Return to the cut after 20 years.

[Mike Coombes]

Our first canal experience was in 1972. With a couple who lived opposite us whose FiL had just purchased a new build from Willow Wren at Rugby, we moved it for them to Little Venice. What a great start to our canal experience.

 

It was very nice, the canals were quiet, the boat was new and trouble free, the only problem was the nightly consumption of alcohol. Clive and I were, at that time, aspireing piss artists. The Girls were not far behind either.........................

 

Later, after delivering the "John Kyrle" to FiL at Little Venice, we had a consortium and purchased a brand new boat with our neighbours. Sounds grand, but as impecunious new homeowners, money was tight, very tight.

 

The answer was found at the Stockwell Road Emporium of Pride and Clark, the famous Motor and Motorcycle dealer in Brixton, South London. They had a camping dept and leaning against a wall was a brand new 16 foot plywood dinghy with hardwood trim. £17.00, unpainted. We left a fiver, took it and a little brown book away and sent the book back each month with a green pound note in it until paid off. We painted it and used it on the Thames, K&A, Oxford and GU. With a little Seagull 40 plus I found as a non runner it gave us a lot of fun.

 

Later we swopped it and some cash for an 18 foot 2 berth plywood cruiser with a 6hp Evinrude. Many adventures in that little gem too.

 

We passed our share on to the neighbours and bought a cheap 40 foot ish Milton Keynes narrowboat. Five years of adventures, hard work improving and wonderful boating, mainly on the South Oxford.

 

A break as we had two sons. Boating with active toddlers was dangerous, bloody dangerous, so we sold up and had no more canal action after 1985.

 

Later, 1998, while recovering from a serious life changing car crash we bought into a timeshare canal boat outfit. Great boats, good area plus being able to exchange to many other bases. This was perfect and we got to do more Northern Canals.

 

A Senior Moment followed and Sailing became a passion when the kids moved out. We had three yachts, two very serious ones. We averaged 2000 NM's each season, did all the maintainence we could and travelled widely around the UK and Irish coastline.

 

Unfortunately First Mate has had a medical incident-she has recovered-but offshore sailing is not on our future agenda. With this in mind, and wishing to continue 'on the water' we have contemplated a return to canal boating. What better way to see if it still holds attraction than to try it once again. 

 

First Mate found a late deal-four nights onboard from Foxhanger below Devizes. It was very good. First Mate did her usual brilliant helming, I did the bridges and locks, we enjoyed the pubs and a walk around Bradford upon Avon.

 

Now the sad part. Lots of what can only be described as 'Slumboats' along the way. Much increased from the remembered times of yore. Plus 'Slumboat' dwellers shouting abuse when passing at idle in ahead. No wake, no wash, no nothing!! Not pleasant for First Mate, who was I/C helming. I took one to task who was offensively rude, suggesting that idle in ahead was as slow as one can go keeping control. He said we should coast in neutral. As there was at least a quarter mile of moored boats opposite a big reedbed making an extremely narrow channel, that obviously was not an option. Plus, there were three other hire boats following, just a few hundred yards behind. I imagine his tirade would have been passed on to the following boats. Not pleasant for them either.

 

Apart from a couple of newby's who emptied two locks in front of boats exiting the lock above, no other issues. It did not affect us, just those who should have had the lock. The K&A was profligate with water, so wastage was not a problem. No water issues there as far as we saw.

 

After handing the boat back this morning we made our way home but stopped on a bit of K&A near the Crofton pump works. Took a look along the towpath for a mile or so. Far less 'Slumboats', in fact, only one that could be described that way. Plenty of liveaboards, but tidy boats, no junk blocking the towpath like the bit below Devizes. The water was clearer, more weed visible and had a green tinge, not the milky brown of the Western bit we had been on.

 

So, we enjoyed our break, the boat handling and working was just as before. Even at 78 I easily managed the paddles, gates and swingbridges.

 

What we did not like were the way the rural areas along the towpath had been despoiled by wrecks and junk on the towpath.

 

Appreciate any comments from well travelled active canal users as to whether our experience was normal?

Edited July 25 by Mike Coombes

[b00ke23]

8 minutes ago, Mike Coombes said:

Now the sad part. Lots of what can only be described as 'Slumboats' along the way. Much increased from the remembered times of yore. Plus 'Slumboat' dwellers shouting abuse when passing at idle in ahead. No wake, no wash, no nothing!! Not pleasant for First Mate, who was I/C helming. I took one to task who was offensively rude, suggesting that idle in ahead was as slow as one can go keeping control. He said we should coast in neutral. As there was at least a quarter mile of moored boats opposite a big reedbed making an extremely narrow channel, that obviously was not an option. Plus, there were three other hire boats following, just a few hundred yards behind. I imagine his tirade would have been passed on to the following boats. Not pleasant for them either.

 

That section of the K&A from Bradford on Avon to Bath is exceptionally slummy. I doubt there is anywhere worse on the system for slum boats complete with owners that have drug abuse and/or mental issues. I had exactly the same experience along there a couple of years ago, although at the time one of the slum owners overtook me in a small dinghy with outboard producing considerable wake....I notice he didn't get shouted at. 

 

As you noted, the rest of the K&A is largely ok. There are a lot of liveaboards and more slum boats than average compared to other canals but not in the concentrations found near Bath. The section from Devizes to Pewsey is stunning in places. 

 

So no your experience was distinctly not normal when compared to the rest of the canal system.

[Arthur Marshall]

8 minutes ago, Mike Coombes said:

What we did not like were the way the rural areas along the towpath had been despoiled by wrecks and junk on the towpath.

 

Appreciate any comments from well travelled active canal users as to whether our experience was normal?

Certainly isn't further north. Shropshire Union has plenty of long-term moorings but they're generally well maintained. You get a few dumped boats and CCers on the towpath but nrarely a lot of crap on the bank, and that goes for the Llangollen, T&M and the Macc.  I remember the Oxford being perfectly pleasant, too. 

Nothing like what I understand is the case of the K&A or  presumably, London, but they appear to be special cases and you can't judge the rest of the system by them.

[David Mack]

We recently shared locks on the Buckby flight with two Swedish couples on a hire boat. The one couple had previously hired about 20 years ago. Their observations were similar to yours - they hugely enjoyed the trip, loved the British countryside, but noted just how many more scruffy boats there were tied up at random places on the towpath than on their previous trip.

[manxmike]

I remember a few years ago cruising just after a lot of "travelers" had got rid of their unlicenced vans and buses and had taken to the canals. There seemed to be an inordinate number of very scruffy boats with "interesting" looking people, huge numbers of children (unwashed and often naked) and vast numbers of feral looking dogs. There would usually be large quantities of things on the tow path around the boats. They always seemed very happy though, possibly due to the marijuana they were growing quite openly on the roof of the boats?

At the same time there were numbers of "garden sheds" on hulls. Home built using almost anything that was around - always interesting to look at and to try and decide what had been used to build them.

It's almost boring now they've all gone.

Edited July 26 by manxmike
schpelling

[Bee]

Hmm. First holiday on canals was 1962 on half a wooden narrowboat hired from Atherstone. Actually moved on to a boat on early 70's and travelled midland and Oxford, GU, Thames etc. Biggest difference between then and now? Not really the 'slum' boats but definitely the urbanisation of what was countryside but is now just boring suburbs, industrial estates, motorways and miles of moored boats. Oh, and the expense of licences, mooring fees, BSS inspections and all the other rules and regs. What used to feel like a taste of freedom and discovery now just feels like urban claustrophobia in many areas. Slum boats are a minor irritation and sometimes actually quite interesting in a funny sort of way. Miles of dreary newbuilds and identikit housing and giant warehouses are just plain boring.  Nothing is ever perfect but the drawbacks of boating in France (Heat, hornets, droughts etc) we can put up with.

[Mike Todd]

I have long felt that going back after a long time elsewhere is always a dangerous process, even if only when you say 'back in my day . . .'

 

In fact, the canals, as a subculture, has rarely stayed the same for very long. For example, the chocolate box image of working boats as a pair with liveaboard family was quite brief and largely a depressed reaction to competition from railways. It is a tribute to the concept of inland waterways that it still survives, but always by significant adaptation. It is here now only because of the advent of leisure cruising and now is, in places, becoming presumed low cost housing or a refuge for those that have found aspects of modern society to be unbearable, or at least a little worse than an itinerant (ish) life style. 

 

I still find enough positive to keep boating whilst we can!

[Wafi]

This place on the Thames just upstream from Richmond must be the ultimate slum boat; I think there's a proper hull in there somewhere, also an assortment of rafts, at least one old sailing dinghy etc. I haven't passed for a couple of years (I used to canoe up and down the stretch) but the guy on board was always really friendly. Don't know the circumstances, but I assume he must have legitimate use of the mooring.

 

I used to worry about him when the river was in spate; he must either of had nerves of steel or somewhere else to stay, but his home always seemed to make it through in one piece.

 

There used to be a fairly friendly (but very messy) bunch of people living under some arches 500 yards upstream from Richmond Bridge. The council moved them on and fenced the arches off, allegedly to facilitate cafes and similar outlets, but the cafes never appeared and the now-fenced-off arches aren't much more attractive than the encampment. In fairness, a councillor responded to my email and said that they had all been provided with alternate accommodation and other support.

 

[Bee]

Crumbs, that's a bit of a mess. was it floating? I suppose if you can make your own island you might be able to claim it as yours. I blame that sort of thing on books like 'Robinson Crusoe' it makes some people want to make huts and suchlike out of whatever is lying around, then some of them get boats and have a lovely time living like hermits and castaways. Actually that describes lots of boaters.

[Wafi]

Yes, floating. I can't recall the exact arrangement, but I *think* there was at least one substantial hull in there somewhere. Just found this article from 2003 suggesting he'd already been there for 20 years then, so that's at least 40 years now.

[magnetman]

22 hours ago, booke23 said:

 

That section of the K&A from Bradford on Avon to Bath is exceptionally slummy. 

The last time I was down there was in 2001 and it was already turning to a slum housing area. 

 

It's basically a dead end. Same always happens to dead ends.

 

With any luck the CRT are going to work it out and make moves to displace the idiots. 

 

Having said that we don't particularly want them on the River ! 

 

 

6 hours ago, Wafi said:

 

 

That is the raft man. He had a major fire a few years ago which almost took most of it out but seems to have rebuilt it. As he is the only one it is viewed as a quaint English eccentric. 

 

He probably has a 2 million pound house in Richmond

 

If there is only one it is okay. Once everyone else wants to do it the probability of getting arseholes who shout at the public increases rapidly. 

 

The basic problem is that unless one does genuinely like living on a Boat it is not a satisfactory dwelling. People are able to convince themselves that it is by using stupefiants and cheap alcohol but very often the outcome is social problems. 

 

There is no need for somebody to shout at others who are passing. This is a symptom of a circumstance where the person shouting is in a bad position.  These people should be supported by the state not other users of leisure waterways. 

 

 

 

 

History tells us that society moves towards a position of eliminating slums. That is how it works. If a slum starts to build up there will be inappropriate behaviour and poor land use which degrades amenity value. 

 

The result time and time again is regulations which force change which is very often detrimental to those who were not part of the slum social problems in the first place.

 

This is what will happen on canals There will be a 'cleansing' it is inevitable. 

 

 

 

I like scruffy Boats. I live on one but what I do not like is antisocial persons who shout at others or spoil their day. Obviously this is more likely to happen on canals due to proximity but at the end of the day the inland waterways are a public amenity. Much like a park. 

 

If you put your caravan in a park and spoil the land and shout at people going past you will be gone within hours with a police escort. 

 

I don't fully understand why a canal would be any different. At the end of the day it is an inland waterway which is under the control of a government funded quasi-charity. Why would they want to have antisocial people in inadequate dwellings occupying their land? It makes no sense. 

 

 

[LEO]

Interesting posting, I sold up last year after nearly 50 years of boating, yes, canals have changed. and are becoming linear housing estates, over regulation, especially with the BSC is a nuisance, and CRT is underfunded for medium/long term maintenance of the network. Oh, and age meant boating had become difficult. The constant annual increase in costs did not help.........There seems to be a decline in the interest of the 'heritage' of canals and boating, which is a  shame..........it's tricky finding something to fill the void, I miss the maintenance side of things, scumbling odd bits brought home for repair, polishing the Gardner.....

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, LEO said:

Interesting posting, I sold up last year after nearly 50 years of boating, yes, canals have changed. and are becoming linear housing estates, over regulation, especially with the BSC is a nuisance, and CRT is underfunded for medium/long term maintenance of the network. Oh, and age meant boating had become difficult. The constant annual increase in costs did not help.........There seems to be a decline in the interest of the 'heritage' of canals and boating, which is a  shame..........it's tricky finding something to fill the void, I miss the maintenance side of things, scumbling odd bits brought home for repair, polishing the Gardner.....

 

 

And the sad decline in interest in proper engines....

 

 

I wonder if in 50 years the Beta 43 will written about with such high regard as 2LWs and JP3s....

 

 

[IanD]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

And the sad decline in interest in proper engines....

 

 

I wonder if in 50 years the Beta 43 will written about with such high regard as 2LWs and JP3s....

 

 

Surely a *proper* engine is a 1-cyl Bolinder, or a 2-cyl compound steamer? 😉

[Peanut]

The History Reenactors, might even use 'orses to show how it used to be done.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

Surely a *proper* engine is a 1-cyl Bolinder, or a 2-cyl compound steamer? 😉

Surely a *proper* engine is a horse.

[Yank on the Cut]

On 25/07/2025 at 17:29, Mike Coombes said:

Our first canal experience was in 1972. With a couple who lived opposite us whose FiL had just purchased a new build from Willow Wren at Rugby, we moved it for them to Little Venice. What a great start to our canal experience.

 

It was very nice, the canals were quiet, the boat was new and trouble free, the only problem was the nightly consumption of alcohol. Clive and I were, at that time, aspireing piss artists. The Girls were not far behind either.........................

 

Later, after delivering the "John Kyrle" to FiL at Little Venice, we had a consortium and purchased a brand new boat with our neighbours. Sounds grand, but as impecunious new homeowners, money was tight, very tight.

 

The answer was found at the Stockwell Road Emporium of Pride and Clark, the famous Motor and Motorcycle dealer in Brixton, South London. They had a camping dept and leaning against a wall was a brand new 16 foot plywood dinghy with hardwood trim. £17.00, unpainted. We left a fiver, took it and a little brown book away and sent the book back each month with a green pound note in it until paid off. We painted it and used it on the Thames, K&A, Oxford and GU. With a little Seagull 40 plus I found as a non runner it gave us a lot of fun.

 

Later we swopped it and some cash for an 18 foot 2 berth plywood cruiser with a 6hp Evinrude. Many adventures in that little gem too.

 

We passed our share on to the neighbours and bought a cheap 40 foot ish Milton Keynes narrowboat. Five years of adventures, hard work improving and wonderful boating, mainly on the South Oxford.

 

A break as we had two sons. Boating with active toddlers was dangerous, bloody dangerous, so we sold up and had no more canal action after 1985.

 

Later, 1998, while recovering from a serious life changing car crash we bought into a timeshare canal boat outfit. Great boats, good area plus being able to exchange to many other bases. This was perfect and we got to do more Northern Canals.

 

A Senior Moment followed and Sailing became a passion when the kids moved out. We had three yachts, two very serious ones. We averaged 2000 NM's each season, did all the maintainence we could and travelled widely around the UK and Irish coastline.

 

Unfortunately First Mate has had a medical incident-she has recovered-but offshore sailing is not on our future agenda. With this in mind, and wishing to continue 'on the water' we have contemplated a return to canal boating. What better way to see if it still holds attraction than to try it once again. 

 

First Mate found a late deal-four nights onboard from Foxhanger below Devizes. It was very good. First Mate did her usual brilliant helming, I did the bridges and locks, we enjoyed the pubs and a walk around Bradford upon Avon.

 

Now the sad part. Lots of what can only be described as 'Slumboats' along the way. Much increased from the remembered times of yore. Plus 'Slumboat' dwellers shouting abuse when passing at idle in ahead. No wake, no wash, no nothing!! Not pleasant for First Mate, who was I/C helming. I took one to task who was offensively rude, suggesting that idle in ahead was as slow as one can go keeping control. He said we should coast in neutral. As there was at least a quarter mile of moored boats opposite a big reedbed making an extremely narrow channel, that obviously was not an option. Plus, there were three other hire boats following, just a few hundred yards behind. I imagine his tirade would have been passed on to the following boats. Not pleasant for them either.

 

Apart from a couple of newby's who emptied two locks in front of boats exiting the lock above, no other issues. It did not affect us, just those who should have had the lock. The K&A was profligate with water, so wastage was not a problem. No water issues there as far as we saw.

 

After handing the boat back this morning we made our way home but stopped on a bit of K&A near the Crofton pump works. Took a look along the towpath for a mile or so. Far less 'Slumboats', in fact, only one that could be described that way. Plenty of liveaboards, but tidy boats, no junk blocking the towpath like the bit below Devizes. The water was clearer, more weed visible and had a green tinge, not the milky brown of the Western bit we had been on.

 

So, we enjoyed our break, the boat handling and working was just as before. Even at 78 I easily managed the paddles, gates and swingbridges.

 

What we did not like were the way the rural areas along the towpath had been despoiled by wrecks and junk on the towpath.

 

Appreciate any comments from well travelled active canal users as to whether our experience was normal?

In the early 2000s I looked after John Kyrle, your first boat, on Blomfield Rd in Little Venice when the owner rented it out.  A nice boat but getting tired, especially the wooden superstructure. 

[IanD]

4 hours ago, David Mack said:

Surely a *proper* engine is a horse.

That's not an engine, it's an animal... 😉

[LEO]

On 27/07/2025 at 07:41, MtB said:

 

 

And the sad decline in interest in proper engines....

 

 

I wonder if in 50 years the Beta 43 will written about with such high regard as 2LWs and JP3s....

 

 

Quite possibly, with proper care and maintenance they should last, but will the canals be there for boats and engines to use?.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

On 27/07/2025 at 07:41, MtB said:

 

 

And the sad decline in interest in proper engines....

 

 

I wonder if in 50 years the Beta 43 will written about with such high regard as 2LWs and JP3s....

 

 

The BMC engines, similar size and high revs high to present day Beta 43s are still going strong and many are older than fifty years. They even have a subsection on the Vintage Engines section of the forum.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The BMC engines, similar size and high revs high to present day Beta 43s are still going strong and many are older than fifty years. They even have a subsection on the Vintage Engines section of the forum.

 

 

But towpath strollers never used to stop and listen and and ask me "Is it a Lister?" when I had a BMC, like they did with the K1 or the Skandia hot bulb. And still do with the K2 and the Gleniffer. 

 

(Or even better, I once heard a bloke explaining to his small son that my K1 was a steam engine!)

 

But maybe you're right and in year 2060 people will ask in hushed tones "Is that a Beta 43?"!

[magnetman]

17 hours ago, IanD said:

That's not an engine, it's an animal... 😉

Not according to Descartes

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_machine

 

"...associated with 17th-century philosopher René Descartes, who argued that nonhuman animals are automata—complex, self-moving biological machines devoid of thought, reason, consciousness, or immaterial souls."

[IanD]

27 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Not according to Descartes

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_machine

 

"...associated with 17th-century philosopher René Descartes, who argued that nonhuman animals are automata—complex, self-moving biological machines devoid of thought, reason, consciousness, or immaterial souls."

I believe it's what the ODGs used to call boat horses/donkeys, but you missed that... 😉 

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

But towpath strollers never used to stop and listen and and ask me "Is it a Lister?" when I had a BMC, like they did with the K1 or the Skandia hot bulb. And still do with the K2 and the Gleniffer. 

 

(Or even better, I once heard a bloke explaining to his small son that my K1 was a steam engine!)

 

But maybe you're right and in year 2060 people will ask in hushed tones "Is that a Beta 43?"!

I've had towpath strollers stop and listen and ask me "Is it electric?"... 😉 

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

I believe it's what the ODGs used to call boat horses/donkeys, but you missed that... 😉 

I've had towpath strollers stop and listen and ask me "Is it electric?"... 😉 

 

I can usually tell without asking, from the humming/buzzing/whining noise they make as they go along...   

 

 

[Russ T]

36 minutes ago, magnetman said:

"...associated with 17th-century philosopher René Descartes, who argued that nonhuman animals are automata—complex, self-moving biological machines devoid of thought, reason, consciousness, or immaterial souls."

I thought that was <insert your chosen politcal party here>.

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I can usually tell without asking, from the humming/buzzing/whining noise they make as they go along...   

Are we still talking about the horse, or have we moved on?