'Water freedom' filtration system

[Epikur]

Hello, I want to install a 5 step filtration system so I can use canal water on my narrowboat. What type of tradesperson could do this for me? Do I need to source all the equipment and they will install it for me? Does it need to be done in a marina? I live in London. Thank you!

[Tony Brooks]

The first question to ask, and have you even asked it and come to an answer, is how much electricity will it use each day and if you are not on a shoreline are you able to put that much back into the batteries plus about 30% more, and provide your other electrical needs. The 30% more relates to lead acid batteries and if you have lead acid batteries the rated charging source output is an applauding guide to how long recharging will take.

 

Next, have you looked at the actual output of such systems (gallons/litres per hour). It is often very low.

 

Finally, what are you going to use this water for? If drinking, cooking, or teeth cleaning, I would be very wary about using the output from canal water. There is more to making canal water potable than removing viruses, bacteria and suspended matter. You have to think about medicine residues, industrial solvents and such like. Remember ocean water, where such things are aimed at, is probably far cleaner to start with than London canal water.

 

If you want to minimise your visits to a water point and if you have a fresh water flush toilet that will happily use canal water for the cost of an extra pump and a few fittings.

 

Edited to add. I have been Googling to try to find the electricity consumption for 5 stage filter systems and that is notable by the lack of information for the sub £300 types. One says it needs mains electricity, so if not on a shoreline or generator you may need to run an inverter as well.

Edited May 2 by Tony Brooks

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Some previous discussions to read.

 

 

[MtB]

32 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Hello, I want to install a 5 step filtration system so I can use canal water on my narrowboat.

 

The fact that almost no-one else on the canal system does this suggests there are some major problems with your plan. 

 

Have you checked out why these systems are not routinely installed on all canal boats? 

 

 

[Epikur]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

The fact that almost no-one else on the canal system does this suggests there are some major problems with your plan. 

 

Have you checked out why these systems are not routinely installed on all canal boats? 

 

 

Ah, well when I was boat hunting I saw it on quite a few! Maybe more so in London as I think the water sources along the tow path are pretty poor 

[jonesthenuke]

Consider that the material dredged from canals in urban centres often has to be disposed of as contaminated waste due to earlier industrial usage of the area. Why would you want to drink this water even after filtration?

Edited May 2 by jonesthenuke
Typo!

[Gybe Ho]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

The fact that almost no-one else on the canal system does this suggests there are some major problems with your plan. 

 

Have you checked out why these systems are not routinely installed on all canal boats? 

 

 

 

Perhaps the OP wants to save on NHS prescription charges by ingesting a free random cocktail of prescription drugs daily from canal water.

[Epikur]

3 minutes ago, jonesthenuke said:

Consider that the material dredged from canals in urban centres often has to be disposed of as contaminated waste due to earlier industrial usage of the area. Why would you want to drink this water even after filtration?

Planning to buy bottled water to drink, but use it for showering, washing up and cooking

[Tony Brooks]

I suspect that the OP would find that when fed urban canal water, that any life given for the cartridges would turn out to be a work of fiction, requiring far more frequent replacement/flushing. The ongoing cost of that needs considering.

[magnetman]

One would probably need to have a proper sand filter system like swimming pools use and/or a settling tank to take out heavy sediment before it hits the element filters.

 

Loads of people do it on the River and I know someone who had his system tested and it was cleaner than tap water. 

 

Not sure about canal water. I suppose one could time it and extract water at night after it has settled. When I lived on Limehouse cut it was sometimes as clear as a swimming pool but if a Boat went past it was seriously mucky so would definitely want a proper sand filter. 

 

 

I have not done it but I think a  beer keg might be good for a DIY sand filter. 

 

 

Two beer kegs on the cabin top.

 

First one empty fed by a bilge pump from the canal and a timer. Leave water in this for 24 hours to settle heavy silt  then draw from part way up then refill. Periodic removal of silt buildup ideally have a decent sized drain in the bottom with a tap. 

 

Second beer keg arranged as a sand filter then on to the other filters and UV lamp possibly by gravity. 

 

Could work but limited throughput of water about 30 litres a day assuming a settling time of 24 hours and using half a keg each time. It would probably extend the life of the disposable filters though. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2 by magnetman

[Stroudwater1]

Interesting to hear of other boaters in London using this. A post from one would be useful. Don’t forget that it’s quite hard not to get water from a shower in your mouth, and cooking will probably kill bugs but not filter out canal toxins. Washing up will leave residues too I expect? 
 

Are you sure you aren’t seeing water filters that filter water from the boats water tank? I believe that’s quite common (though rather pointless usually) 

[magnetman]

Just now, Stroudwater1 said:

Interesting to hear of other boaters in London using this. A post from one would be useful. Don’t forget that it’s quite hard not to get water from a shower in your mouth, and cooking will probably kill bugs but not filter out canal toxins. Washing up will leave residues too I expect? 
 

Are you sure you aren’t seeing water filters that filter water from the boats water tank? I believe that’s quite common (though rather pointless usually) 

 

There is someone on fb marketing a product with about 4 or 5 element filters and a uv lamp plus I think they night have a small RO and high pressure pump. 

 

Not a good idea to drink reverse osmosis water as it removes minerals so can cause problems if routinely used as drinking water.

 

OP is looking at drinking bottled water which is sensible. 

 

Another good thing for any sort of water filter is chorine tablets like aquatabs as they wipe out nasty parasites. 

 

 

[jonesthenuke]

25 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Planning to buy bottled water to drink, but use it for showering, washing up and cooking

Why is cooking with it OK if it's potentially contaminated? I can see showering, toilet flushing etc is ok.

31 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

Perhaps the OP wants to save on NHS prescription charges by ingesting a free random cocktail of prescription drugs daily from canal water.

And the cocktail of viruses? It reminds me that during covid one of the monitoring systems was to look for virus DNA in waste water systems (and canals are not free from untreated waste)

[magnetman]

I find it funny when a product is marketed as 'kills 99% of germs and viruses'. I would sort of prefer if they did the lot !

[Wafi]

Does the proposed system work on sea water? If it can't remove sodium chloride, what other dissolved salts and toxins (including heavy metals) is it also letting through?

 

A pure filtration and UV-sterilisation system sounds fine if your water source is an upland stream where the likely pollutants are things like manure and dead sheep. In an urban waterway that you know to be polluted by large quantities of grey water from other boats, some raw sewage, runoff from streets, oil and diesel, industrial effluent (legitimate and illegal) and who knows what else, the only certainty is that, without testing the output, you have no idea what you're washing your dishes and cooking your food in.

[magnetman]

I wonder if there is any public data regarding typical contents of canal water in an urban area. It could be quite an interesting bit of information. 

 

Someone will have done the tests but are the results public or withheld. 

 

 

 

There was a cyanide spill in a canal in the west midlands which took/is taking a long time to clean up. There must have been countless accidental and deliberate small spills of various compounds over two centuries which were never noticed so the cocktail especially in the silt must be very interesting. 

 

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

I find it funny when a product is marketed as 'kills 99% of germs and viruses'. I would sort of prefer if they did the lot !

 

Ah now I heard the story behind that. Domestos (and all bleach ) does kill 100% of all know germs and viruses apparently. But since the Trades Description Act came in they changed it to 99% in case someone, somewhere comes up with one it doesn't kill and they get a drubbing in the courts, or in the Court of Public Opinion. 

 

 

[alias]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

I wonder if there is any public data regarding typical contents of canal water in an urban area. It could be quite an interesting bit of information. 

 

Someone will have done the tests but are the results public or withheld. 

 

There was a cyanide spill in a canal in the west midlands which took/is taking a long time to clean up. There must have been countless accidental and deliberate small spills of various compounds over two centuries which were never noticed so the cocktail especially in the silt must be very interesting. 

 

 

 

The Environment Agency make the data they collect available, for example for Regents Canal here:   https://environment.data.gov.uk/catchment-planning/WaterBody/GB70610510

 

However I see that their testing is far from exhaustive at that location, and the report doesn't include testing for lead which this article claims to be far higher then permissible for drinking water: https://islingtonnow.co.uk/canals-ignored-in-city-hall-waterway-improvement-plans/

 

There is an overall search page for their water monitoring data archive, but it doesn't look very user friendly:  https://environment.data.gov.uk/water-quality/view/explore

 

 

Edited May 2 by alias

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, MtB said:

Ah now I heard the story behind that. Domestos (and all bleach ) does kill 100% of all know germs and viruses apparently. But since the Trades Description Act came in they changed it to 99% in case someone, somewhere comes up with one it doesn't kill and they get a drubbing in the courts, or in the Court of Public Opinion. 

 

Or, out of the billions in a toilet, they 'miss' one and therefore do not get 100% (was the story I heard)

 

 

On average, toilet bowls harbour 3.2 million bacteria per square inch. This includes the germs that have adhered to the bowl’s surface and those found in the dirty toilet water.

[ditchcrawler]

I wounder how many people with these filters regularly have the output tested?  I have read several cases of people having them.

Just like under sink filters, how many take care to replace them at the correct interval. We did tests when I worked offshore and that should that they are quite a good breeding round for bugs if left too long.

[cuthound]

4 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I suspect that the OP would find that when fed urban canal water, that any life given for the cartridges would turn out to be a work of fiction, requiring far more frequent replacement/flushing. The ongoing cost of that needs considering.

 

When I was a maintenance technician for BT we used to use a Permutit water de-ioniser to make de-ionised water to top up the lead acid batteries.

 

We got about 20% of the amount of water suggested by the manufacturer, so I called them in to investigate the de-ioniser, thinking that it was faulty.

 

They tested the London tap water and said the de-ioniser was working as expected, but the high level of suspended material in the London tap water was clogging up the filters prematurely.

 

I imagine the London canal water contains far more suspended material than the London tap water.

[LadyG]

When I see salmon in the Thames, that might qualify as " good", a laymans term, not a scientific term.

When I was last in London turbidity was so high no salmon or trout could survive.

As for canal water having any ' good' result, that is unbelievable, its certainly not good in layman's terms, in my terms its heavily polluted.

The standard test for water fit for drinking includes E Coli, that is indicator of faecal contamination, of course we are not being shown those results.

As for heavy metals and so on, I sure the bed is contaminated with industrial waste. No doubt selective sampling and selective testing could come up with results of 'good' if one paid enough people to develop enough tests and set the bar high enough. But no one would actually drink the stuff.

Every time I come on board after handling ropes I wash my hands with soap and water, then dry with kitchen roll. If I wanted to spread nasties over my boat and possibly end up with intestinal disorder, or Weil's  disease, I would not bother. 

I dont use tea towels very often, certainly not twice. Paper towels are used in the food industry to prevent the spread of bacteria, viruses and any other contaminant, there is no reason why this practice is not adopted in the home.

Edited May 2 by LadyG

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I wounder how many people with these filters regularly have the output tested?  I have read several cases of people having them.

Just like under sink filters, how many take care to replace them at the correct interval. We did tests when I worked offshore and that should that they are quite a good breeding round for bugs if left too long.

I would say its a toss up between None and Fek all

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

We did tests when I worked offshore and that should that they are quite a good breeding round for bugs if left too long.

 

Which is what a Thames Water survey found years ago when they tested water quality in homes with water filters. In many cases, the tap water was "cleaner" because the filters were breeding bugs.

[Jerra]

4 hours ago, magnetman said:

I wonder if there is any public data regarding typical contents of canal water in an urban area. It could be quite an interesting bit of information. 

 

Someone will have done the tests but are the results public or withheld. 

 

 

 

There was a cyanide spill in a canal in the west midlands which took/is taking a long time to clean up. There must have been countless accidental and deliberate small spills of various compounds over two centuries which were never noticed so the cocktail especially in the silt must be very interesting. 

 

 

A quick google (albeit from the AI summary) says about london canals:

 

London's canals and waterways can contain various heavy metals and other toxins, including arsenic, cadmium, lead, mercury, chromium, copper, nickel, and zinc.