Minimum purchase for diesel

[Chris T]

Just passed Bailey's Trading Post on the Macclesfield and saw a sign that they will now only provide diesel if it's over 101 litres, and some stuff about selling by the kilo rather than litre. 

 

Not sure what this is all about, hopefully it's not a common thing as we tend to fill up with as low as 50 litres because the cost feels less painful. 

 

Has anyone come across this or anything similar before? 

[jonathanA]

Weird..... maybe they don't have a "meter" but do have weighing scales.... 

 

As there is no mention of domestic/propulsion split, I wonder if its some sort of wheeze to get round hmrc rules ? 

 

Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Not dated 1st April is it ? 🤔 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Yea Rose Narrowboats by Rugby wouldn’t sell less than 50L when I passed last year. 
 

dunno why,

weren’t going to debate it,

and bought elsewhere,

 

[BEngo]

I expect minimum orders reflect the costs of staff time to deliver the diesel and do  the HMRC  paperwork and the fairly low levels of net profit on red diesel.

 

 That said, 50 litres would not fill my day tank.

 

Edited June 14 by BEngo

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, 5239 said:

Yea Rose Narrowboats by Rugby wouldn’t sell less than 50L when I passed last year. 
 

dunno why,

weren’t going to debate it,

and bought elsewhere,

 

 

 

And neither would I.

 

By the time you have pulled out the hose to reach the boat, dispensed the fuel, rolled the hose back up,  back into the 'shop' taken the money all to get (maybe) £1 profit, out of which you have to pay the VAT and corporation tax, and wages.

[Arthur Marshall]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

And neither would I.

 

By the time you have pulled out the hose to reach the boat, dispensed the fuel, rolled the hose back up,  back into the 'shop' taken the money all to get (maybe) £1 profit, out of which you have to pay the VAT and corporation tax, and wages.

As opposed to sitting in a chair in the office looking out of the window. I suppose that's vat free.

[Chris T]

Hubby also questioned if it was 1 April 🤔. They've sold diesel for years so this is a new thing.

 

I can completely understand a minimum sale to make it worth their while, especially as they have to abandon their sales of coffees and cakes, no doubt a far bigger earner, but it seems a very high minimum, and I didn't understand the kg thing at all. 

[Alan de Enfield]

55 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

As opposed to sitting in a chair in the office looking out of the window. I suppose that's vat free.

 

Its called the 'opportunity cost'.

 

 I could sit in my chair  and sell something for £100s, or negotiate a new bin contract and save £100s

[dmr]

My guess is that they (or somebody else who they know) have had an unpleasant visit from Cusoms and Excise or Trading Standards or whoever, and it has been found that their metering system was not accurate for small quantities of fuel, and they have possibly over-reacted to this a bit. 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Chris T said:

Just passed Bailey's Trading Post on the Macclesfield and saw a sign that they will now only provide diesel if it's over 101 litres, and some stuff about selling by the kilo rather than litre. 

A quick Google has shown that selling by weight rather than volume is legal, if uncommon. But the same requirements for calibrated equipment and test records etc. apply, so I can't really see any advantage to the retailer in doing it differently to everybody else.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

A quick Google has shown that selling by weight rather than volume is legal, if uncommon. But the same requirements for calibrated equipment and test records etc. apply, so I can't really see any advantage to the retailer in doing it differently to everybody else.

Unless they already maintain calibrated scales for something else they sell, in which case, it can be used for diesel too, rather than having to keep a pump calibrated and maintained for by volume sales as well. Not familiar with the retailer.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Chris T said:

I can completely understand a minimum sale to make it worth their while, especially as they have to abandon their sales of coffees and cakes, no doubt a far bigger earner,

 

I very much doubt that. 

 

If you flog s slice of cake for say, three quid, the most you can make from the sale is three quid. Less once you've paid for the flour and eggs and butter. Probably about the same as they make from selling 100 litres of fuel.

 

I can see why people sometimes shell out several £m to buy a boatyard, with massive rip-off profits like that available...

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

And neither would I.

 

By the time you have pulled out the hose to reach the boat, dispensed the fuel, rolled the hose back up,  back into the 'shop' taken the money all to get (maybe) £1 profit, out of which you have to pay the VAT and corporation tax, and wages.

yeah ok,

take you away from playing solitaire would it?

 

fortunately other places are available,

 

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Its called the 'opportunity cost'.

 

 I could sit in my chair  and sell something for £100s, or negotiate a new bin contract and save £100s

But at a boatyard you almost certainly won't be, and you've also lost a sale of coal, gas, a few boat bits that the buyer didn't realise he needed till he got in the shop.

Or do you seriously think a boatyard is busy every minute of the day earning themselves a fortune?

More like opportunity lost.

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Or do you seriously think a boatyard is busy every minute of the day earning themselves a fortune?

More like opportunity lost.

 

I think keeping every berth filled for £5k a year each is better use of the boatyard owner's time than selling cake or diesel. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

But if you can only generate nearer to £2000 a year per berth then one might need to get off their lardy arse and sell some diesel and a few mooring pins-and smile while they do it. 

[TID Tug Tony]

Is the 100 litre limit something to do with keeping records of the red diesel sold and how it will be used, maybe the onus is more on the user if fuel is supplied "loose" rather than to a vessel?

[agg221]

I hope this doesn't become a common practice - we only have a 100l tank!

 

Alec

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, agg221 said:

I hope this doesn't become a common practice - we only have a 100l tank!

 

Alec

 

Happy if you want to put any 'overspill' into our 2800 litre tank

[rogher]

What would they do, I wonder, if your tank became full before the minimum amount had been put in?

[Mike Todd]

How do they weigh how much they have put in? Perhaps they bought the former boat scales from Stoke Bruerne. Keeping weighing scales calibrated to the same accuracy as for volume is just as expensive, I would think. Sounds as if someone has thought they have found sone kind of loophole.  They might well be disappointed.

Edited June 14 by Mike Todd

[David Mack]

4 minutes ago, rogher said:

What would they do, I wonder, if your tank became full before the minimum amount had been put in?

At my last heating oil delivery to our house  the tanker tanker driver asked to see inside the tank to confirm there was enough room for the quantity of oil I had ordered. First time I have had this request in 30 years living at this house. But apparently the delivery nozzles don't have the automatic cutoff that we are all used to on petrol pump hoses.

(And to cap it all, having struggled to open the cover on the top of the tank I couldn't damn well get it closed again properly after he had gone).

[PeterScott]

Quote

... We cannot stop you purchasing e.g. 21.5kg (25 litres) in a can and pouring it in yourself …

indigestible

[Chris T]

Just to add, this isn't a boatyard, it's a small place on the canal that does day boat hire, some chandlery (although since 'covid times' you can no longer go inside to browse), gas, diesel, coal, but always busy with people at the outside tables having drinks/cakes/ice creams.  

I saw on their Facebook page that someone had asked the reason for the change to dispensing fuel, but there was no reply. 

[Anonathy]

How can you sell it by weight when you're pumping it into a boats fuel tank anyway, is the entire holding tank on a set of scales and the difference calculated? Seems an odd way to do things instead of a traditional flow meter.