Oh Dear 🤦🏻‍♂️

[Chris John]

K&A apparently 

[matty40s]

Too many fenders, or has the lock wall moved, failed??

[David Mack]

Since neither boat has sunk, can't they just carefully refill the lock to free them, then lock through singly?

[matty40s]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

Since neither boat has sunk, can't they just carefully refill the lock to free them, then lock through singly?

Depends on whatever has jammed will let them rise again.

I would get big flotation balloons on the back end first.

[blackrose]

9 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I would get big flotation balloons on the back end first.

 

Yes, at that angle and with most of the weight on the sterns there's a fair chance that refilling the lock would just flood the boats, even if filled slowly.

[Mike Tee]

Posted rubbish - bit early for logic for me!

Edited October 10 by Mike Tee

[Rob-M]

Front ends appear to have wedged, either bulge in lock wall or fenders down.

3 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

Both top gate paddles are up so looks like they are filling it now. But an odd way to cill a boat - they must have been reversing 5hrough.

They are going down, that is bottom gate paddles that are fully up.

[David Mack]

5 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

Both top gate paddles are up so looks like they are filling it now. But an odd way to cill a boat - they must have been reversing 5hrough.

???

In the photos it is the bottom gate paddles that are up.

[magpie patrick]

29 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Too many fenders, or has the lock wall moved, failed??

 

K&A locks are slightly narrow (designed for 13 foot 8 not 14 feet) and as always some are narrower than others! 

5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

???

In the photos it is the bottom gate paddles that are up.

 

Indeed - most of the canal section doesn't have top gate paddles.

 

Anyone know which lock? 

[Stroudwater1]

Very nasty and sad. Hope all is OK.
 

The first image confused me as it looked like churned mud behind the stern. Its actually water with mud and ripples in it. 
 

The boats are floating at the rear then? 

[NB Thistle]

1 hour ago, matty40s said:

Too many fenders, or has the lock wall moved, failed??

I can see four fenders sitting on the roof of the ABC boat, and can't see any at all on the private one.

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:

 

K&A locks are slightly narrow (designed for 13 foot 8 not 14 feet) and as always some are narrower than others! 

 

Indeed - most of the canal section doesn't have top gate paddles.

 

Anyone know which lock? 

Just above Barge Inn (Seend Lock 19, I believe)

[doratheexplorer]

This looks to me like one of the boats' bow fenders has got caught on the bottom gate as the lock emptied.  No body was paying close attention and the hung up boat rolled slightly sideways, trapping the other boat too.  As always, the best advice, is pay attention to your boats when in locks.  There would likely have been a window of opportunity to stop the lock emptying before both boats became jammed.

[David Mack]

29 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

This looks to me like one of the boats' bow fenders has got caught on the bottom gate as the lock emptied.  No body was paying close attention and the hung up boat rolled slightly sideways, trapping the other boat too.  As always, the best advice, is pay attention to your boats when in locks.  There would likely have been a window of opportunity to stop the lock emptying before both boats became jammed.

I agree. This could easily have been caught before it developed into this situation. Looks like several crew about and nobody was watching. And is that a CRT vollie in the blue shirt?

[doratheexplorer]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

I agree. This could easily have been caught before it developed into this situation. Looks like several crew about and nobody was watching. And is that a CRT vollie in the blue shirt?

The solution is always the same in these situations.  Keep an eye on your boats and be ready to take corrective action.  Fixating on things like fenders up or down, encourages the kind of blasé attitude which leads to problems.

[magpie patrick]

6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I agree. This could easily have been caught before it developed into this situation. Looks like several crew about and nobody was watching. And is that a CRT vollie in the blue shirt?

 

2 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

The solution is always the same in these situations.  Keep an eye on your boats and be ready to take corrective action.  Fixating on things like fenders up or down, encourages the kind of blasé attitude which leads to problems.

 

I'm not suggesting that anyone did try to lower the paddles, but the gearboxes on these make them as slow as the hydraulic granny gear to operate even when closing them

[bizzard]

Playing on Smartphones is often the reason.

[David Mack]

In an emergency, if I couldn't drop the bottom paddles quickly, I might raise the top paddles to stabilise the lock water level at around half full until the bottom paddles can be closed.

[doratheexplorer]

2 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 

 

I'm not suggesting that anyone did try to lower the paddles, but the gearboxes on these make them as slow as the hydraulic granny gear to operate even when closing them

Even more reason to be alert then.

[Cheese]

2 hours ago, NB Thistle said:

I can see four fenders sitting on the roof of the ABC boat, and can't see any at all on the private one.

But neither can I see any fender ropes hanging over the side

[Col_T]

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

Just above Barge Inn (Seend Lock 19, I believe)

Looks about right to me, and that lock was a known pinch-point when we were on the K&A (2015-2019). Indeed, we were once held up for a couple of hours when 2 hire boats got themselves wedged.

[NB Thistle]

36 minutes ago, Cheese said:

But neither can I see any fender ropes hanging over the side

That was what I was trying (perhaps clumsily) to say. This incident was definitely not caused by fenders being down anyway.

Edited October 10 by NB Thistle

[AKD]

4 hours ago, Chris John said:

K&A apparently 

 

Going by the positions and angles at which both boats have finished up, it appears probable that the (shorter) blue boat may have entered the lock chamber with a pronounced list to port.

Given the slightly narrower width of the Kennet & Avon locks - compared with, say, the Junction or the Leeds & Liverpool, it is not unreasonable to suppose that this incident is more likely to be down to simple geometry leading to the starboard chine of a port listing, relatively deep-draughted forard, and normally level fore and aft trimmed boat getting caught in the courses of brickwork in the chamber wall, . . rather than being anything to do with side fenders being left down, or failing chamber walls, . . or getting hung up on its stem fender.

Edited October 10 by AKD

[IanM]

11 minutes ago, AKD said:

 

Going by the positions and angles at which both boats have finished up, it appears probable that the (shorter) blue boat may have entered the lock chamber with a pronounced list to port.

Given the slightly narrower width of the Kennet & Avon locks - compared with, say, the Junction and the Leeds & Liverpool, it is not unreasonable to suppose that this incident is more likely to be down to simple geometry leading to the starboard chine of the relatively deep-draughted forard and normally level trimmed (blue) boat getting caught in the courses of brickwork in the chamber wall, . . rather that being anything to do with side fenders being left down, or failing chamber walls.

 

Pretty sure you're overthinking it a bit.  A boat hung up by the bow will pivot around the point at which it is caught (DAMHIK) which will then roll the boat making the chine catch on the lock wall and the gunwale against the gunwale of the other boat jamming them both.  

[Mike Todd]

54 minutes ago, Col_T said:

Looks about right to me, and that lock was a known pinch-point when we were on the K&A (2015-2019). Indeed, we were once held up for a couple of hours when 2 hire boats got themselves wedged.

iirc the pinch point is on exiting the lock below - the notice instructs to leave one at a time.