Need Help Finishing My Widebeam

[Steve_]

Hi all,

 

I’m having a widebeam built and fitted out by a boat builder in Nottinghamshire.

 

It’s been a bit of a bumpy ride and we’re now at the point where the working relationship is really strained, so I’m considering taking the boat away before the fit-out is finished.  I’m not quite sure of the best way to go about it. I’ll need somewhere to move the boat to — ideally somewhere affordable, where I can complete the fit-out (or get someone else to do it).

 

The boat is ultimately headed for London, but I’m flexible about where it goes in the meantime. It doesn’t currently have an engine and the hull still needs blacking, but there’s a chance I can get the builder to do those bits before I move it.

 

So I’m looking for advice on:

1. Any boatyards or moorings (preferably low-cost) that could take a boat of this size for a fit-out.
2. Somewhere that can handle a lift-in for a widebeam of this size (unfortunately I don’t know the exact weight at this point).
3. General tips if you’ve taken over a build mid-way through — anything you wish you’d known?
4. Can anyone can recommend a reliable (and ideally affordable) person or team who’d be up for taking over a widebeam fit-out — the first fix is already done.

 

I’d really appreciate any help or pointers. Thanks in advance!

[Alan de Enfield]

7 hours ago, Steve_ said:

Any boatyards or moorings (preferably low-cost) that could take a boat of this size for a fit-out.

 

You don't say what size it is.

 

 

If you do remove it - make sure you are on good enough terms  with the builder to ensure you get the RCR paperwork completed to Annex III level for the state of build.

 

If you don't you will likely have problems to find any commercial builder / fit out company to take on the 'legal' role as builder as they will be taking responsibility for the build (so far) being compliant.

The second reason being that you may/will have difficulty in 'putting it in use' or selling it, as it will need a Post Construction Assesement (PCA) at a cost of around £6000.

 

It maybe an idea to take advice from the Citizens Advice, or even better a marine specialist Solicitor - it will cost but it could save you £1000's in the long run.

 

You will get so much conflicting advice from Social media and you will not know what is good, or bad advice.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

"Thats odd - my internet friends who were constitutional experts 9 months ago are now experts in marine law."

 

 

 

 

Edited April 5 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you do remove it - make sure you are on good enough terms  with the builder to ensure you get the RCR paperwork completed to Annex III level for the state of build.

 

Pretty sure I've read on here that the Annex III thing was an RCD term which changed when RCR superseded it. Something similar still exists but not called "Annex III". Is that correct? 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Pretty sure I've read on here that the Annex III thing was an RCD term which changed when RCR superseded it. Something similar still exists but not called "Annex III". Is that correct? 

 

I think you may be confusing Annex III with the 'old' Annex IIIA

 

Annex III allows the boat to be sold for further completion, but must be built to the RCR (or have a PCA before use)

Annex IIIA was interpreted as allowing the boat to continue to be finished and is the source of the '5 year rule'

 

Due to the lack of definition of ‘partly completed’ it meant the Annex lll(a) could be issued repeatedly if the narrow boat changed hands several times but never completed. This had a potential loophole whereby the narrowboat was never fully compliant with the Directive.

 

“Where a watercraft is partly completed if it is not capable of being used for sport and leisure purposes (put into service). The manufacturer intends there to be further construction work to make it capable of being used. The watercraft should be accompanied by a declaration by the manufacturer or importer with the information required in Annex III. So a partly completed craft can be put on the market but cannot be put into service. Clause 2 is clear such watercraft may be placed on the market but only complete watercraft (Clause 1) can be placed on the market and/or put into service. It would be an offence to put into service (use) a part completed watercraft.

If a watercraft is intended to be used, ie if it can be put into service, it is as “complete” as the manufacturer intends it to be. At that stage, the craft must meet all the applicable essential health and safety requirements of the Directive and have a Declaration of Conformity with the information required in Annex IV, technical documentation with the documents listed in Annex IX and CE marking. This applies to all economic operators and private persons, subject to some exemptions.”

[MtB]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Annex III allows the boat to be sold for further completion, but must be built to the RCR (or have a PCA before use)

Annex IIIA was interpreted as allowing the boat to continue to be finished and is the source of the '5 year rule'

 

 

Ah yes, that'll be it. Thanks!

 

Is the '5 year rule' obsolete too now? All new boats have to be RCR compliant including self-build, I think? 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

This applies to all economic operators and private persons, subject to some exemptions.”

 

Answers my last question!

 

 

So instead, what exemptions? I find myself wondering....

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

 

The definition of 'self build' (which has not changed) has been pointed out that it means the majority of the boat including the hull, so very very very few steel narrowboats can fall under the DIY build rules.

 

So the 5 year rule is :

 

 

If a craft is entirely built (including the shell) by a DIY boatbuilder only for their personal use it is excluded from the RCR provided it is not placed on the market within 5 years of its first use as a boat. The boat does not have to be complete for the 5 year period to start, but does have to have been used as a boat (e.g. cruised on a waterway).

This '5-year rule' does not apply to craft that have been completed by the first owner from a shell or sailaway, as such craft have to be assessed under Recreational Craft Regulations.

 

So, for example, gobbyho's boat, will not be classed as a DIY boat, and therefore it cannot be put into service/use until it complies with the RCR 

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

So, for example, gobbyho's boat, will not be classed as a DIY boat, and therefore it cannot be put into service/use until it complies with the RCR 

 

CRT seem not to accept this though, and appear willing to issue a licence on a half-built self fit-out. Therefore (over here in the real world) it CAN be put into service/use before complying with RCR. 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

CRT seem not to accept this though, and appear willing to issue a licence on a half-built self fit-out. Therefore (over here in the real world) it CAN be put into service/use before complying with RCR. 

 

A lot of things 'can be done' that are illegal.

 

As (I think) you said previously C&RT have no idea what is going on around them and probably wouldn't know the RCR if hit in the face with it.

 

It does not stop the 'person' putting the boat into service, potentially being requested to appear at court ! 

[GUMPY]

12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It does not stop the 'person' putting the boat into service, potentially being requested to appear at court ! 

 

I wonder how many times this has happened?

🫣🥱

[MtB]

54 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

It does not stop the 'person' putting the boat into service, potentially being requested to appear at court !

 

Given there is NO enforcement, as far as risks in life are concerned this seems like one worth taking.....

 

 

 

[David Mack]

But presumably a sailaway shell with minimum services etc. can be sold (with full RCR documentation) and put into use, on the basis that it is as “complete” as the manufacturer intends it to be - the original sailaway builder is surely not concerned what the subsequent purchaser may do in the way of further fitting out. And that would be entirely legal.

.

[LadyG]

I'm a bit confused here, I thought that a sailaway had an engine, prop and transmission?

Maybe it was a bare hull, and progress has been unsatisfactory.

I would look for a surveyor to step in, to oversee the work, yes there will be additional costs, but I can see this situation going downhill fast.

The hull should be cleaned before the priming and the coating chosen. If the OP is not well versed in these matters it will best to take advice, the surveyor should help. He may know of available facilities.

Self fitouts are not easy and not cheap.  

Edited April 5 by LadyG

[MtB]

41 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'm a bit confused here, I thought that a sailaway had an engine, prop and transmission?

Maybe it was a bare hull, and progress has been unsatisfactory.

I would look for a surveyor to step in, to oversee the work, yes there will be additional costs, but I can see this situation going downhill fast.

The hull should be cleaned before the priming and the coating chosen. If the OP is not well versed in these matters it will best to take advice, the surveyor should help. He may know of available facilities.

Self fitouts are not easy and not cheap.  

 

I long for the good ol' days when one could launch a lifeboat hull and spent as long as one liked putting a top on it and fitting it out and no-one bothered about RCR or BSS because neither existed. And very few people died. 

 

 

[bizzard]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I long for the good ol' days when one could launch a lifeboat hull and spent as long as one liked putting a top on it and fitting it out and no-one bothered about RCR or BSS because neither existed. And very few people died. 

 

 

And me. Smooth quiet petrol engine. Gas bottle standing next to the cooking stove, handy to turn off at the bottle after cooking or boiling the kettle. Leaky decks, rain water dripping into yer gob whilst asleep in a bunk.

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Leaky decks, rain water dripping into yer gob whilst asleep in a bunk.

 

Make the other half sleep that side, lol!!

 

 

[Steve_]

"You don't say what size it is." Haa, yes. It's 57x11'

[Steve_]

As suggested it would probably be good to get a surveyor involved. Does anyone have recommendations for the Nottinghamshire area?

[Steve_]

Thanks so much for all the insights on compliance and Annex III — that's been really helpful and I'll bare this in mind.

I’d love to get back to the practical side of things — does anyone know of:

• Any affordable boatyards or moorings that can take a 57x11 widebeam for a fit-out (ideally somewhere with crane/lift-in access)?

• A reliable person or team who takes on widebeam fit-outs (it’s first-fixed)?

• A surveyor familiar with this kind of project who could help oversee or advise on the rest of the build?

Open to anywhere from Nottinghamshire down toward London, or even further if it’s a good option.

Really appreciate any names or recommendations — thanks again!

[LadyG]

I've used Richard Free, I believe he is a surveyor, as well as Gas BSC  Examiner, but you might need to use Google to find others.

You could try ringing boatyards and asking for recommendations, I think it going to be hard work ....

Edited April 7 by LadyG

[MtB]

18 minutes ago, Steve_ said:

Any affordable boatyards or moorings that can take a 57x11 widebeam for a fit-out (ideally somewhere with crane/lift-in access)?

 

Requiring "affordable" is going a bit far...

 

Thames and Kennet Marina at Reading have a cradle crane that can lift a boat this size off lorries and into the water. When I moored there a shell about the same size turned up next to me and they proceeded to fit it out in the water and I don't think the management minded. They made a terrible racket all summer but I didn't live aboard at the time so wasn't too bothered.

 

 

 

 

[LadyG]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Requiring "affordable" is going a bit far...

 

Thames and Kennet Marina at Reading have a cradle crane that can lift a boat this size off lorries and into the water. When I moored there a shell about the same size turned up next to me and they proceeded to fit it out in the water and I don't think the management minded. They made a terrible racket all summer but I didn't live aboard at the time so wasn't too bothered.

 

 

 

 

Hes 'up North'

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Hes 'up North'

 

And?

 

30 minutes ago, Steve_ said:

Open to anywhere from Nottinghamshire down toward London, or even further if it’s a good option.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

On 05/04/2025 at 13:10, Steve_ said:

It doesn’t currently have an engine

 

As it doesn't have an engine, presumably the only way you are going to 'take it away' is via a crane and a truck.

Does the builder have lift facilities to get it onto a truck (what happens if he refuses to help when you have 'upset him' by taking the boat away ?)

 

You will then need to go to a yard that can not only 'fit you in / do the work, but can lift the boat off the truck - not all boatyards will manage to lift a widebeam.

 

Are things really that bad that you are prepared to take on £1000s of extra costs taking it away from the builder ?

[MtB]

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Are things really that bad that you are prepared to take on £1000s of extra costs taking it away from the builder ?

 

These are my thoughts too.

 

How about agreeing with the builder he fits the engine and launches it, then you cruise it away to somewhere else to be finished? 

 

 

 

 

I guess it will need ballasting too.

 

 

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

These are my thoughts too.

 

How about agreeing with the builder he fits the engine and launches it, then you cruise it away to somewhere else to be finished? 

 

 

 

 

I guess it will need ballasting too.

 

 

Would it be possible to buy a tonne or more coal.

Fill the water and diesel tanks

I know my boat was a bit tippy when i bought it, but its now stable, due to 'stuff'.

 

 

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

And?

 

 

Im assuming he does not want to use road transport.

The boat is not ready to move on the water. 

Edited April 7 by LadyG