Width of bed in cabin

[Greenpen]

I am trying to determine the width of the athwart bed in a working boat cabin.  I am trying to draw the outlines of the contents of the cabin on the floor of Tooley’s Historic Boatyard Museum and it’s not proving straightforward!    

The dark blue represents the boatman’s cabin of NB Hardy.  The masking tape shows the positions of (left to right) the steps down, range and bed.   The wood object is the drop down table top.   The bed is currently 3 feet wide.
 

Two people in a 3 foot bed is cozy and I have been told it would have been wider.  However, firstly I cannot fit it in and, secondly, I have a plan from Yarwoods for a tradition boatman’s cabin that shows it as 3 feet wide. 
 

I guess it may have varied but I would welcome any comments on its width.  (Or of course, anything else!)

[Kingdom Isambard Brunel]

They would have been soft paillasses, straw or flock, and capable of being bent to fit into the corners. So they were possibly oversize and one occupant had to sleep bent.

Thankfully there were no bunk beds in BMCs! 

[Paul H]

 I don’t think a 3ft wide bed in a motor boat cabin is unusual in fact I’ve come across a 2ft 10” one.  They were rarely occupied by two adults who would have chosen the more commodious butty with a 3ft 6in to sleep on.  Of course the other limitation is the length between the lining boards on a wooden boat - 5ft 6ins if you’re lucky!

 

in Tom Chaplin’s A Short History of the Narrow Boat there is a scan of a few pages of Frank Nurser’s notebook which gives the “bed place” as 2ft 7 and a half ins!

 

Paul

Edited July 2 by Paul H

[David Mack]

3 ft is correct for the actual bedhole width. You get a couple of extra inches between the frames over most of the bed.

 

A 3ft bed isn't actually that bad for a couple - the wife and I regularly sleep in one.

 

GUCCC drawing of a Royalty boat cabin here, but the dimensions are much the same for any back cabin.

There are a couple of similar plans on the CRT Archive, but the online images aren't good enough to read the dimensions, but you could ask to see the originals.

https://collections.canalrivertrust.org.uk/MAPSPLANSONE361

https://collections.canalrivertrust.org.uk/MAPSPLANSONE400

 

[Kingdom Isambard Brunel]

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

3 ft is correct for the actual bedhole width. You get a couple of extra inches between the frames over most of the bed.

 

A 3ft bed isn't actually that bad for a couple

 

Which could account for the large number of boat children?

[Paul H]

42 minutes ago, Paul H said:

 I don’t think a 3ft wide bed in a motor boat cabin is unusual in fact I’ve come across a 2ft 10” one.  They were rarely occupied by two adults who would have chosen the more commodious butty with a 3ft 6in to sleep on.  Of course the other limitation is the length between the lining boards on a wooden boat - 5ft 6ins if you’re lucky!

 

in Tom Chaplin’s A Short History of the Narrow Boat there is a scan of a few pages of Frank Nurser’s notebook which gives the “bed place” as 2ft 7 and a half ins.

 

Paul

The notebook is now in the museum at Ellesmere Port and does not appear to have been digitised so you’ll need to visit or talk to an archivist on the phone - they’ve emailed me scans in the past (for a price.). There is also a website nurser.co.uk published by a descendent of Frank Nurser but all the pics have disappeared.  There is a page about “the notebook” which appears to suggest one page is labelled Cabin Dimensions http://nurser.co.uk/construction/notebook-at-national-waterw/index.html

 

Paul

Edited July 2 by Paul H

[Ray T]

Don't know if this any help, but you could have fun fitting it all in? 😀

Gives basic dimensions of the cabin.

 

Edited July 2 by Ray T

[Francis Herne]

Some plans, I think for a Royalty. 3' bed hole plus 2" framing.

Edited July 2 by Francis Herne

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Ray T said:

Don't know if this any help, but you could have fun fitting it all in? 😀

Gives basic dimensions of the cabin.

 

That cabin at 3m (almost 10ft) is rather longer than working motor boat cabins which were typically about 8' 6" long from the engine room bulkhead to the outside face of the back bulkhead.

[Mike Todd]

22 hours ago, Paul H said:

 I don’t think a 3ft wide bed in a motor boat cabin is unusual in fact I’ve come across a 2ft 10” one.  They were rarely occupied by two adults who would have chosen the more commodious butty with a 3ft 6in to sleep on.  Of course the other limitation is the length between the lining boards on a wooden boat - 5ft 6ins if you’re lucky!

 

in Tom Chaplin’s A Short History of the Narrow Boat there is a scan of a few pages of Frank Nurser’s notebook which gives the “bed place” as 2ft 7 and a half ins!

 

Paul

People were generally shorter and smaller back then depending on diet.

 

If you study old seating plans for parish churches with pews you will soon discover the differences between then and now 

[Woody Too]

I would agree that a motor boat cabin bed is around 3 foot width. I was able to look in Sculptor at Stoke Bruerne many years ago and was surprised how small it was. However butty boats usually have a larger bed and generally feel much bigger having no gunwales and have more headroom what with not having the propeller shafting running under the cabin floor. 

[Rob-M]

I find sleeping in the motor on the cross bed is ok on my own but I have to sleep diagonally across it as unable to lie out straight across the boat.

[mrsmelly]

Reminds me of what my Dad explained to me about life on working boats. He worked on boats out of Goole down to Nottingham and across to Hull mainly. The skipper, his uncle, my great uncle had a cabin but my Dad had a bed roll, much like a sleeping bag that he rolled out under the seat in front of the wheel in the aft cabin. The second boat he was on was totaly open with no cabin and was tiller steered he put his bed roll in the engine ole on that boat. Imagine the nappy wetting with yoofs these days if they had to do such things!!

[Bitty]

Mine on FMC  England. 

[alan_fincher]

8 minutes ago, Bitty said:

Mine on FMC  England. 

 

Oh I see!  The pillows are supposed to be on the right hand side of the boat!

That;s what I have been doing wrong!

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Could go top to tail?

[Derek R.]

8 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

 

Oh I see!  The pillows are supposed to be on the right hand side of the boat!

That;s what I have been doing wrong!

Sleeping head under the cupboard will give you headaches.

When we had Rosie (our first born) she slept in a hammock above our feet and beneath the cupboard.

[Greenpen]

Thank you for all the replies, very helpful indeed.   
 

The outline has been drawn about 2 feet 10 inches.   It is actually very difficult to map the cabin furniture onto a plan because of the tapering of the hull and the way it narrows from the cabin superstructure and hull shape.  It is now okay but not perfect!

Edited Friday at 20:53 by Greenpen

[Machpoint005]

On 03/07/2025 at 14:57, Mike Todd said:

People were generally shorter and smaller back then depending on diet.

 

If you study old seating plans for parish churches with pews you will soon discover the differences between then and now 

 

Or you could visit an unmodernised church to see for yourself.

 

Redundant, decommissioned, disenfranchised, decommissioned, deconsecrated (take your pick from those adjectives) churches are best.

 

There's a brilliant example in Macclesfield, complete with box pews. 

 

 

 

 

[Pluto]

Don't bother looking at church pews re a bed-hole, as the pews were designed to keep you awake. Sermons in Victorian times tended to be somewhat long.

[Wafi]

I've just discovered (thanks to the HNBC website) that the little door between the cross bed and the side bed is called a modesty flap, and was apparently a legal requirement!

[David Mack]

Yup. Its required to stop a child sleeping on the side bed from being corrupted by what Mum and Dad might be doing on the cross bed!

[Rob-M]

Always makes me laugh that the law was side stepped by adding what is effectively a small flap and calling it a door.

[Hudds Lad]

3 hours ago, Pluto said:

Don't bother looking at church pews re a bed-hole, as the pews were designed to keep you awake. Sermons in Victorian times tended to be somewhat long.

Not only in Victorian times my friend. When myself & J were getting wed, we used our local parish church. Figured we'd better show up at least once for the banns being read because how bad could it be. On the assumption it would be like the parish church where i grew up, service was about 30mins all in. How wrong we were, 1h45m of torturous seating and a good long hellfire and brimstone sermon about the wages of sin in modern society  

Can't tell you how thankful we were when at the last minute it turned out the vicar was double-booked and we managed to get my old vicar out of retirement to hold the service for us  

[Pluto]

That's what comes of living in a hotbed of non-conformism, where they take their religion seriously. I must take a bible with me when I go for physio at Huddersfield Royal tomorrow!