2 hours ago, Steve Bassplayer said:

Yes, we all know the Oxford is very low, as are the reservoirs. I'm not disputing that.

 

As regards the Ashby/Coventry pound, the water levels have been fine all of the time the Atherstone flight was open up to this week when it was closed. 

 

 

 

 

But its been getting topped up from Hillmorton which has now closed 

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But its been getting topped up from Hillmorton which has now closed 

Yes, it will have been topped up whilst boats were passing through Hillmorton, but equally water would have been lost down the Atherstone flight. The levels on the Ashby/Coventry pound have remained good throughout and actually seem to be getting higher. All this despite a drought which in theory would affect the Oxford as much as the Coventry.

 

Perhaps the difference is the state of the infrastructure? Not so much the weather? The reservoirs will obviously empty quicker if the water is draining through failing gates and breaches 

 

I'm just suggesting that flights (e.g Atherstone) should only be closed off when water levels actually become a problem for navigation, not just to align with the dates of other closures.

 

We've seen lower levels over past summers, but it never resulted in so many flights being locked down like this, especially flights on pounds which don't actually have a problem....yet...

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Steve Bassplayer said:

  

 

We've seen lower levels over past summers, but it never resulted in so many flights being locked down like this, especially flights on pounds which don't actually have a problem....yet...

 

 

 

So you would rather see the Ashby and the Coventry become a no go area before they stop boats going down the Atherstone flight. At least now you can boat from Hillmorton to Coventry, on to the top of Atherstone and the full length of the Ashby. let the level drop 6" and most of that comes to a standstill and you wont even get to the Atherstone locks. There have probably been moor boats transiting Hillmorton each day than Atherstone which would account for the good levels you are enjoying. It will be interesting to see if that level is maintained with no feed coming in 

Edited August 28, 20251 yr by ditchcrawler
Spilling

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

So you would rather see the Ashby and the Coventry become a no go area before they stop boats going down the Atherstone flight. At least now you can boat from Hillmorton to Coventry, on to the top of Atherstone and the full length of the Ashby. let the level drop 6" and most of that comes to a standstill and you wont even get to the Atherstone locks. There have probably been moor boats transiting Hillmorton each day than Atherstone which would account for the good levels you are enjoying. It will be interesting to see if that level is maintained with no feed coming in 

Yes, shut the Atherstone flight when water levels start to make navigation a problem. Not when levels are actually going up.

 

I'd rather see excess water being used to let boats navigate through Atherstone than it being lost over spillways. Isn't this how canals are supposed to work? Not locking flights because we 'might' not get any rain. 

The system's a bit like a big garden water feature ... fine whilst the water's being pumped around, but stop the pumping and it swiftly stagnates and dries up.

 

Okay, a massive exaggeration. 

 

But in thirty years of boating, I've not encountered this level of restrictions due to low water, and I'm not convinced anyone can honestly identify what happens now, and where restrictions or closures will be required next.

 

I think it may prove to be a massively optimistic view that pounds will simply hold water when locks are closed off.

 

We spent a week in the Avon sump pound at Radford Semele, and the levels there dropped 4 to 6 inches overnight two days after the locks closed.

 

Who knows where levels may settle.

 

Rog

 

 

Edited August 28, 20251 yr by dogless

2 minutes ago, dogless said:

The system's a bit like a big garden water feature ... fine whilst the water's being pumped around, but stop the pumping and it swiftly stagnates and dries up.

 

Okay, a massive exaggeration. 

 

But in thirty years of boating, I've not encountered this level of restrictions due to low water, and I'm not convinced anyone can honestly identify what happens now, and where restrictions or closures will be required next.

 

I think it may prove to be a massively optimistic view that pounds will simply hold water when locks are closed off.

 

We spent a week in the Avon sump pound at Radford Semele, and the levels there dropped 4 to 6 inches overnight two days after the locks closed.

 

Who knows where levels may settle.

 

Rog

 

 

 

C&RT need more money and resources to deal with the increasing number of failures in the infrastructure, including back pumps. Then we'll have a better idea as to what extent a drought has on canal water levels. 

 

We can't do anything about the weather  but leaks can be fixed.

 

 

More money is needed unarguably, but it needs to be spent wisely too.

 

I make my monthly donation over and above paying my dues ... hopefully so does everyone else here (that are lucky enough be able to afford to).

 

But that's a bit like saying when asked for directions, 'well you don't want to start from here'.

 

Rog

Perhaps if C&RT blamed it on the failing infrastructure instead of blaming the weather, they might get more funding from donations and the government/tax payer? 

 

Then again, I think our government have  bigger things to worry about at the moment.

1 hour ago, Steve Bassplayer said:

Yes, shut the Atherstone flight when water levels start to make navigation a problem. Not when levels are actually going up.

 

I'd rather see excess water being used to let boats navigate through Atherstone than it being lost over spillways. Isn't this how canals are supposed to work? Not locking flights because we 'might' not get any rain. 

As long as water is coming down Hillmorton , there will be enough water to keep Atherstone Locks open. With Hillmorton closed and Atherstone open the level would drop quite quickly. Seems reasonable to me to close both flights at the same time. If the Coventry pound starts this next period full, then there is a reasonable chance that it will remain navigable over the next few weeks even though the level will drop due to leakage and evaporation.

7 hours ago, David Mack said:

As long as water is coming down Hillmorton , there will be enough water to keep Atherstone Locks open. With Hillmorton closed and Atherstone open the level would drop quite quickly. Seems reasonable to me to close both flights at the same time. If the Coventry pound starts this next period full, then there is a reasonable chance that it will remain navigable over the next few weeks even though the level will drop due to leakage and evaporation.

...but as has been mentioned on another thread, the Ashby/Coventry pound has other feeders. It's speculation that the pound would fall by 6 inches as previously suggested. 

 

Anyway, I guess C&RT are the experts.

8 hours ago, Steve Bassplayer said:

Perhaps if C&RT blamed it on the failing infrastructure instead of blaming the weather, they might get more funding from donations and the government/tax payer? 

 

Then again, I think our government have  bigger things to worry about at the moment.

I wonder if CRT is  being canny and will try to claim more funding on the back of climate change. I can’t really think of another reason to shut some of the locks that have been closed due to drought (eg Aston, Ashton, Brades or Ryders Green and possibly Wolverhampton ) From this CRT can say oh gosh we’ve had to close SO many locks this year we need more funding to maintain a beneficial environment. 
 

I’ve noticed any damage to canals after weather events is attributed by CRT to climate change so it becomes a hook to try and get more funding.
 

There are often funds to bid for moneys eg towpath repairs. There is  a Green Climate fund around already, no idea if CrT can apply

 

https://www.greenclimate.fund/about

 

 

1 hour ago, Steve Bassplayer said:

...but as has been mentioned on another thread, the Ashby/Coventry pound has other feeders. It's speculation that the pound would fall by 6 inches as previously suggested. 

 

Anyway, I guess C&RT are the experts.

Yes, I think they probably are the experts. They most likely know the current flow rates of the feeders, and also the expected rate of loss from leakage and evaporation. Using that data, they probably have a reasonably good idea of how water levels in the pound will cope with and without the Atherstone flight open.

 

Do you have any of that data? If not, I respectfully suggest that it's your beliefs that are based on speculation.

 

If you want to prove the CRT is wrong, do the analysis. To get you started, work on about 3mm per day for evaporation; you can estimate the flow rate of each feeder by visiting it and measuring the speed and cross-sectional area. Post photos of the feeders here and show us your working. To give you a target, I reckon that pound is losing somewhere in the order of 3 million litres per day to evaporation. If you can show the feeders are delivering substantially more than that, you can work out how many lock operations the surplus might facilitate.

12 hours ago, Steve Bassplayer said:

Yes, it will have been topped up whilst boats were passing through Hillmorton, but equally water would have been lost down the Atherstone flight. The levels on the Ashby/Coventry pound have remained good throughout and actually seem to be getting higher. All this despite a drought which in theory would affect the Oxford as much as the Coventry.

 

Perhaps the difference is the state of the infrastructure? Not so much the weather? The reservoirs will obviously empty quicker if the water is draining through failing gates and breaches 

 

I'm just suggesting that flights (e.g Atherstone) should only be closed off when water levels actually become a problem for navigation, not just to align with the dates of other closures.

 

We've seen lower levels over past summers, but it never resulted in so many flights being locked down like this, especially flights on pounds which don't actually have a problem....yet...

 

 

 

 

The Atherstone to Glascote pound is now down nearly a foot.

 

My boat's stern is over 3 feet out from the bank and my neighbours boat is hard aground.

CRT have absolutely zero chance of getting more money from the government in fact I think there’s a real danger of getting funding cut. Canals just aren’t on the nations radar right now. There’s been virtually no media coverage of the current crisis on the canals which kind of underlines the point.
 

Like it or not, we are a small minority group in the grand scheme of things. The average person has plenty of things to worry about right now and water levels in canals ain’t one of them!

Edited August 29, 20251 yr by Llamedos

18 minutes ago, Llamedos said:

There’s been virtually no media coverage of the current crisis on the canals which kind of underlines the point.

 

There was an article on World At One on the BBC R4 the other day. 

 

It wasn't very enlightening, just an outline of the fact that canals were being closed and a brief interview with a CRT bod who waffled on a bit. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, Llamedos said:

CRT have absolutely zero chance of getting more money from the government in fact I think there’s a real danger of getting funding cut. Canals just aren’t on the nations radar right now. There’s been virtually no media coverage of the current crisis on the canals which kind of underlines the point.
 

Like it or not, we are a small minority group in the grand scheme of things. The average person has plenty of things to worry about right now and water levels in canals ain’t one of them!

 

The low water levels have been in BBC West Midlands news a couple of times, as has the Tardebigge reopening but it has not made national news yet.

There are a number of articles on the BBC news website, you'll need to go back four or five pages to see all of them...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=canals&d=NEWS_PS

Edited August 29, 20251 yr by Dorlan

 

30 minutes ago, Llamedos said:

CRT have absolutely zero chance of getting more money from the government in fact I think there’s a real danger of getting funding cut.

 

True. While canals remain a relatively exclusive environment with a fairly high barrier to access the funding will not come. 

 

If they can be opened up as public amenity there may be some money but this is a hard thing to do and would significantly change the dynamics. 

 

It may be the only way to stop dereliction. Make it into a theme park, improve access to the water for everyone and attract more private business investment..

 

 

 

 

It is all rather symbolic of the general decline of the United Kingdom. This is not the only area where problems are turning up. It is true to say that for the  99% of people who do not use the canal water surface there are more important things to spend taxpayers money on. 

We need to wake up to the fact that boating is ridiculously cheap - I seem to to recall the late Cyril Boucher did pleasure trips paying tolls and had to pay something like £200 just to get from Hawkesbury to Oxford

3 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 

 

There are often funds to bid for moneys eg towpath repairs. There is  a Green Climate fund around already, no idea if CrT can apply

 

https://www.greenclimate.fund/about

 

 

With the number of lawyers that they employ, I would be disappointed if no one has discovered their eligibilty for such funding. Maybe judicious pruning of these employees and similar 'hangers on' would enable more of the infrastructure to be repaired.

9 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

We need to wake up to the fact that boating is ridiculously cheap - I seem to to recall the late Cyril Boucher did pleasure trips paying tolls and had to pay something like £200 just to get from Hawkesbury to Oxford

 

Indeed yet there are people protesting about paying £3 a day more... 

Just now, magnetman said:

 

Indeed yet there are people protesting about paying £3 a day more... 

FTFY.

1 hour ago, Wafi said:

Yes, I think they probably are the experts. They most likely know the current flow rates of the feeders, and also the expected rate of loss from leakage and evaporation. Using that data, they probably have a reasonably good idea of how water levels in the pound will cope with and without the Atherstone flight open.

 

Do you have any of that data? If not, I respectfully suggest that it's your beliefs that are based on speculation.

 

If you want to prove the CRT is wrong, do the analysis. To get you started, work on about 3mm per day for evaporation; you can estimate the flow rate of each feeder by visiting it and measuring the speed and cross-sectional area. Post photos of the feeders here and show us your working. To give you a target, I reckon that pound is losing somewhere in the order of 3 million litres per day to evaporation. If you can show the feeders are delivering substantially more than that, you can work out how many lock operations the surplus might facilitate.

 

I've no idea how much water the other feeders are bringing in, I'm just pointing out that Hillmorton isn't the only feeder and the water levels have been good on the Ashby/Coventry pound throughout the drought, while other pounds are suffering badly. 

 

You could find the data and post the pictures if you like. 

 

 

Might the closures be partly for publicity. If it was found that there are significant problems in certain areas this could be used as a reason for request to declassify certain waterways and withdraw maintenance due to funding not being adequate. 

 

It seems a real possibility.

 

People in the know will have a medium term view and it does seem real that without more funding some canals are going to go derelict. This has happened before of course. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Steve Bassplayer said:

 

I've no idea how much water the other feeders are bringing in, I'm just pointing out that Hillmorton isn't the only feeder and the water levels have been good on the Ashby/Coventry pound throughout the drought, while other pounds are suffering badly. 

 

You could find the data and post the pictures if you like. 

 

 

The feeder for the pound is strange, it was very low in July 2022, not sure if there was an explanation, some rumours about building works affected Griff Brook. Some boats grounded on the Ashby.
 

Last year it was fine, same in late 23, and late April this year.
 

Worth noting that Atherstone and Glascote locks were closed in 1976.