BSS fail - what happens next?

[agg221]

Our BSS examination was undertaken today and we failed on quite a few points. Some of them are trivial and I know how to fix them; others I do not know how to fix or will take a considerable amount of time/work. For the avoidance of doubt, this is the first BSS in our ownership and nothing that I have done to the boat has failed - it is all things which were already in place and may/may not have been requirements last time it was examined. I could provide a list, but that isn't really the point of this question.

 

The previous certificate expires in mid-November and we have just renewed the insurance. The licence is due on November 1st.

 

Obviously there is no option to fix everything and have a re-test within a week, so what happens next?

 

Best case answer would be that we can re-licence off the back of the current certificate and then nobody is going to notice/care so long as we get the work done within a reasonable time (months?) However, is that the reality or do I have a much bigger problem?

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[matty40s]

Talk us through the issues, either on here or PM, and it might not be as serious as you think it is....

Licence the boat now, claim your early payment discount, and then sort the issues at your leisure. If you leave it until the BSS examiner uploads his files, you may not be able to relicence as the CRT machine may see the test fail...time is of the essence. 

[agg221]

10 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Talk us through the issues, either on here or PM, and it might not be as serious as you think it is....

Licence the boat now, claim your early payment discount, and then sort the issues at your leisure. If you leave it until the BSS examiner uploads his files, you may not be able to relicence as the CRT machine may see the test fail...time is of the essence. 

Thanks for the heads-up, just done the licence and got it through before the files were uploaded, so now we have some time.

 

I haven't yet spoken to the examiner - it was done this afternoon while I was at work so only have an email to go on. A conversation may fill in some of the gaps but for now- we fail on gas, fuel and electrical systems (although the Epping stove is OK...!)

 

Electrical system - the isolator is not easily visible and needs signage. I thought this was advisory but apparently it is compulsory? Because of where it is I can't actually figure out how to put a visible sign anywhere useful to show its location. I am hoping that the examiner can advise as to what would be satisfactory.

We need a fuse in the wire from the leisure batteries. There are actually three wires, none of which have fuses in the wire itself. One goes to the bilge pump, one to the busbar for the 12V and one to the inverter. I know it is one of the heavy wires that needs a fuse, but I don't know which (you also can't tell which goes to which as the wires are concealed behind the lining). There isn't space to fit a fuse at either end and I can't cut and re-crimp the cable (too thick) to simply mount it in-line. I also don't know what the rating would need to be, but since nobody else does either I am simply presuming so long as a fuse is visible it will be a tick, so I go as big as possible without going into one of the very expensive type. Our power usage is minimal anyway - we don't have the 240V wired up and the 12V is 8 LEDs and a water pump. I don't really know what I am doing with this one.

 

Fuel - a loose fitting elbow on the fuel filler to tank connection, which I can probably fix, although it isn't trivial because the pipe has to point a particular direction and I suspect it is loose because it does not point in the right direction when tightened. I am hoping that if I can find the right sized BSP nut and there is exposed thread under the elbow then I can lock it solid from below. I haven't worked out what size BSP it is (possibly 1.25"), but if there isn't enough exposed thread I may be able to cut the thread further down the tube if I have the right sized die.

Soft soldered sections in the fuel system. Not sure where these are exactly - will need to take a look over the whole system but I can address anything in the fill pipe (take it apart, clean it up and hard solder it) and the same for anything in the pipes from the main tank to the day tank and the day tank to the engine. If i have the latter it may be possible to eliminate if I can find the correct diameter soft copper pipe and run it in one piece. If the pipe from the filter to the pump has steel ends with a copper pipe soldered over them then that will be a bit tricky but I should be able to braze it with a bit of luck. The thing I can't do is convert the actual Kelvin parts in the petrol start system from soft soldered to brazed as they will distort and no longer seal. My understanding was that, being original engine parts, and not part of the permanent fuel system (the petrol start components which only run during start-up) they were not covered - otherwise no Kelvin will pass in future unless it has the cold start heads fitted?

 

Gas - this is the problem one. The test point is not sufficiently supported - drill and tap holes in the gas locker or is it acceptable to glue a wood block to the side with epoxy and secure to that, which doesn't risk creating a new leak point? There is something wrong with the way the pipe passes through the hole out of the gas locker - I need to understand this one better but I think what we have is the pipe straight through a brass fitting rather than cut and fitted each side of a bulkhead fitting with a compression joint. I prefer what we have as it cannot have a leak but need to know whether a grommet is an acceptable solution to seal it or whether I am going to have to re-fit the whole thing with a compression bulkhead fitting. The issue with this is that there is no access to the outside of the locker without cutting out the bow deck, which is welded in, so I would really rather not do that as it will make a mess and once welded back up it will always have the potential to leak and require cutting out again to access it. There is then a leak at the cooker - if I'm lucky it will simply be the connection at the pipe which needs nipping up a bit but if it's any further in then I have a problem as I doubt that I will get anyone to work on it. It's the only cooker that fits the space. It is an obsolete model and anything else would mean a complete redesign to the galley, probably sacrificing the fridge in the process due to lack of space, so I pretty much have to find a way to fix it.

 

The alternative of oil lamps, Epping stove and a horse is looking quite viable though.

 

Alec

[MtB]

This sort of nit-picking fail is great reason always to use the same examiner that did the preceding ticket, if possible. 

 

Once you've unpicked this raft of nits, stick with the current guy as next time he will know if he finds more nits to pick, you will ask why he didn't find them last time around!

 

But should you use another examiner next time, expect a whole different and new raft of nits to unpick. 

 

 

[blackrose]

The way you've written it, it doesn't sound like you were with the examiner during the inspection, in which case that's why it's difficult for you to understand exactly what is meant/required for some or the failures. Reading it on a piece of paper isn't the same as being there and having someone talk you through the problems. That doesn't help you now but it might prevent someone else from making the same mistake.

 

For the gas test point, yes you can stick a piece of hardwood to the steel bulkhead, etc to screw your support onto. Use one of the many PU adhesives as they are strong and stay flexible. Lots of them at Screwfix and Toolstation: CT1, OB1 Sticks like Sh*t, Stixall, etc. I've used several pieces of wood stuck to the steel to support the pipe under the gunwale going from the bow gas locker to the cabin bulkhead. If you key both surfaces first and clean off the dust they will bond well. After 24 hours you'd need a hammer and chisel to separate them.

 

The gas pipe though bulkhead is an odd one. I have a single length of uncut gas pipe going through a brass bulkhead fitting without a joint and it's never been picked up as a problem. I thought that was safer that having an unnecessary joint at the bulkhead which could potentially leak?

Edited October 25, 2025 by blackrose

[Stroudwater1]

Very sad to hear this. Must admit it’s very wise after the event but a cup of tea friendly chat and clearly showing how well you know the boat would have helped greatly. Once you demonstrated how to fire up the lovely Kelvin she would have passed with flying colours. 
 

I don’t know if a new examiner would check back on this ones report or if it’s possible to do but if it is I would have a chat with a few boaters around to find out a friendly BSS examiner who may be less prone to seek out intricacies based on opinion.
 

 

[nealeST]

I read with interest. My BSS due April and I’m trusting it to the examiner attached to the Marina ( no choice..actually stipulated to me on my booking for winter storage). However, after reading this I will make certain I’m in attendance on the day. You can do it two months in advance so that puts me February. Good luck Alec, you’ll get it fixed.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

8 hours ago, agg221 said:

We need a fuse in the wire from the leisure batteries. There are actually three wires, none of which have fuses in the wire itself. One goes to the bilge pump, one to the busbar for the 12V and one to the inverter.

 

A photo of the wiring around the batts, emailed to the examiner, should narrow down which wires he means. 

 

8 hours ago, agg221 said:

Our power usage is minimal anyway - we don't have the 240V wired up and the 12V is 8 LEDs and a water pump

Size the fuse to the current carrying capacity of the wire, not the usage. It is there to protect the wiring, not the gadget on the end. 

8 hours ago, agg221 said:

There is something wrong with the way the pipe passes through the hole out of the gas locker - I need to understand this one better but I think what we have is the pipe straight through a brass fitting rather than cut and fitted each side of a bulkhead fitting with a compression joint. I prefer what we have as it cannot have a leak but need to know whether a grommet is an acceptable solution to seal it or whether I am going to have to re-fit the whole thing with a compression bulkhead fitting. The issue with this is that there is no access to the outside of the locker without cutting out the bow deck, which is welded in, so I would really rather not do that

Having the gas pipe pass through a bulkhead fitting in one go is common and s good idea, as it eliminates joints. Is the bulkhead fitting below the level of the outlet of the gas bottle? If so, this may be the problem, as gas could seep out between the pipe and fitting. Check with the BSS guy. Some sealant around the pipe and fitting can be an acceptable solution here. Quick and saves introducing extrs joints and hacking about.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

You could either consider yourself lucky that you got a 'good' examiner who found all the potentially dangerous faults, or, you could consider yourself unlucky and he was just a job-sheet checker.

 

The thing to rememeber is that not only is it a requirement of the 1995 Act of Parliament that your boat meets the required safety staandards it is also specified in your licence application that you have a BSS, and it must be maintained throughout the licence period.

Many / all insurance policies have a statement that if there is a requirement to have a safety certificate, then it is also a requirement of the insurance, and if your BSS lapses your insurance is not valid.

 

I'm sure you will 'get away with it' for a period, but I'd suggest you get the failures rectified ASAP (if not sooner).

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Stroudwater1 said:

...........don’t know if a new examiner would check back on this ones report or if it’s possible to do .................

 

My last Examiner did just that - as he got on the boat he booted up his 'puter and immediately had the last BSS report in front of him and reeled off what was said last time.

[MtB]

Another question raised is the implication earlier in this thread that a current BSS is made invalid by a subsequent fail during the final couple of months of its four year term.

 

I suspect it isn't, or why bother doing it early? 

[agg221]

Thanks for the comments so far. To address a couple of those related to circumstances, there are good reasons why we chose the examiner we did. Bear in mind that we bought the boat with a fresh certificate and did not introduce any points of failure, but I had already addressed some major failure points so in practical terms the previous certificate was only a means to a license and in no way an indication that the boat was safe. I therefore wanted to be confident that any issues were found this time.

 

We did seek to get the examination done at the beginning of the time window (we actually first engaged in discussion with the examiner at Easter) but the time line did get right shifted much closer to the due date than we had anticipated, most recently on the Wednesday, when it was moved from Thursday to Friday. I had moved my meetings to Friday to clear my diary but I couldn’t move them again at short notice so I was unable to be there in person as planned. I am hoping to have a conversation with the examiner about some of the details and what is acceptable at some point today, but with the boat 3hrs away and some of the fixes needing parts that will need to be measured up it will take me at least two visits to get it up to requirements and then there will be the time between booking the re-test and it being undertaken, so it is going to be some weeks. This is not ignoring the issue, just a reality.

 

Thank you for the practical advice - it gives me options to suggest to the examiner which is always easier.

 

Alec

[Jen-in-Wellies]

If you haven't already done so, download the private boat requirements from the BSS web site. You can then go through each fail point. The requirements give useful examples of what is acceptable, which can give you ideas for picking a solution that will work with your boat. At the moment, it looks almost insurmountable, but looking at each fail point individually breaks the problem down in to more manageable chunks. 

[Tacet]

42 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The thing to rememeber is that not only is it a requirement of the 1995 Act of Parliament that your boat meets the required safety staandards i

Is it a statutory requirement?  I can see the bits that allow the Board to refuse a licence if there is no BSS, but that's another matter.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

Another question raised is the implication earlier in this thread that a current BSS is made invalid by a subsequent fail during the final couple of months of its four year term.

 

I suspect it isn't, or why bother doing it early? 

 

If work is done during the life of a BSS then, if it affects anything covered by the BSS, it should be discussed with &/or 'signed off' by an examiner.

 

This paragraph is on your certificate :

 

The owner’s on-going responsibility: it is crucial to maintain the vessel in good condition in accordance with the safety requirements; and, any other licensing, registration or mooring conditions of the relevant navigation or harbour authority. The validity of a BSS pass result may be affected and can be cancelled if the vessel is not properly maintained; and/or non-compliant alterations are made....

 

The suggestion is :

 

NABSE strongly supports the recommendation for purchasers not to place undue reliance on any accompanying BSSC as proof that a boat is compliant with the requirements of the Boat Safety Scheme (BSS) at the time of purchase. Prospective buyers are encouraged to check that the boat's paperwork actually reflects the configuration of the boat for sale. If, for example, the boat has had an engine change, major electrical re-work, a galley re-fit or any of its LPG appliances changed/upgraded since its last examination, the certificate may not be valid if the work was carried out in a non-BSS compliant manner (which could also have insurance implications

 

 

For owners who are contemplating changes to their craft's configuration, NABSE recommends that they ensure that the work is carried out by a company/individual who is competent to carry out the work and understands the requirements of the Boat Safety Scheme. For those intending to implement such changes themselves, they should, in the first instance, seek guidance from the BSS Office (http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/contact-us) to establish if the intended work may impact upon the validity of their current BSSC.

Where owners are thinking of making changes around the time that their current BSSC is due renewal, NABSE recommends that they contact a BSS Examiner to ascertain if the work they are contemplating has the possibility to invalidate their 'new' BSSC.

 

It is to all intents and purposes the same as your car MOT - if it fails (according to my last MOT failure in September) you arr not legally allowed to drive it away from the MOT station unless you are going somewhere to have it 'fixed', you then still officially have an MOT failure vehicle until the new 'pass' MOT is issued.

This is why you must have an appointment to drive it to the retest.

[Arthur Marshall]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If work is done during the life of a BSS then, if it affects anything covered by the BSS, it should be discussed with &/or 'signed off' by an examiner.

Which is one of those daft suggestions that, whether ir not it is mentioned anywhere, is patently ridiculous. I'm sure the examiners would love it as they'd have a constant income during the year at the usual exorbitant fees, but seeing as how 99% of boaters haven't a clue what's in the BSS, it's simply farcical to even suggest it.

It would imply that if I replaced a CO monitor, fire extinguisher, added a porthole or had anything done to the engine I instantly phone up an examiner...

Typical scaremongering post by Alan.

[agg221]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If you haven't already done so, download the private boat requirements from the BSS web site. You can then go through each fail point. The requirements give useful examples of what is acceptable, which can give you ideas for picking a solution that will work with your boat. At the moment, it looks almost insurmountable, but looking at each fail point individually breaks the problem down in to more manageable chunks. 

Thanks Jen,

 

Most of the issues aren't too difficult, and I know what needs doing but it will take time. For example, to address the soft soldered joints in the fuel filler pipework I can visit the boat, take it apart, measure up for a lock nut and see if there is enough thread already cut for it, bring the pipework home, dismantle it, remove the old solder residue and braze it all back together, then take it back to the boat and re-fit it, complete with a lock nut. It will be quite time-consuming because although there are not that many joints, it is in 1.5" copper so the surface area of each joint is quite large and it needs to be done on a hearth to keep the heat in (I can't really use oxy-acetylene for this). There are elements of the unknown here - I need to figure out whether it is physically possible to remove the pipe or whether it was soldered in-situ. I can de-solder it to remove it, but I can't then braze it back in because I won't keep enough heat in. These are the kinds of fiddly, slow questions that always take a lot longer than they should.

 

Other points are subjective as to which option would be most suitable. I would rather propose solutions, check they will be acceptable and then implement them with confidence that they will pass, rather than pick something, do it and then have to argue about it. This is where the collective wisdom of the forum helps, in suggesting or pointing me at possible options, e.g. how to deal with the gas pipe where it exits the locker, or how to fix down the test point. I have tried to do this in the past, e.g. some may recall my efforts to confirm what would be acceptable when I installed the Refleks stove, but it can be annoyingly subjective, the prevailing response being 'well, you install it and then we will come and look at it and tell you if you need to change anything' so in the end I gave up on trying to get a definitive answer on the stove and just did the best I could (the stove was fine btw, as was the fuel supply I installed to it - all the fuel issues are from the system installed before we bought the boat).

 

The point which is both easy and utterly subjective is suitable labelling for the location of the battery isolator. I can buy a sign and I can fix it on, but where would be acceptable really does need the comment of the examiner.

 

There are three points which I find particularly challenging to address.

The first may go away after a conversation with the examiner - that's the soft-soldered parts which are original engine fittings (the Kelvin petrol start). The wording of the email report is unclear on this point and it may well be that we are in agreement that these are original components and are not permanent parts of the fuel system but rather part of the starting arrangement then that becomes a non-issue. If they are deemed an issue then no Kelvin could pass the BSS with a petrol start fitted; they do, so there must be an alternative interpretation here.

The second is the fuse. I am very good on mechanical and engineering points. I am, however, blinded by electrics. For this one I will need a Ladybird guide level solution which just tells me what to buy and how it must be fitted. The physical act of fitting is then fine.

The third is the gas cooker. If it is leaking at the connection to the inlet pipe then I don't have a problem; anything else and I do, because I need to identify somebody who is both willing and qualified to address the issue and at present I don't have anyone.

 

The good news of the morning is that the underwriters have finally accepted that a formal valuation of the boat is not required to renew the insurance, so at least that one is ticked off the list!

 

Alec

Edited October 25, 2025 by agg221

[MtB]

38 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If work is done during the life of a BSS then, if it affects anything covered by the BSS, it should be discussed with &/or 'signed off' by an examiner.

 

This paragraph is on your certificate :

 

The owner’s on-going responsibility: it is crucial to maintain the vessel in good condition in accordance with the safety requirements; and, any other licensing, registration or mooring conditions of the relevant navigation or harbour authority. The validity of a BSS pass result may be affected and can be cancelled if the vessel is not properly maintained; and/or non-compliant alterations are made....

 

The suggestion is :

 

NABSE strongly supports the recommendation for purchasers not to place undue reliance on any accompanying BSSC as proof that a boat is compliant with the requirements of the Boat Safety Scheme (BSS) at the time of purchase. Prospective buyers are encouraged to check that the boat's paperwork actually reflects the configuration of the boat for sale. If, for example, the boat has had an engine change, major electrical re-work, a galley re-fit or any of its LPG appliances changed/upgraded since its last examination, the certificate may not be valid if the work was carried out in a non-BSS compliant manner (which could also have insurance implications

 

 

For owners who are contemplating changes to their craft's configuration, NABSE recommends that they ensure that the work is carried out by a company/individual who is competent to carry out the work and understands the requirements of the Boat Safety Scheme. For those intending to implement such changes themselves, they should, in the first instance, seek guidance from the BSS Office (http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/contact-us) to establish if the intended work may impact upon the validity of their current BSSC.

Where owners are thinking of making changes around the time that their current BSSC is due renewal, NABSE recommends that they contact a BSS Examiner to ascertain if the work they are contemplating has the possibility to invalidate their 'new' BSSC.

 

It is to all intents and purposes the same as your car MOT - if it fails (according to my last MOT failure in September) you arr not legally allowed to drive it away from the MOT station unless you are going somewhere to have it 'fixed', you then still officially have an MOT failure vehicle until the new 'pass' MOT is issued.

This is why you must have an appointment to drive it to the retest.

 

 

Blimey a simple "yes" or "No" would have sufficed! 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2025 by MtB
spelling

[ditchcrawler]

Just realised that I have been making my boat none compliant.  When I leave it I remove the batteries from the smoke (not BSS) and CO alarms so that if the batteries go flat they don't annoy next door chirping for 24 hours. No working CO detector is a fail

[MtB]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Just realised that I have been making my boat none compliant.  When I leave it I remove the batteries from the smoke (not BSS) and CO alarms so that if the batteries go flat they don't annoy next door chirping for 24 hours. No working CO detector is a fail

 

How lucky are you to survive your death-trap of a boat from the moment you take those batteries out, to when you put them back in and make it all safe again? 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

How lucky are you to survive your death-trap of a boat from the moment you take those batteries out, to when you put them back in and make it all safe again? 

 

 

I do it before I light the stove or start the engine, I just hope there is no CO build up from the boat next door when the wife first goes in.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I do it before I light the stove or start the engine, I just hope there is no CO build up from the boat next door when the wife first goes in.

 

There is an emerging trend amongst us gas engineers to wear personal CO monitors. May be one of these would be handy to use when remving the batteries, lol! 

 

A more ridiculous thing it is hard to imagine though. There is no history of us gas bods getting CO-poisoned by appliances we are attending. It's nothing more than a fashion thing in my opinion.

[jonathanA]

36 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

There is an emerging trend amongst us gas engineers to wear personal CO monitors. May be one of these would be handy to use when remving the batteries, lol! 

 

A more ridiculous thing it is hard to imagine though. There is no history of us gas bods getting CO-poisoned by appliances we are attending. It's nothing more than a fashion thing in my opinion.

Next thing you'll br wearing body cams in case the customer abuses you by invading your personal space to see what your doing.... 

[blackrose]

3 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Having the gas pipe pass through a bulkhead fitting in one go is common and s good idea, as it eliminates joints. Is the bulkhead fitting below the level of the outlet of the gas bottle? If so, this may be the problem, as gas could seep out between the pipe and fitting. Check with the BSS guy. Some sealant around the pipe and fitting can be an acceptable solution here. Quick and saves introducing extrs joints and hacking about.

 

Yes on mine the "through pipe" passes through a bow cabin bulkhead fitting without a joint. If a pipe is going through the gas locker bulkhead it will either need a gas tight joint or as you say, the through fitting would need be above the height of the gas bottle. 

 

I'm not sure sealant will suffice. An examiner can test the soundness of a joint in the pipe by testing the system, but they have no way to test gas tightness of a sealed through fitting in a gas locker bulkhead.

 

For the same reason, when I was building benches either side of my bow well deck I had the steel angle iron brackets welded onto the gas locker bulkhead rather than drill through it and mount it with bolts. I know the holes/bolts would be easy enough to seal and it sounds ridiculous, but an examiner could claim he can't test the seal. I guess he could also claim he can't test the welds that hold the bulkhead in place but one can only go so far with this sort of thinking.

Edited October 25, 2025 by blackrose

[Jen-in-Wellies]

5 minutes ago, blackrose said:

m not sure sealant will suffice. An examiner can test the soundness of a joint in the pipe by testing the system, but they have no way to test gas tightness of a sealed through fitting in a gas locker bulkhead.

A BSS examiner suggested sealant to get a former neighbour's boat through. 

See section 7.2.2 

Quote

LPG pipework that exits cylinder lockers below the
highest point of the high-pressure stage components
must be sealed by either:
• a bulkhead fitting; or,
• a cable gland fitting; or,
• sealant.
The sealing arrangements must be free of signs of gaps or
other forms of damage or deterioration.
There must be no movement of the pipework within the
sealing arrangement when light manual force is applied to
the pipework.
Where sealant is used it must completely fill the area
between the pipe and the adjacent locker structure, and
it must not noticeably move or dislodge, and gaps must
not open when light manual force is applied to the LPG
pipework

 

[blackrose]

2 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

A BSS examiner suggested sealant to get a former neighbour's boat through. 

See section 7.2.2 

 

 

Ok fair enough, but I can see some examiners not liking it.