Customer Service facilities - C&RT to close all toilets and showers.

[Ian Mac]

As you may have seen from the latest boaters update C&RT are giving away their CSF blocks to interested parties as part of their cost reduction. 

 

I still believe it is a really bad move by C&RT -  closing all the toilet and shower facilities on the system. Their justification are two fold.

1) when they announced they were going to do it very few complained.  Literally less than 10

2) it is costing them several million a year to maintain them. 

This said I am not sure about washing machines, but again these could be charged for quite easily now.
The plan is purely to provide pumpouts and elsan disposals which will all be a new outdoor type.

 

The pumpout are now card chargeable. I am not sure why this technology can not be used for the showers and come to that the toilets. 
I want everybody to complain to Matthew Simmons  and to the regional enquiries.  I for one think this is a very retro grade step by the trust. They are planning on knocking down all the isolated Customer facilities blocks to remove the cost of maintenance.  I am not sure why the damage inflicted to elsan disposal points in the past, which is why they were moved into building in the first place will not start again, short memory syndrome again!

 

So please everyone please complain, if you think I'm right. The more of you the better. Log it on this chat when you have done it, so I have a clue what the numbers are and your feelings. I am sure most boaters will regret the loss of these facilities in the long run. Maybe I have it all wrong and now nearly everyone has a pumpout with a shower on their boat I have got it wrong.

 

-- 

Ian Mac

[MtB]

Frankly, I was always staggered CRT have shower blocks etc and never quite understood why.  This is not the 1970's.

 

Personally Elsan points and water taps are all I need on the network. I think it's the same for most boaters nowadays plus pump-outs for those who have not seen the light.

 

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

It makes sense to get rid of these. 

 

Knock them down and put in coffee and tea kiosks. Much better use of the land, fresh water and electric supply. 

 

Boats do have washing facilities aboard and lavatories. 

 

Times have changed. Give people services such as lavatories and showers and problems will turn up. 

 

It's not worth it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why would anyone think the licence fee for using canals would include being able to access showers and lavatories in a building beside the canal? 

 

It makes no sense at all. 

 

I know it could be done electronically these days but it is just not worth spending the money on it. 

 

Does anyone genuinely have a Boat which they use for more than a few days at a time which does not have a lavatory or a shower on it ? 

 

Really ?? 

 

Providing these services is encouraging people to have inadequate dwellings which is the last thing the CRT should be doing. 

 

 

 

FFS lock gate balance beams are falling apart surely that is where the money should be going rather than providing domestic services. 

 

WTF. Oh well onwards and upwards as always. 

 

RSW. Refuse. Sewage. Water. 

 

This is what was on all the maps. Rubbish bin, Elsan hopper. Water tap. Job done. 

 

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Ian Mac said:

2) it is costing them several million a year to maintain them. 

 

Honestly as MM says, these several £m would be far better spent fixing rotting balance beams. 

 

 

 

[hoopdriver]

Yes there are better uses of the funds. The showers are not very nice, and neither are the toilets. And as has been noted - nearly all boats that people spend much time in have toilets and showers. 

[Chris T]

The toilets will probably be missed more by walkers than boaters as many have keys. As do motorhomes that frequently use our nearby elsan, water and rubbish disposals. 

[Naartjie AKA Duck Hatch]

I guess your opinion on this matter depends how much time you actually spend on the canals.

 

Just thought though...CaRT could use their facilities as a draw card to get walkers, cyclists and the like to join as associate members. (You join & get a key to use CaRT's loos & showers)

But that requires a bit of Innovation & foresight.

[Rob-M]

I don't think the maintenance costs would be covered by selling keys to walkers and cyclists especially as eBay has plenty of knock off copies.

 

Whilst I am a user of the showers and toilets when out on the working boats I can understand that removing the maintenance costs makes sense.

[Chris John]

Good 

Money needs to be spent wisely and cost effectively and having toilets and showers is a complete waste of money 

[George and Dragon]

8 minutes ago, Naartjie AKA Duck Hatch said:

CaRT could use their facilities as a draw card to get walkers, cyclists and the like to join as associate members. (You join & get a key to use CaRT's loos & showers)

But that requires a bit of Innovation & foresight.

 

They'd have to make all the existing keys obsolete and invest heavily in new tech.

[Tonka]

12 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

 

They'd have to make all the existing keys obsolete and invest heavily in new tech.

You just buy different locks or barrells for the locks.

Why are people obsessed with tech

[Chris John]

22 minutes ago, Naartjie AKA Duck Hatch said:

I guess your opinion on this matter depends how much time you actually spend on the canals.

 

Just thought though...CaRT could use their facilities as a draw card to get walkers, cyclists and the like to join as associate members. (You join & get a key to use CaRT's loos & showers)

But that requires a bit of Innovation & foresight.

Cyclists and walkers carrying towels and shower gel etc to have a shower when they have to carry on cycling and walking to get home hmmm…..

Just now, Tonka said:

You just buy different locks or barrells for the locks.

Why are people obsessed with tech

And then you have to issue everyone with new keys. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

6 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Honestly as MM says, these several £m would be far better spent fixing rotting balance beams. 

Rotting balance beams are nature friendly. They provide building materials foe wasps to make their nests and homes for many insect species and fungi. An eco treasure house by many locks.

I'm in agreement with most on this thread. It isn't the 1970s any more. There are better things the money could be spent on. 

[Tonka]

1 minute ago, Chris John said:

Cyclists and walkers carrying towels and shower gel etc to have a shower when they have to carry on cycling and walking to get home hmmm…..

And then you have to issue everyone with new keys. 

Sell new keys.

Stops the riff raff using them

[Chris John]

14 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Sell new keys.

Stops the riff raff using them

It’s the riff raff as you call them that are more likely to use them. Have you ever see the riff raffs key when they can’t get in somewhere. I think it’s called a crowbar 

[George and Dragon]

16 minutes ago, Tonka said:

You just buy different locks or barrells for the locks.

Why are people obsessed with tech

New barrels based on cylinder locks would soon have knockoff keys circulating just like today. 

[Alan de Enfield]

8 hours ago, Ian Mac said:

Maybe I have it all wrong and now nearly everyone has a pumpout with a shower on their boat I have got it wrong.

 

So far, the general concensus suggests you have.

[David Mack]

8 hours ago, Ian Mac said:

Maybe I have it all wrong and now nearly everyone has a pumpout with a shower on their boat I have got it wrong.

Ian, like you I do much of my boating on an unconverted boat without a shower on board. But we are very much in a minority. I was rather surprised when 20 or 30 years ago BW started building showers, as even then the number of boats without them seemed quite small, and I could never see the point. At the time BW was in a more expansionist mode (Millennium restorations etc.), but those times are past, and CRT's financial position is precipitous. And at the same time there has been a growth in vanlifers and others making use of CRT facilities without contributing to the cost of maintaining them.

There's no way the facilities could become self-supporting financially, for reasons given by others above. CRT are in the same position as any local authority that is having to close public toilets it cannot afford to maintain. This is the right decision.

[PeterF]

We have used a CSF shower once in 20 years and not because we needed to but rather that it was the first time we had come across one, it was a cold damp day, so we used it to avoid condensation in the boat and as a novelty. I will not miss such facilities.

[Momac]

9 hours ago, magnetman said:

 

Why would anyone think the licence fee for using canals would include being able to access showers and lavatories in a building beside the canal? 

 

It makes no sense at all. 

 

On the same basis why do you expect free mains water , elsan and rubbish bin facilities?

 

 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Tonka said:

Sell new keys.

Stops the riff raff using them

 

Eh? I definitely class myself as riff raff but don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to use them if I wanted. 

 

In addition to van-lifers, the long distance canoeists probably use them too. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15 by MtB
Fiddle with it

[Wafi]

Just had a look through my 2003 Nicholson. The number of BW Loos, showers and laundry facilities that existed in 2003 and either won't exist much longer or have already gone, is significantly outnumbered by the number of marinas that didn't exist in 2003 but do now. My other Nicholson editions (1983 and 1995) paint an even worse picture of the past, with fewer marinas, fewer BW facilities and entire canals missing from the map. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the "new" marinas will let you use their showers or laundry facilities for a nominal fee; most will certainly have visitors' moorings. There are better facilities available for our use than there ever have been, they're just in slightly different locations with a different payment model.

 

Which reminds me, I really must look at buying a new set of Nicholsons!

[dmr]

I have very mixed feelings about this, and once they are knocked down they are gone forever.

If I'm shopping in Todmorden and need a wee and walk to the CRT toilet. If we've done a pumpout and are stopping for a week or two I use the CRT toilet rather than putting poo into our empty tank. But, I also note that a lot of locals have a key and use the toilet, and its lovely and clean, somebody turns up frequently to clean it so that must be quite an expense.

 

CRT are making the canals pedestrian and cyclist friendly so should not be surprised to find more pressure on its facilities. The real issue is that the councils really should be putting some funding in, but that won't happen.

 

and all the dog poo bins have gone.

 

I have suggested before that the pumpous should go, boats with a pumpout should carry an SPO, and CRT should provide a suitable BSP connection directly to a suitable sewer.

[Tonka]

4 minutes ago, Wafi said:

Just had a look through my 2003 Nicholson. The number of BW Loos, showers and laundry facilities that existed in 2003 and either won't exist much longer or have already gone, is significantly outnumbered by the number of marinas that didn't exist in 2003 but do now. My other Nicholson editions (1983 and 1995) paint an even worse picture of the past, with fewer marinas, fewer BW facilities and entire canals missing from the map. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the "new" marinas will let you use their showers or laundry facilities for a nominal fee; most will certainly have visitors' moorings. There are better facilities available for our use than there ever have been, they're just in slightly different locations with a different payment model.

 

Which reminds me, I really must look at buying a new set of Nicholsons!

Does the Navigation Inn at Cosgrove still have a shower. It did in the 1960's, we used it

[magnetman]

21 minutes ago, Momac said:

On the same basis why do you expect free mains water , elsan and rubbish bin facilities?

 

Agreed. However the provision of rubbish and elsan is quite a sensible environmental protection move. 

 

I personally think the CRT should close them all and let the marinas provide the service. Concentrate the limited funding on fixing hardware required for navigation. 

 

 

 

 

 

It is a bit ridiculous that the licence payers money is used to employ BIFFA to turn around commercial bins which are often full of Boat refurbishment waste which normally one would need to pay to get rid of. 

 

A weakness and a major outlay. 

Edited August 15 by magnetman