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winding holes - not big enough!!


purplehaze

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Last year we attempted to turn our 69ft boat at Kiddiminster, clearly shown on the map as a winding hole, in reality not able to take a boat of our size, luckily we were able to turn just after the next lock (no winding hole shown but plenty wide enough plus deep enough to safely turn) otherwise we faced going all the way to Stourport not that far but we didn't want to go all that way just to turn round.

 

Then in September we went past Wenbury, we had hoped to do a quick turn in the boatyard but 1 most boatyards don't like you to do this and 2 a boat was in taking on fuel so we decided not to have a go. On the map it showed a winding hole just after bridge 22, well we tried to turn and failed, nearly turned into a bit of a nightmare as at one point we were a bit stuck!! Luckily further on there was a newish marina, not on the map, and we turned there with no problems.

 

My gripe is this why aren't all winding holes big enough for the largest boats ie the 70 footers? To show places where you can turn your boat and you can't is a real issue, especially if places are few and far between, surely BW must ensure that these are dredged properly?

 

Your thoughts :o

Julie

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Hi Julie

 

Can't comment overall on why all winding holes are not long enough for all boats.

However if you go into the British Waterways site, Waterscape at:

 

http://www.waterscape.com/

 

you can print out a PDF guide for each canal which includes winding holes. These show winding holes as:

 

1. Winding hole (length specified) or

 

2. Winding hole (full length). Slightly different version of the same symbol.

 

If you look at the PDF guide for the Staff & Worcester and go to Kidderminster you will see that

it shows "Max 50 ft" As you say, not a lot of use for a 70ft boat!

 

I would suggest that in the future (when you can) that you print out all the canal PDF's you need and then use a highlighter to mark all the full length winding holes. Good quick visual guide. :o

 

Stewey

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If you look at the PDF guide for the Staff & Worcester and go to Kidderminster you will see that

it shows "Max 50 ft" As you say, not a lot of use for a 70ft boat!

It's a good thing I didn't look at that before I winded "Keeping Up" there in 2005, just a little way north of Tesco's. I don't remember having any problems

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....we had hoped to do a quick turn in the boatyard but 1 most boatyards don't like you to do this ....

This is true, however the boat yard near my mooring does not mind if I put the bows gently into the entrance and pull the boat round on a rope.

 

Aparently their objection is not that you are occupying thier space, but that all the propeller stirring causes the silt to bulld up in the entrance, and they have to continually clear it.

 

When I turn up to wind now, I get an immediate thumbs up from the owner, before I even ask.

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This is true, however the boat yard near my mooring does not mind if I put the bows gently into the entrance and pull the boat round on a rope.

 

Aparently their objection is not that you are occupying thier space, but that all the propeller stirring causes the silt to bulld up in the entrance, and they have to continually clear it.

 

When I turn up to wind now, I get an immediate thumbs up from the owner, before I even ask.

 

Thats the same reason i pole the pair round if i need to wind the boats at someones entrance...(i've retyped that five times and still recon it could get an oo errr missus)

 

One thing that has actually improved with all the long leisure boaters about is the depth of the winding holes. Remember that in working days the boats would have been winded empty and then loaded, worked to destination, unloaded and then winded for return if there was no back load.

 

Most winding holes still aren't deep enough for our 26" draft at the bow though, we've learnt not to trust the maps too.

 

 

 

 

Simon.

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Hi Julie

 

Can't comment overall on why all winding holes are not long enough for all boats.

However if you go into the British Waterways site, Waterscape at:

 

http://www.waterscape.com/

 

you can print out a PDF guide for each canal which includes winding holes. These show winding holes as:

 

1. Winding hole (length specified) or

 

2. Winding hole (full length). Slightly different version of the same symbol.

 

If you look at the PDF guide for the Staff & Worcester and go to Kidderminster you will see that

it shows "Max 50 ft" As you say, not a lot of use for a 70ft boat!

 

I would suggest that in the future (when you can) that you print out all the canal PDF's you need and then use a highlighter to mark all the full length winding holes. Good quick visual guide. :o

 

Stewey

 

Thanks Stewey

I will have a look ;)

Julie

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It may be of interest that Google earth has a 'measuring tool'. Locate your proposed winding hole the day before you need to turn and measure it. Can also be used to 'recce' alternatives and is fun to use, you may be able to 'pin down' your boat if you can remember where you were on the date of the photo. :o

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I would have thought that that would be a very important part of there maintenance program. :o

 

The winding hole in Leamington was very badly overgrown this summer (perhaps it always is?). There are huge bushes now growing into the winding hole, so not only can you not see the winding hole when approaching from the town end, but to use it you have pass the bow 5ft into the bushes to emerge through them to the other side where the pointy bit of the winding hole is. It means taking everything off the roof for the first 15ft of boat, otherwise the bushes scrape it off for you.

 

Definitely a BW maintenance thing...

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The winding hole in Leamington was very badly overgrown this summer (perhaps it always is?). There are huge bushes now growing into the winding hole, so not only can you not see the winding hole when approaching from the town end, but to use it you have pass the bow 5ft into the bushes to emerge through them to the other side where the pointy bit of the winding hole is. It means taking everything off the roof for the first 15ft of boat, otherwise the bushes scrape it off for you.

 

Definitely a BW maintenance thing...

 

Sounds like the first ever winding hole I had to use on the Iver - so much reed growth at both ends I had, my inexperience not-withstanding, one hell of a fun time trying to turn her round there.

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It may be of interest that Google earth has a 'measuring tool'. Locate your proposed winding hole the day before you need to turn and measure it. Can also be used to 'recce' alternatives and is fun to use, you may be able to 'pin down' your boat if you can remember where you were on the date of the photo. ;)

 

 

:o How do you find out what the date of the photo is?

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There used to be a winding hole on the Coventry Canal that was unusable during the swan nesting season. The pair made their nest in the peak of the WH and the Cob used to patrol across the mouth of it. Woe betide any boater who even passed the place too close in the Cob's opinon. A fine display of agressive behaviour often resulted in a wetting from the bird's wings at least.

It was all quite intimidating.

 

Tony

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In many cases the problem of winding holes not being big enough for todays boats has been caused by what has historically happened to the locality . For example the canal builders would not have thought it necessary to put in a full length winding hole where there was an entrance to a basin involved or nearby.

 

At Kidderminster there was a side basin just below the church which has been filled in and made into a park , there were two more basins just below Kidderminster Lock for the carpet factories (the side bridges are still there but blocked in) and there was a coal/railway basin which is now a small marina not far below the new Tesco. The boatmen would have used any of these to turn a full length craft.

 

Its unfortunate that when any development takes place canalside little regard is taken of what use the features that are removed have had on the operation of the canal in the past .

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You can get a 58ft'er round in the one in the middle of middlewich, but not very bloody easily, for a 7ft winding hole.

- That said, i think thats about the only one ive had any real issues with. Although we do often do loops, or wind at junctions.

 

 

Daniel

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Hi Julie

 

Can't comment overall on why all winding holes are not long enough for all boats.

However if you go into the British Waterways site, Waterscape at:

 

http://www.waterscape.com/

 

you can print out a PDF guide for each canal which includes winding holes. These show winding holes as:

 

1. Winding hole (length specified) or

 

2. Winding hole (full length). Slightly different version of the same symbol.

 

If you look at the PDF guide for the Staff & Worcester and go to Kidderminster you will see that

it shows "Max 50 ft" As you say, not a lot of use for a 70ft boat!

 

I would suggest that in the future (when you can) that you print out all the canal PDF's you need and then use a highlighter to mark all the full length winding holes. Good quick visual guide. ;)

 

Stewey

 

Stewey

I have a look and surprise surprise the winding holes along this stretch (apart from Kidderminster) show no length restrictions! Which as already said we know is not true, I did get the one where we got stuck wrong it was actually by bridge 10 which on the waterscape site clearly shows as a full length winding hole so I am afraid we cannot trust this info either. :o

 

Which for all of us with big boats is a proverbile pain in the ****

 

Julie

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I got Ripple round at Tesco in Kidderminster: she's 62 feet. I didn't notice it being tight but obviously an extra 8 feet is too much!

 

For anyone foolish enough to take a boat longer than 57 feet through the Huddersfield Narrow Canal (Yes, I did) I turned Ripple about a mile down the broad canal from Apsley Basin at the incinerator. It's beyond the modern Huddersfield Road Bridge and turning was never in doubt. I think you'd get a seventy footer (there looked to be eight feet left over) round there but it would be tight, 62 feet was a doddle though.

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Julie

I am sorry that the info. shown on the Boating Guide was not accurate enough for you. I can well understand your annoyance and I imagine that this problem will be the same for all owners of full length narrowboats.

 

I note on the Boaters' Guides page on the Waterscape site that it asks:

 

"As always, we would like to hear your comments and corrections on the information contained within."

I would suggest you send your comments on the problem winding holes accordingly. The address to send comments is shown on the Boaters' Guides page as:

 

boatersguide@britishwaterways.co.uk.

 

It would be really helpful therefore if boaters who have had this problem (and anyone else, of course) check whether or not the information is shown correctly on the Boaters Guide and, if not, advise BW accordingly. Hopefully then the information will be corrected for all future boaters.

 

Julie. in the meantime it might be best for you to ask for advice on this forum as to where you might have problems turning a full length narrowboat before your next canal cruise. Not ideal for you but a lot better than facing an unexpected and exasperating problem. You can be pretty sure that one of the experts on this forum will know of any problem places you might come across and possibly suggest alternatives for you to consider. :o

 

Best wishes

Stewey

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I've also found several where instead of clearing or dreging it, BW have simply posted an arbitrarily shortened length limit on what was previously a 70 foot winding hole.

 

There have been a couple where they piled the bank opposite (good) but included mooring rings (bad) so of course people moor there - after complaints they just reduced the official size to 63 foot.

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Julie

I am sorry that the info. shown on the Boating Guide was not accurate enough for you. I can well understand your annoyance and I imagine that this problem will be the same for all owners of full length narrowboats.

 

I note on the Boaters' Guides page on the Waterscape site that it asks:

 

"As always, we would like to hear your comments and corrections on the information contained within."

I would suggest you send your comments on the problem winding holes accordingly. The address to send comments is shown on the Boaters' Guides page as:

 

boatersguide@britishwaterways.co.uk.

 

It would be really helpful therefore if boaters who have had this problem (and anyone else, of course) check whether or not the information is shown correctly on the Boaters Guide and, if not, advise BW accordingly. Hopefully then the information will be corrected for all future boaters.

 

Julie. in the meantime it might be best for you to ask for advice on this forum as to where you might have problems turning a full length narrowboat before your next canal cruise. Not ideal for you but a lot better than facing an unexpected and exasperating problem. You can be pretty sure that one of the experts on this forum will know of any problem places you might come across and possibly suggest alternatives for you to consider. :o

 

Best wishes

Stewey

Stewey

 

I will leave comments on the web site.

 

Good idea to ask other forum users but we usually are fine this time we were turning at new places, the last time we were at Kiddiminster we did want to go to Stouport, especially when we do rings, no turning round!! It was just that it to happen twice in one year was a bit much for us, and the second one is def BWs fault as the bank was very overgrown and lots of silt etc.

 

Julie

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