CRT - Roaming Volunteers

[JoeC]

I want this posting to be a positive one so please no comments about how useless the Canal and River Trust are, wasting your money etc. Any posts like this then I may ask a mod to delete it and that would not be Paul Weller. Thank you.

 

 

Apologies for this being a little long.

I have been a continuous cruiser on my narrowboat for three years and during that time I have said things like look at all that rubbish along the towpath, I wish CRT would grease that lock paddle mechanism, look at the poor painting on that water tap post, I wish they would fix that leaking tap, why doesn't somebody trim/cut down that small bush on the wash wall and many more. So I decided to do something about it.

 

I contacted CRT to see how I can help with these kind of things as I cruise along. Their response was that they would love to have me as a volunteer but their current processes do not allow for 'roaming volunteers' - only volunteers who work in a fixed area and thus report into a person in charge for it. Short storey even shorter, I am now part of the CRT National Volunteer Team looking (along with another CC'er) looking at how roaming volunteers can assist CRT in tasks.

 

It is early days but I am on a fact finding mission with you guys 'n gals to get ideas of what can be done, skills that we have out there (plumbing, painting, tree surgeons etc.), whether you would be willing to help with the work and anything else you can think of. I'm not asking for people to sign up as volunteers yet as this point in time is way off.

 

Initially, things like litter picking and small vegetation clearance you may be able to do yourselves without have to become a volunteer (I know some people do this anyway off their own back) but other things CRT would need to be made aware of (so they do not send somebody else out to do the same thing) meaning you would have to be a volunteer and have access to a website/app in order to record what you have done - this would probably be for things like greasing mechanisms, leaking tap fix/replacement, painting.

 

Depending on the task, you may need to complete a quick online risk assessment before you start the work. CRT would have a duty of care and there are guides and videos being produced to aid you with this and you may need to sign these off as having read/viewed before you commence any work for the first time. Again, this is all in discussion. Health & Safety does come into it but that really just means using common sense.

 

So, to cut to the chase.

 

1. Can you think of any small tasks that could be completed as people cruise along?
2. Is this something that you may be interested in volunteering for?
3. What sort of canals/areas do you normally cruise around?
4. What skills do you have?
5. Would you prefer CRT to supply parts and equipment or would you rather you purchased and claimed back? This would require you to sign up as a volunteer and would be done online and require receipts.
6. Any other suggestions?

 

I thank you for reading this far and look forward to your responses.

 

Thank you

Joe

[agg221]

I think this is an excellent idea. A few random thoughts.

 

I have seen some 'unofficial' activity where CRT would definitely not approve of the methods, but everyone would approve of the outcome. I think there are tasks which would easily fit within this remit and could be officially sanctioned in this way, making them a whole lot more likely to get done.

 

I think you do need some kind of list of agreed tasks with some kind of sign off process, to protect both the individual and the network. Some types of activity are blanket positive (clearing up rubbish and disposing of it), others are fairly objective (removing small growth from masonry and ironwork structures) but cutting back vegetation needs some boundaries - saplings growing along the towpath are clearly a good thing to remove, but felling trees in the hedgerows under the auspices of 'cutting back vegetation' needs to be thought through to avoid accidentally sanctioning negative action, however well meaning.

 

One rather specialist skill that would make a lot of impact if still within guidelines is the use of eco-plugs on saplings on the towpath side. @tree monkey may be the only person on CWDF who can comment on current policy here, but I am well aware of the potential impact and the necessary training (which I happen to have, including the watercourse element). The reason it springs to mind is that the equipment is minimal and easily carried on a boat, but the impact of not having to repeatedly address sapling regrowth would be a major cost saving. I can imagine that once contractors have cleared a length (which they are supposed to do) then a SQUEP volunteer could fairly easily address this, if policy allows.

 

Tasks probably need to be achievable by an individual as there is unlikely to be a group. That imposes some boundaries around safety considerations.

Give me a tub of suitable grease and I will happily lubricate the paddles on a flight as I pass through.

Saplings on the towpath or overhanging branches I will happily cut back if I am stationary (or they try and knock my chimney off) but guidelines are needed what to cut, what to leave and on disposal.

Ellesmere Port has produced a very handy set of volunteer maintenance sheet guides. They apply to boat related tasks and set out what is to be done, and how, in very clear terms. Alec Swain is the person behind them and they are an excellent piece of work. Probably worth contacting him, as equivalent job sheets for canal maintenance tasks might make things easier. They would set expected method and standards which would reduce waste of materials and the need to repeat work; they would also minimise the risk of inappropriate or excessive intervention, e.g. cutting down trees which want leaving alone.

 

I think tasks might break into three general categories: 1. 'If you see this, please go ahead and address it according to guidance and report in that it is done, and how long it took (the latter is because at some point, volunteer hours will become important for offsetting against grants as matched funding, and even if that isn't now, it will be likely to be soon enough to matter). 2. 'If you see this, please report it in, offer to address it and once confirmation is received, go ahead and report in once completed'. 3. 'We are addressing this length of canal over the next XX weeks. If you are passing and have some time, please check this list of activities, identify any you can undertake and put your name against them. Once done, please report in as complete'. The third category allows for planned materials, equipment etc. Even things as basic as arranging a skip for disposal of green waste and asking people to cut back overhanging branches up to an inch thick with a pair of loppers during that period and dispose of them in the skip would make an impact.

 

There are approximately 35,000 licenced boats so assuming 20,000 actually leave their mooring, that suggests around 50,000 boaters. If you can reach 10% of them and achieve an hour of volunteer effort each then that's 5,000 hours which is equivalent to 3 full time employees and the impact would be more like 5 full time employees because there is no travel time between tasks - it has to at least help a bit.

 

Alec

[JoeC]

@agg221 Alec, thank you very much for your reply.

 

- Eco-plugs ... I have not heard of this before (have just looked it up though) and will pass that onto CRT.

- Pruning ... CRT have been talking to other organisations (Woodland Trust springs to mind) about what they let their volunteers do off their own back and does not need reporting.  CRT proposed guideline is possibly going to be that people can trim back branches up to 1.5 cm but anything thicker will need reporting to CRT.

- I would imagine that there would be boundaries on what vegetation can be cut back. For instance, a lot of structures are Grade 2 listed so would imagine CRT would want to take extra care with these. However, I will ask CRT.

- I will mention the Alec Swain literature.

 

 

Cheers.

[Jerra]

A thought enters my head about roaming volunteers.  Say you come across the common heap of metal pulled out by magnet fishers and waiting for a passerby to throw it back in.  The obvious thing is to collect it up, but how do you dispose of it?  Similarly with branches etc.

 

I do however think it is a good idea.

Edited May 11 by Jerra

[JoeC]

10 minutes ago, Jerra said:

A thought enters my head about roaming volunteers.  Say you come across the common heap of metal pulled out by magnet fishers and waiting for a passerby to throw it back in.  The obvious thing is to collect it up, but how do you dispose of it?  Similarly with branches etc.

 

I do however think it is a good idea.

I would imagine with the metal that if possible put it into a neat pile and report to CRT using their webpage or phone. If you use the website via your phone then you can easily attach photographs of what you are reporting. Including the What3Words location is very useful.

 

Branches/vegetation ... the general advice is probably going to be put it neatly in a pile out of the way to rot down. This way nature can use it. Much bigger things that cannot easily be moved then again I am guessing it will need reporting to CRT. I have done this for fridges left on the towpath.

 

Contact us form | Canal & River Trust

 

I am not an official CRT representative so am being careful on what I say but I will add these to my CRT list of questions.

 

 

Thanks

 

[tree monkey]

1 hour ago, agg221 said:

One rather specialist skill that would make a lot of impact if still within guidelines is the use of eco-plugs on saplings on the towpath side. @tree monkey may be the only person on CWDF who can comment on current policy here, but I am well aware of the potential impact and the necessary training (which I happen to have, including the watercourse element). The reason it springs to mind is that the equipment is minimal and easily carried on a boat, but the impact of not having to repeatedly address sapling regrowth would be a major cost saving. I can imagine that once contractors have cleared a length (which they are supposed to do) then a SQUEP volunteer could fairly easily address this, if policy allows.

 

Grand idea but I suspect it's a none starter, certification and insurance of some sort would be required, plus the plugs are relatively expensive.

 

Not forgetting the public image of roundup nowadays, the hippies would be out in force.

[dmr]

Its a very good idea, though quite a few boaters having been doing this on an informal basis for years. I know a couple of boaters who carry an oil can and lubricate dry paddle gear.  Cutting back a bit of overhanging vegetation as you enter/leave a lock is quite common. Both with other boaters, and on my own, I have removed three fallen trees blocking the canal in the last two years, though we probably really should have done a risk assessment for this.

Plus pulling out numerous obstructions.

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, JoeC said:

Would you prefer CRT to supply parts and equipment or would you rather you purchased and claimed back? This would require you to sign up as a volunteer and would be done online and require receipts.

Volunteers claiming expenses for materials and equipment used by volunteers would be a nightmare for CRT to administer.

2 hours ago, agg221 said:

2. 'If you see this, please report it in, offer to address it and once confirmation is received, go ahead and report in once completed'.

If I am out boating, I will probably be long gone by the time CRT approval is received, so the task won't get done. This may be a more suitable approach for a volunteer or group of volunteers who regularly walk the same section and can return later to do whatever is necessary. But doesn't CRT already have local 'towpath taskforce' volunteers that operate like this?

[agg221]

12 minutes ago, David Mack said:

If I am out boating, I will probably be long gone by the time CRT approval is received, so the task won't get done. This may be a more suitable approach for a volunteer or group of volunteers who regularly walk the same section and can return later to do whatever is necessary. But doesn't CRT already have local 'towpath taskforce' volunteers that operate like this?

I was vaguely taking that into account. Take vegetation as an example - it could be that guidelines are created that state you can cut back up to 25mm without needing any approval (but please report it so that people know it's done), 25-100mm needs approval and above 100mm is deemed outside of general volunteer scope without appropriate training/tickets/insurance in place. That would mean that, when passing, you could cut off anything up to 25mm that was generally in the way or causing deterioration of the structure. Thicker material might get tackled either by a local taskforce or by a boater who is CCing, moored in the area for a couple of weeks and spots something they propose to deal with in the course of an evening stroll and gets approval to do it before they move on.

 

1 hour ago, tree monkey said:

 

Grand idea but I suspect it's a none starter, certification and insurance of some sort would be required, plus the plugs are relatively expensive.

 

Not forgetting the public image of roundup nowadays, the hippies would be out in force.

The acceptability of glyphosate is certainly an issue. The question of cost is perhaps a balance - if you have woody plants established in masonry or behind piling then options for killing them are limited - the cost of mechanical removal and structural repair is certainly significant, as is the cost of ignoring them and then repairing the structure when it fails. Glyphosate is (or certainly was) the only approved herbicide for use near water and Eco-plugs are certainly much more convenient than spot spraying, particularly in difficult locations. What I was actually contemplating is that there may be a number of boaters who have (or are prepared to obtain) specialist skills with appropriate certification. WRG has a similar situation with its chainsaw operators. Insurance is provided through the organisation but only for suitably qualified people, not the average volunteer. I suspect it's a question of numbers - if there are only one or two people on the whole network with the appropriate qualifications then it isn't worth the effort to set up the insurance, but if there are 10-20 then maybe the impact on management costs, both short and long-term, make it worthwhile. Unless of course someone has a developed a better way to deal with the issue.

 

Alec

 

 

[Rayburn]

Could cruising volunteers also contribute in ways that don't involve physical work? I can think of a couple of possibilities that might be useful:

1. Advocating the canals and the work of CRT to the public at locks etc - spreading the message and distributing CRT leaflets or perhaps by getting feedback. Though engaging with the public may sometimes involve similar risks to working with a chainsaw!
2. Taking and uploading photographs as an aid to monitoring the condition of CRT's assets (this would not just where there seemed to be a problem - it would be every lock, bridge, embankment or cutting every day). Recent advances might mean that the resulting lump of data would be a benefit rather than a burden. For example could cheap photogrammetry turn a large enough dataset into an ever evolving 3D model of every asset and could AI interrogate the model to predict failures?     

Tom

[Gybe Ho]

37 minutes ago, Rayburn said:

Could cruising volunteers also contribute in ways that don't involve physical work? I can think of a couple of possibilities that might be useful:

1. Advocating the canals and the work of CRT to the public at locks etc - spreading the message and distributing CRT leaflets or perhaps by getting feedback. Though engaging with the public may sometimes involve similar risks to working with a chainsaw!
2. Taking and uploading photographs as an aid to monitoring the condition of CRT's assets (this would not just where there seemed to be a problem - it would be every lock, bridge, embankment or cutting every day). Recent advances might mean that the resulting lump of data would be a benefit rather than a burden. For example could cheap photogrammetry turn a large enough dataset into an ever evolving 3D model of every asset and could AI interrogate the model to predict failures?     

Tom

 

I think the CRT would be wary of suggestion (1.) because there is a fine line where private boaters might start articulating private opinions in the name of the CRT.

 

(2) has merit it sounds like an UpMyStreet for the canals. The risk for the CRT is that it generates an excessive workload of cases to review. 

[robtheplod]

What a great idea!  I would think it lends itself to cutting back vegetation/litter picking etc as getting involved in repairs etc would be minefield.... things that can be done without having to contact CRT........  I'm in!

 

My wife and I often say we'd like to be vlockies but not living near a canal its not really practical..... can you be trained to be a mobile vlockie, so if you moor up for a few days you can assist at the nearest lock?  that would be good....

[Woody Too]

I think the idea is grand however not wishing to sound negative I think it's a bit of a non starter as has already been suggested. By the time it takes CRT to approve any action including risk assesments etc its likely the travelling boater will be long gone. 

  What could work would be a easy and simple way of reporting any issues sighted on boating travels that if any approved 'Roaming volunteers' could have a more direct contact to a local area team leader or supervisor and could liaise directly to report issues quickly for CRT to deal with rather than the usual process of banging your head against a brick wall with CRT customer services as is the normal starting point for the general public. So a approved group of mobile volunteer eyes on the ground reporting issues with direct contact to the relevent area teams and perhaps also pointing out later on a return trip if the repair has actually been carried out. 

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, Woody Too said:

What could work would be a easy and simple way of reporting any issues sighted on boating travels that if any approved 'Roaming volunteers' could have a more direct contact to a local area team leader or supervisor and could liaise directly to report issues quickly for CRT to deal with rather than the usual process of banging your head against a brick wall with CRT customer services as is the normal starting point for the general public.

 

I think that's partly the idea of the forthcoming CRT app.  From experience, direct email to the relevant region works much better than trying to explain to a call centre operator who doesn't even work for CRT.  Your actual report can be forwarded exactly as you sent it to the relevant person, rather than a rephrased message.

 

The very best way involves getting the ambulance call centre operator to get the CRT out of hours duty manager to directly ring you at midnight, but I've only needed to do that once!

[Woody Too]

I hadn't realised a CRT app was on the way but yes, that was exactly what I was thinking. It would perhaps also show if the issue had previously been reported by anybody else before and the date it was originally reported.  That in itself would also perhaps highlight if the issue was still outstanding after an unreasonable amount of time and maybe give CRT a incentive to clear the publicly visible faults on the app that were outstanding. 

Edited July 3 by Woody Too

[Anonathy]

8 hours ago, Woody Too said:

I hadn't realised a CRT app was on the way but yes, that was exactly what I was thinking. It would perhaps also show if the issue had previously been reported by anybody else before and the date it was originally reported.  That in itself would also perhaps highlight if the issue was still outstanding after an unreasonable amount of time and maybe give CRT a incentive to clear the publicly visible faults on the app that were outstanding. 

 

Call me cynical but I very much doubt they'll include anything in the app that allows you to keep track of their maintenance failings.

Edited July 4 by Anonathy

[JoeC]

Thanks for the further suggestions.

I am still working with CRT to make roaming volunteers a thing. It has been trialled with somebody replacing/repairing water taps but showed up some issues which are being looked into.

 

Joe

[koukouvagia]

I periodically trim the foliage that obscures our local winding hole sign.  Not that it helps much because thoughtless people still moor in the middle of the winding hole.

[Woody Too]

8 hours ago, Anonathy said:

 

Call me cynical but I very much doubt they'll include anything in the app that allows you to keep track of their maintenance failings.

Yes, sadly I do agree with you 

[MtB]

4 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

I periodically trim the foliage that obscures our local winding hole sign.  Not that it helps much because thoughtless people still moor in the middle of the winding hole.

 

I wonder if a "Winding Hole - NO MOORING" sign might be moor effective...

 

 

[koukouvagia]

12 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I wonder if a "Winding Hole - NO MOORING" sign might be moor effective...

 

 

That's precisely what it says.   Frequently ignored. 

[MtB]

24 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

That's precisely what it says.   Frequently ignored. 

 

I see you deliberately ignored my feeble pun

 

[ditchcrawler]

56 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I see you deliberately ignored my feeble pun

 

Must say I thought it feeble as well 🥰

[cuthound]

On 04/07/2025 at 15:08, koukouvagia said:

I periodically trim the foliage that obscures our local winding hole sign.  Not that it helps much because thoughtless people still moor in the middle of the winding hole.

 

I always make a point of coming into contact with boats moored in winding holes when winding even when there is plenty of room, only gently mind you.

 

It often results in the owner coming out, all guns blazing, who then back down and claim they didn't realise it was a winding hole when confronted with the evidence.

 

Perhaps CRT should insist on a recent eye test as well and insurance and a BSS certificate before issuing a licence.

Edited July 6 by cuthound
phat phingers

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

40 minutes ago, cuthound said:

always make a point of coming into contact with boats moored in winding holes when winding even when there is plenty of room, only gently mind you.

 

It often results in the owner coming out, all guns blazing, who then back down and claim they didn't realise it was a winding hole when confronted with the evidence.

😂 😂

 

I was once given that treatment, although they didn’t actually make contact but revved and  swore a lot,

top of Foxton Locks,

parked up with my arse just hanging in to the hole,

two short boats made a fuss out of principle,

 

I think I replied with some sarcasm about turning a 50’ boat in a 70’ winding hole does take some practice. 
 

Yes, hands up, I was in the wrong (just a bit), but still reckon 70’ boat would have managed to turn 😃