Reminder to trust no one to do locks...or leave someone on the bank!

[cheesegas]

On a friends boat yesterday passing through Denham Deep lock, going down. We were going through with another narrowboat, both with the fenders up. Approaching the lock there were 4 people standing by the top gates, wearing lifejackets with a Hillingdon Narrowboat Association boat below, waiting to come up. They motioned for us to enter the lock, and said that they'll run the lock, no need to get off. 

 

Denham is a particularly deep lock, a fall of something like 12ft.

 

As they were crew of a working boat who are (hopefully...) formally qualified with a Boatmasters and all that, we trusted them to not be idiots. They were a little abrupt, verging on rude but we thought they may have just been in a rush.

 

Going down, about half way, the uxter plate jammed on something sticking out of the lock wall, tipping the boat over alarmingly and wedging it against the other boat. We shouted up at the Hillingdon crew, but they all had their backs turned and were paying zero attention. Hooted the horn and finally got their attention, but by the time they had bimbled over to take a look, whatever was sticking out the lock broke off and the boat dropped into the water.

 

As there was a trail of brick dust and a hole left in the side of the lock, it must have been a loose brick sticking out sideways which eventually sheared off.. Reported it to the CRT as the bricks next to it looked pretty loose too!

[IanM]

2 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

formally qualified with a Boatmasters and all that

 

Why would you think that?

[Kingdom Isambard Brunel]

That will Learn ya!

 

Do your own locks, your boat, your lock, you in command. No one else!

[cheesegas]

4 minutes ago, IanM said:

Why would you think that?

Hillingdon Narrowboats Association are a commercial operation - the skipper should have a Boatmasters (or CoC I think?) at minimum. I don't know a whole lot about the qualification system though. As there was no one on the boat waiting below the lock, he must have been amongst the group waiting by the gates. The crew don't need any qualifications.

 

3 minutes ago, Kingdom Isambard Brunel said:

That will Learn ya!

 

Do your own locks, your boat, your lock, you in command. No one else!

Indeed! Usually that's the case, we were lulled into a false sense of security by a professional looking outfit rather than a leisure boater I guess. I've run into them before and certain members of the Association can be rather verbally persuasive to get you to stay on your boat, which I don't appreciate.

Edited July 21, 2025 by cheesegas

[magnetman]

One would assume there is someone in charge with some sort of certification. 

 

However I would still refuse the help if it were me and I would already be on the lockside having bowhauled my Boat into the chamber. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

 

Indeed! Usually that's the case, we were lulled into a false sense of security by a professional looking outfit rather than a leisure boater I guess.

 

Good use of the word 'looking'  

 

 

 

 

One of the balance beams fell off a bottom gate at Denham deep and ended up in the lock. I would not like to have been in there. I always did it but these days with failing infrastructure I think it is more important than ever to be on the lockside rather than on the Boat where it is possible to haul it in and out. 

 

Be the horse for a bit. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2025 by magnetman

[cheesegas]

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

One would assume there is someone in charge with some sort of certification. 

 

However I would still refuse the help if it were me and I would already be on the lockside having bowhauled my Boat into the chamber. 

 

One of the balance beams fell off a bottom gate at Denham deep and ended up in the lock. I would not like to have been in there. I always did it but these days with failing infrastructure I think it is more important than ever to be on the lockside rather than on the Boat where it is possible to haul it in and out. 

 

Be the horse for a bit. 

I'm fairly sure the Boatmaster assumes responsibility for the vessel and crew, I don't know how this extends legally if they're not on the boat though. I'd hope that they still retain responsibility and are in charge of what their crew are doing at locks though.

 

The top gates were already open as we approached, so we just motored in.

 

A couple of months ago, a boat going up at Denham was too far forwards and the bow got caught on the wooden beam (capped with steel) below the cill, bending it upwards as the boat rose. An average narrowboat could just pass, but in a deep draughted boat going down, the bent beam would be below the water and would probably snag the prop.

 

Denham seems to be rathe accident prone!

Edited July 21, 2025 by cheesegas

[magnetman]

Yes I meant bow hauling in and out of an empty chamber. Obviously not necessary on a full lock as there is nothing which can fall on your head as you go out. 

 

I saw a photo of the balance beam in the lock. If someone had been exiting when it fell there could have been a serious issue around testing how strong the bones are. Crunch. 

 

 

 

It was one of the steel beams on wooden gate. Rotten wood then it just twists off one day. Not the only one to have done so. 

 

 

[dmr]

Never trust anybody else to be in charge of your lock and boat unless you are sure they are competent.

Maybe they always do the same bit of canal, know it well, and have never had a near miss, and so have adopted an "its all routine and can't go wrong" attitude?. I am amazed at how relaxed many people are about locking and pay no attention to what is going on with the boat. Maybe having a boat that is best part of 71 foot has made me over cautious, but there is a lot just waiting to wrong.

[GUMPY]

Teddington lock years ago the chine of Idleness caught on a projection from the lockside. Shouted at the keeper to shut the sluices but was pretty much ignored.

Eventually the protection gave way and we dropped into the lock, only just managed to hold it on the ropes.

And that was a professional lock keeper🫣

[cheesegas]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

Never trust anybody else to be in charge of your lock and boat unless you are sure they are competent.

Maybe they always do the same bit of canal, know it well, and have never had a near miss, and so have adopted an "its all routine and can't go wrong" attitude?. I am amazed at how relaxed many people are about locking and pay no attention to what is going on with the boat. Maybe having a boat that is best part of 71 foot has made me over cautious, but there is a lot just waiting to wrong.

Yep, they're based in Harefield, a couple of miles north of Denham and this is part of their day trip route I think, I've seen their boats going back and forth a lot when moored in Denham. As you say, I expect they've got complacent as it's part of their routine now. Some of their crew/skippers can be quite rude in their attempts to be verbally persuasive when telling you to stay on your boat, thinking back on it I'm fairly sure I had a brief argument with one at Batchworth Lock a couple of years ago over this!

 

Never again will I get fooled by a confident person with a branded T shirt and a lifejacket! 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

Never trust anybody else to be in charge of your lock and boat unless you are sure they are competent.

Maybe they always do the same bit of canal, know it well, and have never had a near miss, and so have adopted an "its all routine and can't go wrong" attitude?. I am amazed at how relaxed many people are about locking and pay no attention to what is going on with the boat. Maybe having a boat that is best part of 71 foot has made me over cautious, but there is a lot just waiting to wrong.

 

Me too, and especially when its your boat in the lock and not theirs.

 

People working the lock 'for you' are in my experience doing nothing of the sort, they are working you through the lock because they want to get through themselves next, and they will lose interest in the welfare of you on your boat in a heartbeat if something more interesting happens, e.g. a chat with another boater.

 

My advice is have at least one crew off the boat and on the bank when locking, and when single handing that means you! Surprisingly my suggestion gets scoffed at by at least one old hand on here who disagrees but I observe other people working a lock for someone else are fickle and lose interest easily. Its just that 999 times out of 1,000 nothing goes wrong but if it does, there is nothing a single hander at the helm of his or her boat can do the fix it, when they need to be on the bank with windlass. 

 

Rant over!

 

 

[Machpoint005]

57 minutes ago, dmr said:

and so have adopted an "its all routine and can't go wrong" attitude?

 

I came across exactly that attitude from the Safety Officer on an offshore oil production platform, in May 1988. Why do I remember the date?

 

 

 

 

The platform was Piper Alpha.

 

[LadyG]

I remember the avgas fuel bowser driver at Dishforth leaning against the tractor wheel and smoking a cigarette,  I was not going to quietly go and speak to him, so I told the CFI, that was the last I saw of him.

Edited July 21, 2025 by LadyG

[Momac]

Unfortunately my wife is easily distracted into conversations with passers by. A visit to the shops can take hours if she meets someone she hasn't seen for a while. 

In a lock this distraction almost ended badly on one occasion but I think she has learned  from that event to keep an eye on what is happening with the boat  in the lock. Unfortunately my experience with some volunteer lock keepers is they don't necessarily keep an eye on the boats. 

 

Coming into a mooring can be an issue with helpers on the shore. My experience is they usually just get in the way. I even had an  unexpected and unwanted  helper complain quite angrily  that I didn't have rope ready when the rope was located  ready for anticipated use by me.

 

 

 

[David Schweizer]

6 hours ago, cheesegas said:

Hillingdon Narrowboats Association are a commercial operation - the skipper should have a Boatmasters (or CoC I think?) at minimum. I don't know a whole lot about the qualification system though. As there was no one on the boat waiting below the lock, he must have been amongst the group waiting by the gates. The crew don't need any qualifications.

 

Indeed! Usually that's the case, we were lulled into a false sense of security by a professional looking outfit rather than a leisure boater I guess. I've run into them before and certain members of the Association can be rather verbally persuasive to get you to stay on your boat, which I don't appreciate.

 

Hillingdon Narrowboats Association is not a "commercial operation", it is a Registered Charity .

[cheesegas]

7 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Hillingdon Narrowboats Association is not a "commercial operation", it is a Registered Charity .

As you can hire their boats with a skipper here, it is a commercial operation rather than a privately owned boat. It also happens to be a registered charity. Being a charity does not make them exempt from any MCA regs as far as I know.

https://hna.org.uk/boat-hire/

 

This means the person holding the tiller needs to have an MCA Boatmasters' license, which entitles you to carry up to 12 passengers under certain conditions. Here's some more info - https://www.gov.uk/find-licences/boatmasters-licence

Edited July 21, 2025 by cheesegas

[magnetman]

6 hours ago, MtB said:

 

My advice is have at least one crew off the boat and on the bank when locking, and when single handing that means you!

 

I am always on the lockside whatever vessel I am in on canals or the River with lock keepers. 

 

It cuts out a lot of potential problems particularly around communicating with others. 

 

[David Mack]

I would report the incident to Hillingdon Narrowboat Association and ask for a copy of the report of the incident in their accident book. If they say they have no record, suggest that in that case you will need to report the matter to MCA and  the Health & Safety Executive, as a breach of H&S law.

[Iain_S]

3 hours ago, cheesegas said:

As you can hire their boats with a skipper here, it is a commercial operation rather than a privately owned boat. It also happens to be a registered charity. Being a charity does not make them exempt from any MCA regs as far as I know.

https://hna.org.uk/boat-hire/

 

This means the person holding the tiller needs to have an MCA Boatmasters' license, which entitles you to carry up to 12 passengers under certain conditions. Here's some more info - https://www.gov.uk/find-licences/boatmasters-licence

The MCA have oversight of commercial (used in its loosest meaning!) passenger operations. A non MCA registered boat (up to 12 passengers, usually) requires the skipper to have some sort of qualification. An RYA Inland Waterways Helmsman's certificate is accepted, as are some certificates issued by the organisation running the trips, so not very onerous qualification. #

A normal Boatmaster's Licence qualifies the holder to skipper a vessel carrying up to 250 passengers, subject, of course, to the limitations of the vessel's certification.

[Bee]

This is an example of what can happen to anybody, anywhere, anytime.  We have been through countless locks, tunnels, swing bridges and other bits of engineering but somewhere near Stoke on Trent we got jammed in a lock by a practically submerged log. On the Thames we jammed going downhill as the lock got a wee bit narrower and our boat and the one alongside stuck, the lockeeper was far from helpful. Going downhill backwards (Don't ask) I got the front on the cill briefly and in France going uphill a fender got stuck on a control rod of the automatic lock.  All of these were unusual, unexpected and took seconds to go from 'what's happening? to Aargh!  Somewhere I have a photo of a length of rope hanging from a bollard set in the wall of a very deep lock somewhere in a commercial waterway in France with a frayed end . That was an Aargh! moment for someone. There are more near disasters we have had but as those were all my fault we needn't go into those.

[Arthur Marshall]

I admit I normally accept the offers of help at locks and stay on the boat, usually in the case of vlockies or private boaters, not always from hirers or people with kids carrying windlasses. The crucial thing, though, is that I don't trust any of them to do it right* and always keep a hand on the throttle and an eye on what's going on.

I can only remember a couple of occasions when things were done badly, and I've caused the same myself from lockside when off the boat with the odd slipping rope and once when it snapped. Accidents happen - the only time the boat got caught on a cill is when I was off the boat (I'd inadvertently left it in reverse) and the only person I know who sank his boat in a lock did it while on lockside.

I'm not sure a general rule is applicable, especially to the rather anarchic crew of boaters. We all do what feels comfortable to us. Most of us don't sink.

 

*this is a general personality trait. I don't really fully trust anyone, ever, about anything.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I admit I normally accept the offers of help at locks and stay on the boat, usually in the case of vlockies or private boaters, not always from hirers or people with kids carrying windlasses. The crucial thing, though, is that I don't trust any of them to do it right* and always keep a hand on the throttle and an eye on what's going on.

 

I used to do this too. Then one day the bow fender got caught up in something on the lock gate. I was at the helm with the engine in full astern but it would not come free. No amount of shouting or sounding the horn could attract the attention of the two people on the bank who had opened the paddles for me and walked away.

 

Just as I gave up and decided my boat was going to sink there was a massive BANG as my bow fender weak link finally gave way and the boat popped up to normal floating again, and the two people who'd opened the paddles and walked away finally came back to see what the bang was. 

 

From that day on I stay on the bank with windlass in hand when locking.

 

 

[MrsM]

The same thing as MtB happened to me at one of the Chester locks - bow fender got caught on a bolt. Strangely OH was actually looking down at the bow from the lock gates while it happened but couldn't see the boat being caught - from where he was it was not really visible. I could feel the bow dipping from my position at the helm and alerted him to drop the paddles. My fender link gave way and up we popped. It hadn't been especially serious but it was enough to make sure it couldn't happen again.

[blackrose]

9 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I admit I normally accept the offers of help at locks and stay on the boat, usually in the case of vlockies or private boaters, not always from hirers or people with kids carrying windlasses. The crucial thing, though, is that I don't trust any of them to do it right* and always keep a hand on the throttle and an eye on what's going on.

I can only remember a couple of occasions when things were done badly, and I've caused the same myself from lockside when off the boat with the odd slipping rope and once when it snapped. Accidents happen - the only time the boat got caught on a cill is when I was off the boat (I'd inadvertently left it in reverse) and the only person I know who sank his boat in a lock did it while on lockside.

I'm not sure a general rule is applicable, especially to the rather anarchic crew of boaters. We all do what feels comfortable to us. Most of us don't sink.

 

I agree. Although I'm sure all these warnings are well meaning I've never had a problem letting others work looks for me. I move my boat single handed and generally accept help if offered. I've also had a few near misses while working the lock on my own on the bank. Swings & roundabouts innit.

 

9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I used to do this too. Then one day the bow fender got caught up in something on the lock gate. I was at the helm with the engine in full astern but it would not come free. No amount of shouting or sounding the horn could attract the attention of the two people on the bank who had opened the paddles for me and walked away.

 

 

I can't help wondering what the bow was doing against the lock gate if you were at the helm and able to keep it off? 72ft boat?

 

Mine is only 57ft so there's never any reason for either end of the boat to be anywhere near either end of the lock.

9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

From that day on I stay on the bank with windlass in hand when locking.

 

You might find it difficult going through Limehouse lock if you refuse to stay on your boat. There must be others too where you're required to stay onboard at the helm. 

Edited July 22, 2025 by blackrose

[alan_fincher]

I think they want you to stay on board at Tuel Lane

 

In fact they may do so at other locks that require you to manage your mooring ropes by passing them behind those taut steel cables that stretch vertically up the lock side walls.