Quest for a boat: Black Prince 48 Cruiser

[rmo]

On my quest for my next boat, here's one I recently dismissed:

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/black-prince-47-cruiser-stern-for-sale/800590

 

On the face of it, it looks reasonable. Many ex-Black Prince boats suffer from the wrath of DIY bodge jobs. This is a tidy example although the photos look like they were taken in 2005.

 

I'd rather deal with a broker/escrow than a private seller directly, just for the extra peace of mind. The seller wasn't particularly helpful or engaging when I reached out to enquire but I keep coming back to it.  - I guess, it doesn't seem too bad for the money but it has been on sale a while, at least 2-3 months.

 

Thoughts?

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, rmo said:

I'd rather deal with a broker/escrow than a private seller directly, just for the extra peace of mind

 

What 'peace of mind' do you think buying from a broker gives you ?

 

Answer - non !

 

You only have to look at the history of brokers, selling boats twice, selling 'wrecks that sink on the way home' and many other jubious practices.

You have absolutely no guarantees about any boat you buy from a broker - it is as likely to be stolen, a cut-and-shut etc as any boat for sale privately.

 

Just one example of one local to me :

 

Jailed boat salesman cheated customers out of half a million pounds - Nottinghamshire Live

 

It traded legally but ran into trouble in 2013 when it risked being wound up.

"Mr Shakespeare's initial response was to legitimately take out a loan which totalled £126,000, secured against assets. However that sum did not suffice so he turned to dishonesty.

"He secured a further loan for £140,000 from a separate company, using as security boats he did not own. They had simply been entrusted to his yard to be sold by him.

"When that amount didn't suffice, he turned to the straightforward theft of selling the boats and keeping the proceeds to himself," said Mr Widoger. Some of the cash was transferred to another firm.

One victim was pensioner Terence Emmerson, who arranged for the company to build a houseboat and later asked for it to be sold for £72,000. It was sold for £10,000 less than that.

"He never paid the money but sent him a cheque for £30,000 which bounced," said Mr Wigoder.

Michael Sanderson, 78, built a 58ft narrow boat named Speedwell and later arranged for the firm to sell it. The boat was sold for £43,000 but the cash was never handed over.

Edited September 7, 2025 by Alan de Enfield

[rmo]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

What 'peace of mind' do you think buying from a broker gives you ?

 

Answer - non !

 

You only have to look at the history of brokers, selling boats twice, selling 'wrecks that sink on the way home' and many other jubious practices.

You have absolutely no guarantees about any boat you buy from a broker - it is as likely to be stolen, a cut-and-shut etc as any boat for sale privately.

 

I see it differently. For me, the peace of mind comes from the transactional security - not necessarily the boat itself. Transferring a substantial sum privately, especially in cash or without formal safeguards such as an audit trail, introduces more in the way of risk. A broker or escrow service provides a structured process with documented records, a more secure fund handling process, and a clear audit trail. It’s not bulletproof, of course - but it’s an extra layer of protection, at least in this regard if nothing else. It's a matter of preference. 

[jonathanA]

on the face of it it looks quite tidy.  Have you been to see it ? being ex-hire i guess it will have a a lot of hours on the engine and there is no mention of the hours on the ad (that i could see).

 

if its been on sale for a while then either the seller is a pillock and keeps putting people off/its nothing like the pictures and/or the price is wrong.

 

if you have been researching the market and you think its what you want and the price is not completely stupid then i'd be going to look at it, the seller might be more helpful if you appear serious i.e want to see it/take it out.  Also worth trying to find out a bit about the seller , why is he selling it - has he a time pressure or as sales folks would say a 'compelling event', like he needs the money to buy a house or another boat.  Will he have to pay for another licence/12 months mooring soon which might make him amenable to a cheeky offer. 

 

I agree with Alan DE these days it should be a simple matter to transfer the money via online banking and the seller hand over the keys pretty much instantly.  bit of diligence to confirm seller owns/and you have his details etc.  not hard or shouldn't be. 

[mrsmelly]

How long have you been looking for this perfect boat? Remember, you will never get that time back and you will be dead very soon.

[jonathanA]

5 minutes ago, rmo said:

 

I see it differently. For me, the peace of mind comes from the transactional security - not necessarily the boat itself. Transferring a substantial sum privately, especially in cash or without formal safeguards such as an audit trail, introduces more in the way of risk. A broker or escrow service provides a structured process with documented records, a more secure fund handling process, and a clear audit trail. It’s not bulletproof, of course - but it’s an extra layer of protection, at least in this regard if nothing else. It's a matter of preference. 

I don't see what can be simpler/ safer then transfering the funds via internet banking in the presence of the vendor to the details hes given and the bank will have validated (at least mine does)

 

of course if he doesnt want to do that then the alarm bells would ring to me.... its common practice these days i've bought loads of expensive plant/kit  in exactly that way, turn up, inspect the goods, pay the agreed price or negotiate if not as stated, transfer the money, wait for them to receive, load up and leave... 

Edited September 7, 2025 by jonathanA
add a bit

[rmo]

13 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

I don't see what can be simpler/ safer then transfering the funds via internet banking in the presence of the vendor to the details hes given and the bank will have validated (at least mine does)

 

I really can't go into specifics unfortunately, but I’m not in a position to make large private transactions like that - whether via BACS, CHAPS or in cash. For me, it’s important that any significant transfer is handled through a secure, traceable process with proper documentation, invoice etc. That’s why I lean toward escrow or brokered arrangements - not because they’re flawless, but because they offer an extra layer of traceability/accountability. A few years ago, it would not be such an issue for me. Honestly it's more personal/circumstantial and the specifics of which I can't post in the public domain.

[matty40s]

The Black Prince has several design faults, any of which could lead to expensive repairs being necessary unless you check these have been maintained well from day 1.

 

The rear of the engine bay where the weed hatch sits, This has been designed to allow water to escape should hirers not refit the weed hatch correctly....there will be several holes(usually triangular) in the box section surrounding the rudder stock. Not only does this allow water to escape, they also let water in every time you turn the tiller or reverse is selected. This area is VERY prone to corrosion if not looked after....which during its hire period...it never is.

The channel that drains the down step to the rear cabin is also a major corrosion risk area...often blocked up, almost impossible to derust effectively due to its narrow opening and lack of access under rear deck.

Gas lockers are built with a metal plate (with 2 gas bottle diameter holes)3/4 of the way up its interior...allowing little access to the bottom of the locker for maintenance

The rubber front fender hides a box channel...again, impossible to access without completely removing fender..so never gets blacked.

 

The interiors are constructed from laminated MDF and chipboard...easily damaged by water.

The pumpout tanks are usually integral( built into the shell) and impossible to access without cutting a hole in the top. The larger BP with 2 loos have a double tank..2 pumpout points...but the tanks are connected as the separating plate only comes 3/4 of the way up the tank. If you decommision a loo, the half of the tank furthest away from that loo is the one it emptied into!

 

 

[b00ke23]

59 minutes ago, rmo said:

The seller wasn't particularly helpful or engaging when I reached out to enquire but I keep coming back to it.

 

It always amazes me that people like this choose to sell privately. Selling does require a certain level of charisma and people skills.....they should have used a broker especially as they are also dismal at producing Apollo duck adverts....poor description, mix of current and historic photos, and full of errors and omissions - No mention of gearbox type, inverter, no photo of engine hole, and 1059 gallon holding tank!?? Also no stove. 

 

Not too bad for the money but I don't blame you for walking away. 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, rmo said:

I really can't go into specifics unfortunately, but I’m not in a position to make large private transactions like that - whether via BACS, CHAPS or in cash. 

If you can't make a direct bank transfer payment in one or two chunks, I would have thought any broker would be reluctant to deal with you.

[rmo]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

If you can't make a direct bank transfer payment in one or two chunks, I would have thought any broker would be reluctant to deal with you.

 

I think there’s been a bit of a misunderstanding - I actually do prefer direct bank transfer, ideally in one or two chunks. My earlier comment was about the importance of escrow and traceability, which stems from considerations that are personal and unrelated to boating. It’s not about avoiding straightforward payment methods at all.

 

2 hours ago, matty40s said:

The Black Prince has several design faults, any of which could lead to expensive repairs being necessary unless you check these have been maintained well from day 1.

 

The rear of the engine bay where the weed hatch sits, This has been designed to allow water to escape should hirers not refit the weed hatch correctly....there will be several holes(usually triangular) in the box section surrounding the rudder stock. Not only does this allow water to escape, they also let water in every time you turn the tiller or reverse is selected. This area is VERY prone to corrosion if not looked after....which during its hire period...it never is.

The channel that drains the down step to the rear cabin is also a major corrosion risk area...often blocked up, almost impossible to derust effectively due to its narrow opening and lack of access under rear deck.

Gas lockers are built with a metal plate (with 2 gas bottle diameter holes)3/4 of the way up its interior...allowing little access to the bottom of the locker for maintenance

The rubber front fender hides a box channel...again, impossible to access without completely removing fender..so never gets blacked.

 

The interiors are constructed from laminated MDF and chipboard...easily damaged by water.

The pumpout tanks are usually integral( built into the shell) and impossible to access without cutting a hole in the top. The larger BP with 2 loos have a double tank..2 pumpout points...but the tanks are connected as the separating plate only comes 3/4 of the way up the tank. If you decommision a loo, the half of the tank furthest away from that loo is the one it emptied into!

 

 

 

Thank you

[Naughty Cal]

This was one of the Black Prince narrowboats that was for hire from Ely.

 

Is it for sale from Bridge Boatyard or a private seller?

[rmo]

3 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

This was one of the Black Prince narrowboats that was for hire from Ely.

 

Is it for sale from Bridge Boatyard or a private seller?

I wasn't sure either at first but no, the seller confirmed it to be a private sale.

Edited September 7, 2025 by rmo
grammar