Dangerous vegetation!

[NB Alnwick]

Perhaps we should say 'dangerous trees' but having noted from the CRT Boaters Report 2024 that £7.3m was spent on "Vegetation Management", the title is probably correct.

Today, while heading downstream and negotiating a tight bend on the River Soar north of Leicester in the vicinity of Watermead just before Birstall Lock, we encountered a pair of former working boats, motor and butty, coming upstream. In order to avoid them and maintain control, we were forced over to the side of the navigation under some overhanging willow - most of which could be brushed aside but among these thinner branches, was one that was at least two inches thick and, having been pushed aside as the boat passed, it sprung back with sufficient force to knock Graham (who was steering) off his feet. Miraculously, apart from a cut and some bruising, no serious damage was done. However this was a potentially very dangerous situation and the outcome could have been much worse. Incidents like this underline the importance of cutting back all vegetation that presents a hazard where it overhangs the navigation.

Especially at bends on river sections.

[nicknorman]

1 minute ago, NB Alnwick said:

Perhaps we should say 'dangerous trees' but having noted from the CRT Boaters Report 2024 that £7.3m was spent on "Vegetation Management", the title is probably correct.

Today, while heading downstream and negotiating a tight bend on the River Soar north of Leicester in the vicinity of Watermead just before Birstall Lock, we encountered a pair of former working boats, motor and butty, coming upstream. In order to avoid them and maintain control, we were forced over to the side of the navigation under some overhanging willow - most of which could be brushed aside but among these thinner branches, was one that was at least two inches thick and, having been pushed aside as the boat passed, it sprung back with sufficient force to knock Graham (who was steering) off his feet. Miraculously, apart from a cut and some bruising, no serious damage was done. However this was a potentially very dangerous situation and the outcome could have been much worse. Incidents like this underline the importance of cutting back all vegetation that presents a hazard where it overhangs the navigation.

Especially at bends on river sections.

Nasty. Hopefully you reported the accident to CRT?

[NB Alnwick]

27 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Nasty. Hopefully you reported the accident to CRT?

 

Of course!

[ditchcrawler]

Well that was a disappointment, I read the title as Dangerous Vegetarians 

[GUMPY]

28 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Well that was a disappointment, I read the title as Dangerous Vegetarians 

We can be 😉

[magnetman]

Willow is a nightmare like that. I got a black eye a couple of years ago when I took the kayak through a more or less unnavigable chanel. (Abbey stream Chertsey). I did not have a saw so when I was blocked by a willow branch I used my adonis strength to bend it out of the way then it whipped back and slapped me really hard in the face. 

 

 

 Bad. I survived. 

 

But yes tree management around waterways is an interesting and rather expensive subject. 

 

 

[NB Alnwick]

The boats that were coming upstream were Adrastea and Nebulae, crewed by the Buckles and trading as Star Crafts. Normally, one might expect boats coming upstream to give way and allow room to manoeuvre but this would not have been easy with a pair.

[Momac]

 

1 hour ago, NB Alnwick said:

Incidents like this underline the importance of cutting back all vegetation that presents a hazard where it overhangs the navigation.

Especially at bends on river sections.

Incidents like this underline the importance of not driving through overhanging vegetation.

The vegetation was not in itself hazardous but the act of driving through it certainly was. 

 

[NB Alnwick]

8 minutes ago, Momac said:

 

Incidents like this underline the importance of not driving through overhanging vegetation.

The vegetation was not in itself hazardous but the act of driving through it certainly was. 

 

That is all very well on a canal but when going downstream on a River and meeting a pair of boats coming up on a narrow bend the choice is very much more limited. Ideally, boats coming upstream should give way but in this case they didn't and there was nowhere else to go.

[matty40s]

I guess this is the corner, opposite the wier?? Has always been a bad spot, with the river pulling you towards the wier with its footbridge walkway over. 

Vegetation management may well fall under local council responsibility on this section, as I think it is outside of the City/CRT agreement on the navigation management.

Edited May 30, 2025 by matty40s

[Momac]

17 minutes ago, NB Alnwick said:

That is all very well on a canal but when going downstream on a River and meeting a pair of boats coming up on a narrow bend the choice is very much more limited. Ideally, boats coming upstream should give way but in this case they didn't and there was nowhere else to go.

Not ideally - that is the rule. The boat travelling upstream should have given way .

So you were the stand on vessel and you could have stuck to your course and forced the boat travelling upstream to give way, You could have used a sound signal  if you didn't understand the oncoming boats intentions.

[ditchcrawler]

21 minutes ago, Momac said:

Not ideally - that is the rule. The boat travelling upstream should have given way .

So you were the stand on vessel and you could have stuck to your course and forced the boat travelling upstream to give way, You could have used a sound signal  if you didn't understand the oncoming boats intentions.

And then you could all have hit each other, maybe knocking a couple overboard to prove you were right.

[Momac]

8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

And then you could all have hit each other, maybe knocking a couple overboard to prove you were right.

I was not there.

[Stroudwater1]

9 hours ago, Momac said:

I was not there.

Indeed. Both boat crews here are very experienced, and know their boats well.  and I imagine the result was sadly the only one available in that situation. 

 

Perhaps it’s best not to try to judge the situation as you think it should have been in an ideal world. Matty has explained why it’s tricky with the weir too. 
 

In fairness there  has been a significant improvement in vegetation management in some areas this year. The Birmingham and  Fazely below  Minworth Coventry and North Oxford are much better. Hope the skipper and crew of Alnwick are OK and the vegetation round there is sorted. 

[Momac]

5 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 

 

Perhaps it’s best not to try to judge the situation as you think it should have been in an ideal world. Matty has explained why it’s tricky with the weir too. 
 

I didn't judge.

Just discussing the rules of the road.

No weir was mentioned by the OP.

Obviously its unwise to drive through overhanging trees. Sounds like the situation was mostly a matter of bad luck in boats arriving at a pinch point at the same moment with little sight lines.

But really that doesn't change the fact that the boat travelling upstream should have been  the one to take avoiding action .

Anyhow blaming the trees for being dangerous isn't really correct although clearly some pruning would improve the situation.

[Llamedos]

I’ve noticed CRT are increasingly using teams of volunteers on work boats for cutting overhanging vegetation. They didn’t used to allow volunteers to do that because of insurance / H&S issues but they’ve obviously had a re-think. It’s good use of work boats ‘sweating assets’ that might otherwise be sitting idle and increases the resource they can throw at the problem. As for the volunteers themselves I take my hat off to them, it’s hard work and not easy in some places. 

Edited May 30, 2025 by Llamedos

[Lady M]

I don't know if this is universal but my local canal society have someone 'CRT trained' present when they do vegetation work.  This may well apply to all power tool use.  

[David Mack]

50 minutes ago, Momac said:

Sounds like the situation was mostly a matter of bad luck in boats arriving at a pinch point at the same moment with little sight lines.

But really that doesn't change the fact that the boat travelling upstream should have been  the one to take avoiding action .

But what if the boat travelling upstream was already within the pinch point before either boat could see the other? Not much opportunity for it to take avoiding action in that situation.

[Llamedos]

21 minutes ago, Lady M said:

I don't know if this is universal but my local canal society have someone 'CRT trained' present when they do vegetation work.  This may well apply to all power tool use.  

I think they’re putting some of the volunteers through the same training. It’s a good investment if they’re fairly sure they’ll carry on volunteering. 

[Lady M]

Yes, I meant CRT trained volunteers.

[Llamedos]

10 minutes ago, Lady M said:

Yes, I meant CRT trained volunteers.

Sorry I understand now. 😊

[NB Alnwick]

12 hours ago, matty40s said:

I guess this is the corner, opposite the wier??

 

matty40s

I think it may have been a little bit further south of the weir - the middle bend in a series of three and the overhanging Willow was on the exit from the bend - the channel was narrow on the entry to the bend and we were running just fast enough to be able to navigate with the modest flow. I told C&RT that is was at 52°40'11.6"N 1°06'58.6"W

Edited May 30, 2025 by NB Alnwick

[Singing Boater]

19 hours ago, NB Alnwick said:

Perhaps we should say 'dangerous trees' but having noted from the CRT Boaters Report 2024 that £7.3m was spent on "Vegetation Management", the title is probably correct.

Today, while heading downstream and negotiating a tight bend on the River Soar north of Leicester in the vicinity of Watermead just before Birstall Lock, we encountered a pair of former working boats, motor and butty, coming upstream. In order to avoid them and maintain control, we were forced over to the side of the navigation under some overhanging willow - most of which could be brushed aside but among these thinner branches, was one that was at least two inches thick and, having been pushed aside as the boat passed, it sprung back with sufficient force to knock Graham (who was steering) off his feet. Miraculously, apart from a cut and some bruising, no serious damage was done. However this was a potentially very dangerous situation and the outcome could have been much worse. Incidents like this underline the importance of cutting back all vegetation that presents a hazard where it overhangs the navigation.

Especially at bends on river sections.

Sometimes replying on Social Media is just like opening a can of worms, and point can be easily misconstrued, and in no way am I making any form of judgment. Here goes! As I am sure everyone knows CRT, whilst being responsible for navigation, they do not always have the right to enter on land to carry out work and probably gaining access in some cases is quite lengthy. 

Whilst the rules state that boats going upstream should defer to those coming downstream the rules also say that both skippers should take all possible steps to avoid a collision or even an allision. Just as the 'sail before steam' rule is impractical perhaps taking into account the type of the oncoming boat is important. On the Thames I wouldn't try to prove my downstream rights with a trip boat coming upstream. Btw I am not saying you very try to prove a point. A deep drafted pair will need a lot of space and water to navigate when navigating. Btw this is not taking anything away from your needs to move downstream, around a bend where the flow naturally increases. 

 

The situation was less than ideal but in my experience one that is far from unusual. Yes - ideally the vegetation on the banks should be cut back, ideally both boats use sound signals to warn of the approach, but sadly using the horn seems to be going out of favour to the point where I have been shouted for disturbing the peace. 

Thankfully the injuries did not require hospitalisation. Boating, whilst presented as carefree and idyllic, can be dangerous and situations on rivers can change very quickly. None of this is any anyway criticising the actions of anybody - my humble opinion on this is that it's a far from ideal situation, not uncommon, and will no doubt be repeated. 

[ditchcrawler]

8 hours ago, Llamedos said:

I’ve noticed CRT are increasingly using teams of volunteers on work boats for cutting overhanging vegetation. They didn’t used to allow volunteers to do that because of insurance / H&S issues but they’ve obviously had a re-think. It’s good use of work boats ‘sweating assets’ that might otherwise be sitting idle and increases the resource they can throw at the problem. As for the volunteers themselves I take my hat off to them, it’s hard work and not easy in some places. 

There is one who often posts on here 

[Stroudwater1]

1 hour ago, Singing Boater said:

Sometimes replying on Social Media is just like opening a can of worms, and point can be easily misconstrued, and in no way am I making any form of judgment. Here goes! As I am sure everyone knows CRT, whilst being responsible for navigation, they do not always have the right to enter on land to carry out work and probably gaining access in some cases is quite lengthy. 

Whilst the rules state that boats going upstream should defer to those coming downstream the rules also say that both skippers should take all possible steps to avoid a collision or even an allision. Just as the 'sail before steam' rule is impractical perhaps taking into account the type of the oncoming boat is important. On the Thames I wouldn't try to prove my downstream rights with a trip boat coming upstream. Btw I am not saying you very try to prove a point. A deep drafted pair will need a lot of space and water to navigate when navigating. Btw this is not taking anything away from your needs to move downstream, around a bend where the flow naturally increases. 

 

The situation was less than ideal but in my experience one that is far from unusual. Yes - ideally the vegetation on the banks should be cut back, ideally both boats use sound signals to warn of the approach, but sadly using the horn seems to be going out of favour to the point where I have been shouted for disturbing the peace. 

Thankfully the injuries did not require hospitalisation. Boating, whilst presented as carefree and idyllic, can be dangerous and situations on rivers can change very quickly. None of this is any anyway criticising the actions of anybody - my humble opinion on this is that it's a far from ideal situation, not uncommon, and will no doubt be repeated. 

Far from unusual? Meeting 145 foot or more of a motor and Butty! Apart from an event this weekend where we met one pair of Motor and Butty I can’t remember when I last met a pair like that.
 

Incidentally anyone who has seen Nb Alnwick a lovely Davis Northwich trader 62 foot long with her Kelvin will appreciate she too is deep drafted around 3 foot  possibly more deep than the pair. It was a rare event, thankfully, handled by experienced crews.