Rudder stock bearing

[blu]

My surveyor has written this on the report:

The rudder stock bearing was found to have failed and would be advised

to replace ahead of further failure of the bearing race to ensure smooth

steerage:

 

Comments: Recommend the rudder stock top bearing at deck level is replaced

to ensure smooth steerage. 

 

This was 3 months ago and recently, I’ve noticed that steering is getting worse - it seems the tiler is more wobbly and that I don’t do that fine manoeuvring anymore.

 

I’m wondering if I got what the surveyor is recommending right - before buying the parts. I found this blog that seems to explain what I need to do: https://dru-withoutamap.blogspot.com/2021/06/replacing-rudder-stock-bearing-on.html

 

And this is what I’m thinking of buying: 

https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/4-Bolt-Flanged-Bearings/UCFX08-FS-4-Bolt-Square-Flanged-Bearing-with-40mm-Bearing-Insert-96617-p

 

Pictures of the current bearing below

 

Any insights my appreciated.

[ditchcrawler]

The biggest job I find is getting the Swan Neck off

[blu]

Thanks for the input @ditchcrawler  I have been watching some videos and it does seem to be hard

 

But do I have the right idea of the job?

Edited May 16 by blu

[matty40s]

Yes, the top rudder nut bolt without a washer suggests this may be a square rudder shaft top end into the tiller....which may be far easier to remove.

Usually, we have to use heat, pullers and lots of hard banging..(think Thor) to get tillers free from the rudder stock, but our latest paint job had a 40plus year old boat with a square stock come free with a slight knock.

Edited May 16 by matty40s

[LadyG]

I ended up having to replace and redesign after discovering a complete bodge job by previous owner who thought it was a good idea to cut the rudder shaft in half at some time, and  spot weld it back himself, unbelievable.

It cost a fair bit if one includes a haul out, and a few hours of bashing, cutting, welding, a new rudder stock, and a proper fitting. 

When the rudder was out I had a 1inck diam hole drilled so that if there ever was any need, I could retain the thing with a rope. It is of course tremendously heavy.

PS my tiller is quite short, which is a good thing in locks as it can't hit the sides.

Edited May 17 by LadyG

[blackrose]

12 hours ago, blu said:

And this is what I’m thinking of buying: 

https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/4-Bolt-Flanged-Bearings/UCFX08-FS-4-Bolt-Square-Flanged-Bearing-with-40mm-Bearing-Insert-96617-p

 

 

If you're going to all the trouble of replacing it why not buy a stainless bearing. I found one for mine and it was about the same price as the one you've posted. 

 

You still have to lubricate it and oddly I'm not sure if the internals of the bearing itself are stainless, but the more rust free parts you can add when fitting or replacing things the better in my opinion. Those cast flange plates are a pain to clean and paint when they go rusty so do yourself a favour a fit stainless.

 

https://www.bearings-online.co.uk/item/3417/Self-LubeBearings/SUCF208-Stainless-Steel-4-Bolt-Square-Flange-Bearing-Unit.html

 

Ok, it's a bit more expensive but it's got to be worth it.

Edited May 17 by blackrose

[Tony Brooks]

When you do replace it, make sure that the rudders stock is not angled, as many are. If it is, be very careful where you put the grease nipple because in the last bearing I fitted the grease path into the actual tracks and race was via a small hole in the outer track, and if the grease nipples were at the front or back the housing blocked the grease path.  I am not saying all are like this but worth checking when you fit it.

[PaulD]

Have you measured it at 40mm ? Many stocks are 1.5 inch which is different.

[blu]

@matty40s fingers crossed it is indeed an easy one

 

@blackrose thanks for the suggestion. I agree. For the price it's worth going for stainless steel. But I need to check measurements as @PaulD recommended - thanks for the tip and for yours too @Tony Brooks

 

You guys are great 👊

 

I'll do my homework and update 😉

[bizzard]

These self aligning bearings are not really meant for marine use they're machine shop bearings for use in dry conditions. Only boat builders found them an easy way of avoiding using propper plain top bearings which entails accurate alignment of the bearing and skeg socket.

[blackrose]

31 minutes ago, bizzard said:

These self aligning bearings are not really meant for marine use they're machine shop bearings for use in dry conditions. Only boat builders found them an easy way of avoiding using propper plain top bearings which entails accurate alignment of the bearing and skeg socket.

 

But the stainless ones are made for food factories, etc, where machines are regularly wet cleaned and floors hosed down creating spray, so I think they're more likely to withstand exterior application.

[bizzard]

5 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

But the stainless ones are made for food factories, etc, where machines are regularly wet cleaned and floors hosed down creating spray, so I think they're more likely to withstand exterior application.

They must be really well sealed then as stainless steel is not a good bearing metal for bearing tracks and balls.

[blackrose]

7 minutes ago, bizzard said:

They must be really well sealed then as stainless steel is not a good bearing metal for bearing tracks and balls.

 

They do have sealed bearings and that must be the reason that the bearing internals on mine aren't actually stainless.

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

But the stainless ones are made for food factories, etc, where machines are regularly wet cleaned and floors hosed down creating spray, so I think they're more likely to withstand exterior application.

I use to work for Birdseye foods and a little man only job was to go round with a grease gun and give each of those bearings 3 pumps.

We blanked off all the grease nipples on the electric motors because otherwise he filled them full of grease

[David Mack]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I use to work for Birdseye foods and a little man only job was to go round with a grease gun and give each of those bearings 3 pumps.

We blanked off all the grease nipples on the electric motors because otherwise he filled them full of grease

Years ago a boating buddy would regularly get the oil can out of the boat to lubricate paddle gear. I remember him being ecstatic when we came across gear fitted with grease nipples and he could get his grease gun!

[BoatingLifeUpNorth2]

How many times have you seen grease nipples fitted to boat hinges on doors/hatches that have never been used because the boat painter painted over them.😂

[blu]

What's the score stainless vs marine? I lost the count hehehe Which one should I go for?

 

Also, any tips for measuring the diameter. I can measure the outside, of course, but it it the inside that matters, right?!

 

Why do they put almost the same name for something with 1.9mm difference 🤔 

UCFX08-24 or UCFX08  

 

https://bearing-king.co.uk/products/ucfx08-24-bkl-brand-4-bolt-hole-flange-bearing-1-1-2-inch-shaft?_pos=2&_sid=277f24c4d&_ss=r

 

https://bearing-king.co.uk/products/ucfx08-bkl-brand-4-bolt-flange-bearing-40mm-shaft?_pos=1&_sid=277f24c4d&_ss=r

 

I think it's the UCFX08 as FX08 is written on the current one. 

 

 

 

[blackrose]

You need to measure the shaft itself with a pair of Verniers. It might be tricky to get access, but if you're taking the rudder stock out that should be easy enough, just means you can't go anywhere until it arrives, unless you refit it.

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, blackrose said:

You need to measure the shaft itself with a pair of Verniers. It might be tricky to get access, but if you're taking the rudder stock out that should be easy enough, just means you can't go anywhere until it arrives, unless you refit it.

 

As it has to come off anyway, I would take the swan neck off the stock. That should allow the OP to measure the stock diameter just above the bearing.

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

As it has to come off anyway, I would take the swan neck off the stock. That should allow the OP to measure the stock diameter just above the bearing.

Mine has room to measure between the top of the bearing and under the Swan neck.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Mine has room to measure between the top of the bearing and under the Swan neck.

So did mine, but the OPs seems to have a large boss, so if he is not familiar with vernier calipers he may find it easier with the boss out of the way.

[blu]

I'll see if I can measure between the top of the bearing and under the Swan neck as @ditchcrawler is suggesting. If not, I guess I'll have to take it off to measure in order to buy the right one.

 

Wow, why boats have to be so impractical? Why make things simple if they can be complicated 

[Psychalist]

There are many variants of this industrial bearing that, as has been mentioned, is commonly used in indoor rotating applications, probably vertically for things like shafts through walls etc. Using it horizontally in an application where it only rotates a quarter turn and is open to the elements leads to premature failure. Greasing it doesn't necessarily get all the way round.

 

I looked at alternatives such as nylon bearings but the flange mounts are different on those so you'd have to be prepared to remodel the fixing studs to suit. I wasn't, so resigned to another F208 type bearing. I did find an outdoor variant used in agriculture that has extra seals to keep out moisture. Check Simply Bearings in Leigh, which is where I got one, but do double check your measurements for both shaft size, mount hole distance and diameter in either metric or imperial.

 

First thing to check is removal of the swan neck. Even Thor couldn't shift ours, so it required the rudder off to get the swan neck and shaft to a bench where more force could be applied. If your rudder is welded to the stock, the shaft will have to be cut and rewelded, as per LadyG's situation.

 

Good luck with it 🤞

 

[blu]

Many thanks @Psychalist I'm more prone to go for the like for like replacement tbh, things in boats are already not that straight forward as they are LoL.

 

So I'm going to go for either the UCFX08-24 or UCFX08   from my previous post.

 

I'll work on the measurements later in the week and see what I get.

[blu]

Looking at this I think I'll be able to get the measurements before taking the swan neck off.

 

What do you all think? 

 

Thanks