote.

 

You can easily find the information on the BSS website if you can be bothered to look.

 

 

Yawn.

 

34,999 boaters realise there is no enforcement so why bother. It's only you who loves all the box-ticking and the £4k PCAs! 

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, Tacet said:

Every occasion when the LPG cylinder is changed, it is unsecured for a few minutes at least and therefore not BSS compliant.

 

Does this mean the validity of the BSSC is foregone?  And is it magically reinstated when the cylinders are properly resecured?

 

Presumably the boat is uninsured during the process too.

Uninsured and BSSInvalid means licence revoked. Do you think you can get Section 8'd whilst changing the gas?

[Rob-M]

12 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Uninsured and BSSInvalid means licence revoked. Do you think you can get Section 8'd whilst changing the gas?

Only if it takes you at least 10 years to get the new bottle in.

[DHutch]

On 25/10/2025 at 00:49, agg221 said:

Electrical system - the isolator is not easily visible and needs signage. I thought this was advisory but apparently it is compulsory? Because of where it is I can't actually figure out how to put a visible sign anywhere useful to show its location. I am hoping that the examiner can advise as to what would be satisfactory.

 

We need a fuse in the wire from the leisure batteries. There are actually three wires, none of which have fuses in the wire itself. One goes to the bilge pump, one to the busbar for the 12V and one to the inverter. I know it is one of the heavy wires that needs a fuse, but I don't know which (you also can't tell which goes to which as the wires are concealed behind the lining).

There isn't space to fit a fuse at either end and I can't cut and re-crimp the cable (too thick) to simply mount it in-line. I also don't know what the rating would need to be, but since nobody else does either I am simply presuming so long as a fuse is visible it will be a tick, so I go as big as possible without going into one of the very expensive type. Our power usage is minimal anyway - we don't have the 240V wired up and the 12V is 8 LEDs and a water pump. I don't really know what I am doing with this one.

 

I thought I would cover the electrical side a bit as others haven't that I can see.

 

Firstly, the primary job of a fuse or breaker is to protect the cable. So it needs to be sized small enough to provide adequate protect to the cable, and large enough to safely provide power to the device(s) its supplying. So you need to know the size of the cable and the power of the device.

 

In your case you have three wires off the battery and they likely all need their own overcurrent protection. 

 

The fuse should be fitted as close to the supply (battery) end as practical to minimise the chance of the fault occurring between the battery and fuse. All three should also be able to be isolated from the power supply. 

 

 

 

 

Bilge pumps are often wired directly so they continue to work even when the majority is isolated, on the basis the risk of a flat battery is less than that of the boat sinking and or the fire risk. For a steel boat ingress should be minimal and or zero, but often aft and or bow deck areas direct rain to the bilge. 

So check the cable size and look up the rating of the pump, pick a fuse size, and fit a suitable fuse and holder into the cable. 5A is probably about right and although they are basically awful one of the in-line rubber blades fuse holders is probably as good as anything else unless there is somewhere easy for a bulkhead fuse carrier. 

 

 

Fuse for the supply to the "busbar" and or distribution panel is likely best sized to suit the cable. Hopefully its cross section area is printed on the side of the cable,  if not you will have to estimate. If its thicker then you can terminate, you can likely move the battery end to the fuse carrier,  and then get a link lead to go from fuse to battery. Halfords do some heavy duty pretermated cables, else there are plenty of folk who could make you one us and post it. 

 

For the inverter, the manual likely states the required fuse size. Else you can work out a sensible size from the power output of the inverter. 

 

Where is the battery isolator in all of this?

And the batteries? In the engine room?

 

Post pictures of the current setup and or further information if you want. 

 

 

 

 

[agg221]

1 hour ago, DHutch said:

 

I thought I would cover the electrical side a bit as others haven't that I can see.

...

Where is the battery isolator in all of this?

And the batteries? In the engine room?

 

Post pictures of the current setup and or further information if you want. 

 

Thank you for that, much appreciated. Annoyingly I do not have many photos which show the arrangement, but actually there isn't much to see. @Ben Jameson seems to have an impressive collection of photos of boat battery systems and this one is mine. We were measuring up to fit something to restrain the batteries, which is pertinent to the next bit. What you can see is two leisure batteries with three wires coming off - two fat, one thin (the latter to the bilge pump). There doesn't appear to be a requirement to fit a fuse in line to the bilge pump and to be honest I would rather burn out the pump than risk the fuse failing, since it will buy me more time under circumstances where I need it. I did once come back to rather a lot of water in the boat, thankfully not above the floor level, due to a slightly dripping stern gland, so I am cautious. One of the fat wires probably goes to the 12V busbar, via the battery isolator; the other to the inverter. I can work out which is which using a multimeter. There doesn't appear to be a need to fit a fuse in-line in the 12V line with the isolator, which surprised me, only in the inverter line?

 

The arrangement we have is an engine room in the middle of the boat, with a steel engine bed.  This raises the engine higher than usual because the bed forms the diesel tank. It also spreads the load out port and starboard with steel braces across the beam of the boat, which are effectively horizontal engine bearers, as recommended by Kelvin. On the port side these are below the floor but on the starboard side (non-walkway side) they are full height and the space between the two forward bearers, the longitudinal bearer and the hull forms a battery compartment. The hull is round so it does not make a good face to brace batteries against. I have therefore drilled a 12mm hole in line in both the forward and aft braces and threaded a length of studding through, then locked it in place with a nut at each end. Before doing so, I made suitably sized wood blocks which hold the batteries in place - I can easily fit a megafuse holder to the top of the block.

 

The wires then disappear immediately behind the liner, so their route is conjecture. The photograph shown earlier in the thread indicates where the isolator is located; the inverter is in the cupboard above, as is the distribution board with individual switchable fuses for the circuits (this may be why an in-line fuse is not required for this circuit?)

 

The inverter is not actually functional - we have never turned it on as none of the 240V is wired in and I have not prioritised this, but fitting a fuse is easier than removing the wiring.

 

This does raise one question though - how do I ascertain the diameter of the wire if it is not written on it? In theory, I could strip back a length, count the strands and measure a strand with verniers, but the only end I currently have access to has a crimp connection on it and measuring over the insulation isn't going to tell me much. Ideas?

 

I have been looking at the cheap crimping tools on Ebay. It looks like I can buy a crimping set to cover everything up to 50mm^2, complete with a pack of terminals, for under £30 delivered in a couple of days. This would certainly make the job easier but has anyone tried one? It doesn't have to hold up for long, but it does have to make the necessary few crimps before bending!

 

With reference to the other points, we managed to speak to the examiner this morning. Sealing the gas locker fitting is straightforward (a bit of sealant) and the fuel plumbing will be tedious but achievable - replace all soft soldered joints (courtesy of the PO) before the engine itself with brazed or compression fittings. The battery isolator label will go exactly where @GUMPY proposed. It is still not going to be quick because there is quite a lot of faffing about to sort out the fuel system, cut and crimp wires etc, but it will be a few weeks as I originally thought and is not any worse.

 

Alec

 

 

Edited October 26, 2025 by agg221

[Jen-in-Wellies]

31 minutes ago, agg221 said:

There doesn't appear to be a requirement to fit a fuse in line to the bilge pump

It should have a fuse and can fail if it doesn't. A blade fuse holder like this can be easily spliced in to the wire. https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/standard-blade-fuse-holder-with-cover.html

 

See BSS Private boat requirement 3.6.2

Quote

Except those which feed
equipment requiring a
continuous supply, all DC
electrical load circuits must pass
through a battery isolator.
Circuits which feed equipment
requiring a continuous supply
which do not pass through
a battery isolator must be
protected by a suitable fuse or
circuit-breaker.

 

31 minutes ago, agg221 said:

looks like I can buy a crimping set to cover everything up to 50mm^2, complete with a pack of terminals, for under £30 delivered in a couple of days. This would certainly make the job easier but has anyone tried one? It doesn't have to hold up for long, but it does have to make the necessary few crimps before bending!

Don't know about the cheap hydraulic ones, but I have used the hit with s hammer sort foe many many battery lead crimps.

 

31 minutes ago, agg221 said:

This does raise one question though - how do I ascertain the diameter of the wire if it is not written on it?

If you undo the nut holding the crimp connector to the battery post, you should hopefully see two numbers on the flat of the connector. Something like 8 - 25, or 10 - 50. One number is the hole diameter, the other is the size of wire it takes. That at least gives you a maximum size the wire could be. If the crimp itself doesn't look massively crushed, then it is likely the actual wire size. 

 

 

 

[alias]

12 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Don't know about the cheap hydraulic ones, but I have used the hit with s hammer sort foe many many battery lead crimps.

 

When a BSS inspector told me to put a 100A fuse in a big lead from a battery he directed me to the bottom lock chandlery at Braunston who did it for me for the price of the fuse and holder.  They've closed now, but do other chandleries do the same perhaps? 

Edited October 26, 2025 by alias

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 minute ago, alias said:

 

When a BSS inspector told me to put a 100A fuse in a lead from battery he directed me to the bottom lock chandlery at Braunston who did it for me for the price of the fuse and holder.  They've closed now, but do other chandleries do the same perhaps? 

Possibly so. I had a similar experience at another, now closed chsndlery. Unless offering this service causes a business to close! Worth the OP asking. 

16 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If you undo the nut holding the crimp connector to the battery post, you should hopefully see two numbers on the flat of the connector. Something like 8 - 25, or 10 - 50. One number is the hole diameter, the other is the size of wire it takes.

Slight mistake. The first number is wire size, the second is hole diameter. At least on the tube connector ceimps I have. 

[Arthur Marshall]

23 minutes ago, alias said:

 

When a BSS inspector told me to put a 100A fuse in a big lead from a battery he directed me to the bottom lock chandlery at Braunston who did it for me for the price of the fuse and holder.  They've closed now, but do other chandleries do the same perhaps? 

I was told this is advisory, though my inspector insisted on it. I never found out which is correct, though it now seems to be commonly accepted as compulsory and I can't be bothered to look it up.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 hour ago, agg221 said:

Top tip. Make sure when using a metal tape measure around batteries, not to let it simultaneously contact a +v terminal and either a -ve terminal, or boat hull!

[system 4-50]

18 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Top tip. Make sure when using a metal tape measure around batteries, not to let it simultaneously contact a +v terminal and either a -ve terminal, or boat hull!

Yes, or you'll get a short reading.