Gardner 3LW First run

[BoaTedandDad]

Hello All, this is my first post so please be kind  

We have just bought an older boat to strip out and start again with, the draw for me was the 3LW whereas the leader of the opposition (or the wife as she likes to be called) liked the look of the boat. It has stood for at least two years in a very unloved state which we are working on. Anyway I have replaced the oil and fuel filters, all the hose's and fluids as well as given it a good clean down and visibly check for anything worryingly obvious. Two new batteries and away it went (video attached, I think)

We have owned a Ruston 2VTH and a Dorman 2DSM in previous boats so have a bit of an idea but have never owned a Gardner, so my question is how does it sound? For any of you with an ear for the 3LW is there anything obvious? Apologies its only a short video as that's all I could load up. I am changing the thermostat next as I'm not sure that's opening up, other than that any suggestions are welcome. Thank you

 

Edited thanks to Tony, as I said first go at this and I'm better with a spanner or a hand saw!

 

 

Edited August 4 by BoaTedandDad
Video was wrong media so no sound

[David Mack]

18 minutes ago, BoaTedandDad said:

so my question is how does it sound?

Extremely quiet!

[BoaTedandDad]

5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Extremely quiet!

From that, is there sound to the video???

[David Mack]

No sound when I watched it on my phone.

I see the video has gone now.

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, BoaTedandDad said:

From that, is there sound to the video???

 

No, because it is a .gif file and not a video. Convert it to .JPG. .gif offer animation, but I have never heard of .gif video with sound.

[David Mack]

If posting it here is difficult, upload it to YouTube, post the 'share' link and it will embed on the forum.

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

No, because it is a .gif file and not a video. Convert it to .JPG. .gif offer animation, but I have never heard of .gif video with sound.

There was a silent video. I assume the OP has removed it, but left a placeholder gif.

[BoaTedandDad]

7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

If posting it here is difficult, upload it to YouTube, post the 'share' link and it will embed on the forum.

There was a silent video. I assume the OP has removed it, but left a placeholder gif.

Thank you David and Tony, school boy stuff for some but not me  

[RAP]

Sounds good. However, would need to hear more when fully warmed up and also under load.

[Tony Brooks]

6 hours ago, RAP said:

Sounds good. However, would need to hear more when fully warmed up and also under load.

 

Nothing jumps out at me noise wise apart from the general "rattle" when looking into the boat, and that may go when hot. Have you checked the valve clearances?

[AKD]

16 hours ago, BoaTedandDad said:

Hello All, this is my first post so please be kind  

We have just bought an older boat to strip out and start again with, the draw for me was the 3LW whereas the leader of the opposition (or the wife as she likes to be called) liked the look of the boat. It has stood for at least two years in a very unloved state which we are working on. Anyway I have replaced the oil and fuel filters, all the hose's and fluids as well as given it a good clean down and visibly check for anything worryingly obvious. Two new batteries and away it went (video attached, I think)

We have owned a Ruston 2VTH and a Dorman 2DSM in previous boats so have a bit of an idea but have never owned a Gardner, so my question is how does it sound? For any of you with an ear for the 3LW is there anything obvious? Apologies its only a short video as that's all I could load up. I am changing the thermostat next as I'm not sure that's opening up, other than that any suggestions are welcome. Thank you

 

Edited thanks to Tony, as I said first go at this and I'm better with a spanner or a hand saw!

 

It isn't firing evenly or regularly on all three cylinders, . . that may well be down to a bit of air in the pump after changing the fuel filter.

 

Was the video clip recorded immediately after starting ?   How warm/hot to the touch did the cylinder head water outlet manifold get, . . and how warm was it when the video clip was recorded ?   A cold engine in good condition should quickly make around 27 - 28 psi oil pressure at a fast idle, . . what was the oil pressure during the run, and how quickly did it build up to that pressure after starting ?

 

As Tony Brooks has indicated, the engine does perhaps sound to be making a little too much clatter, . . the noise is, however, too loud and/or heavy for loose tappets (valve clearances), . . I think you may need to look elsewhere for the source of it, if it persists after further running, or gets any louder.  If there's nothing obvious externally - such as any slackness or excessive backlash in ancillary drives (ie. timing case end alternator drive) - it may be worthwhile checking the condition of the gearbox drive plate.

 

Edited August 5 by AKD

[bigoltubosteel]

Currently out on the boat but can record a video of ours running for you to compare it to and upload later in the week, if that's any help. We have a similarly "clacky" sound and I was told just today by a retired marine engineer that's worked with many sizes of Gardner engines that it's normal for the specific injection pump we have.

[BoaTedandDad]

11 hours ago, AKD said:

It isn't firing evenly or regularly on all three cylinders, . . that may well be down to a bit of air in the pump after changing the fuel filter.

 

Was the video clip recorded immediately after starting ?   How warm/hot to the touch did the cylinder head water outlet manifold get, . . and how warm was it when the video clip was recorded ?   A cold engine in good condition should quickly make around 27 - 28 psi oil pressure at a fast idle, . . what was the oil pressure during the run, and how quickly did it build up to that pressure after starting ?

 

As Tony Brooks has indicated, the engine does perhaps sound to be making a little too much clatter, . . the noise is, however, too loud and/or heavy for loose tappets (valve clearances), . . I think you may need to look elsewhere for the source of it, if it persists after further running, or gets any louder.  If there's nothing obvious externally - such as any slackness or excessive backlash in ancillary drives (ie. timing case end alternator drive) - it may be worthwhile checking the condition of the gearbox drive plate.

 

Thanks All, in fairness the engine was barely warm at the time of filming and this was literally its 1st run in our hands. As the afternoon went on and I built up some confidence I let it run to get temp up. My confidence was short lived as the thermostat clearly wasn't opening as the return pipe was cold whereas the temp was building in the flow pipe heading away from the pump, so I called it a day.

I've not checked the valve clearance yet but will do. Oil pressure has been a constant 43lbs which I was happy about, the gearbox gauge was reading 26 bar but I know nothing about this yet other than the copper pipe work from it isn't the best with a slight kink in it. There was some noise when in gear but haven't sourced that yet, it could be a bearing or UJ, not under load yet and wont be for a while as we're in a friends yard for the rebuild.

Really appreciate all your comments.

[Kingdom Isambard Brunel]

Doesn't sound like the 3 cylinder Gardners that I hear on the cut, very uneven firing.

[Clanky]

Sounds ok to me. But, with the engine running try locking the priming levers off on the injector pump one at a time and listen to see if the engine note changes. This may give you an indication of a mis firing cylinder.

[Tony Brooks]

As it had lain idle for a long time and if it is a misfire then I would not be surprised if carbon has fallen off a valve stem and is holding one valve slightly open. A good rev just might solve it.

[BoaTedandDad]

Thanks again for the comments, I will try what's been suggested and film it running when the temp is up a bit although I haven't had chance to change the thermostat yet. I've spent the last hour looking for my feeler gauges with no luck so that means another parcel to explain!

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, BoaTedandDad said:

Thanks again for the comments, I will try what's been suggested and film it running

 

Could you include the engine starting in the video please? Also, film it running for quite a lot longer than just the seven seconds of the first video, so we get a good long listen to what it sounds like please? Thanks! 

 

[Tony Brooks]

59 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Could you include the engine starting in the video please? Also, film it running for quite a lot longer than just the seven seconds of the first video, so we get a good long listen to what it sounds like please? Thanks! 

 

 and revving it up a bit, holding the sped, and then back to tick over.

[BoaTedandDad]

 

So, I have been working on the boat all day but first thing while I was on my own I had a look at the valve clearance before starting up and filming the attached. There was little play there and all looked pretty clean too. The video shows a cold start but my observations are, it felt lumpy today and a little knocky too, initially feeling the injector pipes no. 1 didn't pulse as strong as 2 & 3, there seemed to be a tinny rattle which I looked around but couldn't pinpoint. It also breathed/smoked a bit for the opening around the starter/flywheel casing which I'd not noticed before. On a positive note I think the thermostat opened today although I will still replace this and I am very happy with how easily it started and the oil pressure!

I will add the caveat that I have now stripped all the insulation and timber from the back end of the boat which does make it echo and reverberate somewhat. That and I feel I'm looking for problems, but I'm not as happy with it as I was when it first started up!

 

This is after about 20mins as requested with a rev up and allowing it to settle.

 

[MtB]

I'm no Gardner expert but it sounds to me as though it runs on two at tickover (or two-and-a-half) and picks up fully on three even with the slightest touch of revs.

 

Also the timing chain/gears rattle seems to go away once the revs get up above tickover. Does it had a timing chain or is it gears? 

 

 

[BoaTedandDad]

I was thinking about your comment and what was different on the engine from the first video, we are slowly stripping the boat out and I have removed the engine controls. So I'm thinking this has allowed the throttle to back off more than usual as the more I listen to it the more I agree with you that its definitely not running on all three until I touched the throttle. This doesn't cover off all of my concerns though.

[MtB]

33 minutes ago, BoaTedandDad said:

I was thinking about your comment and what was different on the engine from the first video, we are slowly stripping the boat out and I have removed the engine controls. So I'm thinking this has allowed the throttle to back off more than usual as the more I listen to it the more I agree with you that its definitely not running on all three until I touched the throttle. This doesn't cover off all of my concerns though.

 

Probably low compression on one cylinder.

 

Did you try loosening each of the injector tubes in turn while ticking over, to identify which cylinder is not firing? 

 

 

[BoaTedandDad]

I did and there was very little in it on all three pots, the only difference between them was when feeling the injector pipes while it was running number one didn't feel as strong.

 

[AKD]

On 09/08/2025 at 19:59, BoaTedandDad said:

 

So, I have been working on the boat all day but first thing while I was on my own I had a look at the valve clearance before starting up and filming the attached. There was little play there and all looked pretty clean too. The video shows a cold start but my observations are, it felt lumpy today and a little knocky too, initially feeling the injector pipes no. 1 didn't pulse as strong as 2 & 3, there seemed to be a tinny rattle which I looked around but couldn't pinpoint. It also breathed/smoked a bit for the opening around the starter/flywheel casing which I'd not noticed before. On a positive note I think the thermostat opened today although I will still replace this and I am very happy with how easily it started and the oil pressure!

I will add the caveat that I have now stripped all the insulation and timber from the back end of the boat which does make it echo and reverberate somewhat. That and I feel I'm looking for problems, but I'm not as happy with it as I was when it first started up!

 

This is after about 20mins as requested with a rev up and allowing it to settle.

 

 

These two video clips are a lot more informative and useful than the first one posted, . . and so are the additional comments you've included.  I haven't time now to write up everything that can be gleaned from them until this evening at the earliest, but I can tell you that the increased concerns you've expressed  about this engine are quite unnecessary.

 

Now it's had time to run for long enough to purge all the air out of the pump and injectors, and get some splash lubrication onto all of the valve gear, timing chain, and the associated gears and internal timing advance mechanism, the levels of mechanical noise/clatter are nothing more or less than what would normally be expected from any LW series engine.

 

The distinct heavier knocking that can be heard  on the video clips is absent on the overrun - when the governor moves the injector pump control rack to zero delivery - indicating that it is in fact a combustion/detonation 'knock' that will almost certainly be down to an injector that's dribbling and isn't atomising correctly, . . something you've already identified for yourself by means of your thumb and finger tip check on the injector pipes. 

Edited August 13 by AKD

[Mike Coombes]

On 05/08/2025 at 17:52, bigoltubosteel said:

Currently out on the boat but can record a video of ours running for you to compare it to and upload later in the week, if that's any help. We have a similarly "clacky" sound and I was told just today by a retired marine engineer that's worked with many sizes of Gardner engines that it's normal for the specific injection pump we have.

 

A neighbour had a Citroen BX19 Diesel Estate car, and loved it. He enthused another neighbour, he bought one too.

 

The first one was quiet, ran beautifully.

 

The second one was very noisy. Back and forward to Citroen under warranty, no fault found.

 

At the time I was I/C of a busy Lucas Service depot. I checked out the two Citroens and found the quiet one had a Spanish built Rotodiesel injector pump, the rotary type, the noisy one a German built Bosch rotary injector pump.

 

When these pumps were on a test rig in our diesel room, the Bosch pump was significantly louder than a Rotodiesel when driven by the test rig.

 

So, injector pumps CAN be noisy, as can the high pressure pulses that cause 'knocking' from the injector pipes if poorly supported. I once reduced engine noise by replacing the injector pipe clips that held the injector pipes together that an owner had removed for some reason on a Yanmar marine engine. Instead of a loud, clearly defined clicking noise, it reduced to a quieter, more blurred and softer sound.

 

The oft quoted 'Diesel Knock' is not always from engine components whizzing up and down and round and round, but from the fuel injection equipment.