Lister HRW2 Solenoid

[fanshaft]

The solenoid on my 1973  HR2 keeps failing and has to be replaced.  It's been suggested I need to get one with a bigger rating. Any suggestions please? Thanks. David

[bizzard]

1 hour ago, fanshaft said:

The solenoid on my 1973  HR2 keeps failing and has to be replaced.  It's been suggested I need to get one with a bigger rating. Any suggestions please? Thanks. David

Do you mean a solenoid built onto the starter motor or a stand alone one to protect the ignition starter switch ?

[fanshaft]

Stand alone. Thanks. 

[Tony Brooks]

FWIW, not having specific experience. Looking on Google images, it looks as if that solenoid may be mounted on a bracket on the engine, if this is so the first thing I would do is move it to a mounting somewhere on the boat.  It seems solenoids like this and relays mounted on the engine tend not to take kindly to the engine vibrations.

 

The diagram in a manual I found looks very like an ordinary relay rather than a solenoid. If it is a small (rectangular  box) relay, then I would change it for an inertia starter solenoid. 

 

You say it keeps failing, exactly in what way?

[bizzard]

Use one like this from AES.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Use one like this from AES.

 

Fantastic. I thought those stopped being made in about 1968! 

 

 

 

https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/p/lucas-replacement-starter-solenoid-12v

 

 

[bizzard]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Fantastic. I thought those stopped being made in about 1968! 

 

 

 

https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/p/lucas-replacement-starter-solenoid-12v

 

 

They have others similar. Check out A.E.S interesting new old stuff.

Just now, bizzard said:

They have others similar. Check out A.E.S interesting new old stuff.

 

Just now, bizzard said:

They have others similar. Check out A.E.S interesting new old stuff.

Oh you;ve done it 

[fanshaft]

20 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Use one like this from AES.

Yes it looks like that. Not sure why this is a problem after 50 years with no issues. 

[bizzard]

1 minute ago, fanshaft said:

Yes it looks like that. Not sure why this is a problem after 50 years with no issues. 

Don't mount it on the engine but connect it's fixing bracket to the engine mass with a cable

[MtB]

18 minutes ago, bizzard said:

They have others similar.

 

I had a quick scan through the others on the site but this one is different - the only one I saw with a button for the mechanic to press to manually over-ride it. Which I don't think I've seen on any car since my Dad's 1963 Ford Anglebox. 

 

 

Edited July 2 by MtB

[bizzard]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I had a quick scan through the others on the site but this one is different - the only one I saw with a button for the mechanic to press to manually over-ride it. Which I don't think I've seen on any car since my Dad's 1963 Ford Anglebox. 

 

 

Many old cars had them. They were so handy for jogging the engine over from under the bonnet to adjust tappets or ig timing. Didn't need to have the ignition switched on to do this.

[fanshaft]

Many thanks for the valuable advice. Much appreciated.  David. 

[MtB]

20 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Many old cars had them. They were so handy for jogging the engine over from under the bonnet to adjust tappets or ig timing. Didn't need to have the ignition switched on to do this.

 

Absolutely! This is why I like them!

 

The same cars later than about 1965 had a similar-looking solenoid but without the maual button on the end. A sad loss I always thought.

 

 

 

[bizzard]

10 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Absolutely! This is why I like them!

 

The same cars later than about 1965 had a similar-looking solenoid but without the maual button on the end. A sad loss I always thought.

 

 

 

When I was an apprentice at a garage, the pump attendant owned a lovely M1 Ford Zodiac. He drove it into our workshop to have the tappets adjusted. I didn't know but he was one of those folk that left it in gear with the handbrake off. I'm leaning over the front with the valve cover off, I pressed the solenoid button and it stuck ON and the car pushed me towards the red hot old oil heater, Shouted for help and a buddy Tom came and clouted it with a hammer which save my pants fro getting burnt.

[MtB]

You were working in just your pants? No trousers on eh? 

 

Weird!!! 

[fanshaft]

8 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

FWIW, not having specific experience. Looking on Google images, it looks as if that solenoid may be mounted on a bracket on the engine, if this is so the first thing I would do is move it to a mounting somewhere on the boat.  It seems solenoids like this and relays mounted on the engine tend not to take kindly to the engine vibrations.

 

The diagram in a manual I found looks very like an ordinary relay rather than a solenoid. If it is a small (rectangular  box) relay, then I would change it for an inertia starter solenoid. 

 

You say it keeps failing, exactly in what way?

It stops working!  Pushing the button nothing happens.  It tends to fail gradually, becoming intermittent then more often, then finally stops working 

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, fanshaft said:

It stops working!  Pushing the button nothing happens.  It tends to fail gradually, becoming intermittent then more often, then finally stops working 

 

Sounds to me more like brushes on the starter motor failing or worn out. 

 

How do you know its the solenoid failing intermittently, not the starter motor?

 

[Lily Rose]

6 hours ago, MtB said:

You were working in just your pants? No trousers on eh? 

 

Weird!!! 

 

Perhaps he comes from the United States of Trump. I believe they all go round in their pants over there.

[fanshaft]

I sent one of the solenoids back to the supplier and it was confirmed failed but to be honest I didn't get any more information. 

[Tony Brooks]

If you buy one of the square solenoids (slightly more modern design) you can easily get them apart to look at the contacts. It is only 4 rivets to drill out, then they can be replaced with nits and screws. The type Bizzard linked to have the insulated terminal end swaged into place, so is more difficult to get apart and far more difficult to re-swage. The square type is the one shown in the manual I found and may well be the one Lister agents would supply. I don't think they are particularly less reliable than the round type.

 

There is not much inside either type apart from a single coil, a contact bar, and two contact pads that are part of the terminal studs, so I too suspect the fault may be else where, like a terminal with a poor connection (crimp) to the cable, or, as said, a problem inside the starter. After all, those solenoids are designed to pass the full petrol engine starting current, but you are only passing the current the starter's internal solenoid coils require, which is likely to be far less. Sorry, I do not have any values.

 

I wonder if internal modern solder joints are failing, but if so pushing the "button" should still operate the starter, so the fact it does not suggests dirty/burned contacts or an open circuit elsewhere.

 

Some square ones have a little rubber (often red) push diaphragm to bring the contacts together, others do not.