Help sought from a Chinese student

[China wang]

Dear all, I am a student hailing from China, currently deeply immersed in research on British canals. Regrettably, the combination of my intense academic schedule and financial constraints has made it impossible for me to travel to the archives in the UK to gather first - hand materials for my study. In China, the field of canal research is still in its infancy, with only a handful of scholars engaged in this area. Therefore, I am eager to introduce the detailed circumstances of British canals to the Chinese academic community. However, the absence of primary - source materials has become a major obstacle. I sincerely wonder if any of you kind - hearted friends could share with me any canal - related materials at your disposal. Your generosity would be highly appreciated and of great significance to my research. Thank you very much!

[David Schweizer]

Suspect post. This does not read like someone writing in a second language. Reported

 

[China wang]

2 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Suspect post. This does not read like someone writing in a second language. Reported

 

However, I am truly a Chinese student. I am from Liaocheng University in Shandong Province. Liaocheng is also a very famous town located along the canal. I have a deep love for canals and am extremely eager to learn about canals around the world.

但是我真的是一名中国学生，我来自山东省聊城大学，这里也是一个非常著名的运河沿岸的城镇，我非常喜欢运河，更想了解世界运河！🤣

[Tam & Di]

8 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Suspect post. This does not read like someone writing in a second language. Reported

 

It displays a remarkable lack of ability to seek such information, even if true, given how much is available on a quick search of google.

[Athy]

Welcome to the forum, Ching. I wish my Chinese was as good as your English! What particular aspects of our canals do you seek help with?

[1st ade]

13 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

It displays a remarkable lack of ability to seek such information, even if true, given how much is available on a quick search of google.

Google may not be (freely) available in their home country. But access to CWF is...

[LadyG]

Hi there, the forum will accept your input and provide the information, once it has all calmed down. Welcome to the United Kingdom, which is rarely 

United

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, China wang said:

Dear all, I am a student hailing from China, currently deeply immersed in research on British canals. Regrettably, the combination of my intense academic schedule and financial constraints has made it impossible for me to travel to the archives in the UK to gather first - hand materials for my study. In China, the field of canal research is still in its infancy, with only a handful of scholars engaged in this area. Therefore, I am eager to introduce the detailed circumstances of British canals to the Chinese academic community. However, the absence of primary - source materials has become a major obstacle. I sincerely wonder if any of you kind - hearted friends could share with me any canal - related materials at your disposal. Your generosity would be highly appreciated and of great significance to my research. Thank you very much!

 

I also find this odd. The OP seems to want forum members to give him remote access to SOURCE materials, so even if anyone has any, they will have to scan them and send them to China or photocopy and post to China. This costs money, so I ask is this a reasonable request?

 

I know several members have access to and know their way around historic archives, but we are given no idea about the broad topic areas the OP wants to learn about. If they are after historic canal planes and acts of parliament that got the canals built, it would be a waste of time, money and effort, to send him details of historic craft (boats). Likewise, if one sent him stuff about leisure use on canals it would be a waste of time.

 

I very much doubt he wants personal that several here could simply type and email unless they also include the source materials they base their input upon, and that probably rules out oral history that is still held by some, even if it is second or third hand.

 

I think the OP needs to be far more specific about what he wants and address the cost and time issues. Would he find links to existing websites acceptable or useful?

 

[Pluto]

1 hour ago, China wang said:

Dear all, I am a student hailing from China, currently deeply immersed in research on British canals. Regrettably, the combination of my intense academic schedule and financial constraints has made it impossible for me to travel to the archives in the UK to gather first - hand materials for my study. In China, the field of canal research is still in its infancy, with only a handful of scholars engaged in this area. Therefore, I am eager to introduce the detailed circumstances of British canals to the Chinese academic community. However, the absence of primary - source materials has become a major obstacle. I sincerely wonder if any of you kind - hearted friends could share with me any canal - related materials at your disposal. Your generosity would be highly appreciated and of great significance to my research. Thank you very much!

I have worked with Chinese heritage professionals and book publishers regarding the Grand Canal, visiting Yangzhou and Nanjing. I had arranged to visit your university a few years ago, but Covid stopped my trip. I have looked at the differences between Europe and China with regard to canal development, in particular how locks were used, though more research would be useful.

[Tam & Di]

1 hour ago, China wang said:

However, I am truly a Chinese student. I am from Liaocheng University in Shandong Province. Liaocheng is also a very famous town located along the canal. I have a deep love for canals and am extremely eager to learn about canals around the world.

但是我真的是一名中国学生，我来自山东省聊城大学，这里也是一个非常著名的运河沿岸的城镇，我非常喜欢运河，更想了解世界运河！🤣

 

 I'm sorry for doubting you, but the formatting of your mail is slightly odd, and gives the appearance of what is referred to as a 'cut and paste' as it is strips of white text on a slightly grey background.

I am aware of a Chinese academic interest in canals - colleague David Edwards May has just had a book "China's Grand Canal" written in conjunction with Professor Li Denan of Huaiyin University published by Jiangsu Phoenix Fine Arts Publishing.

Edited March 4, 2025 by Tam & Di
spelling!

[China wang]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

Welcome to the forum, Ching. I wish my Chinese was as good as your English! What particular aspects of our canals do you seek help with?

Thank you, my British friend. Currently, I'm trying to conduct research on the Bridgewater Canal, which is one of the earliest artificial canals in the UK. However, I've found that most of the materials about it are stored in some archives and there are no electronic resources available. This is also the case with the materials related to the Duke. I wonder if you have such materials. Thank you so much!

[Gybe Ho]

1 hour ago, China wang said:

Therefore, I am eager to introduce the detailed circumstances of British canals to the Chinese academic community.

 

 

I feel you need to focus your research on something more specific, the "British Canals" is a subject of near infinite scope.

 

For me the most interesting thing about the British canals is what they say about the national culture that built them. The Britain of 250 years ago was a "can-do" a nation, whereas today as you have probably noticed, Britain is a "cannot-do" nation.

 

So there is an avenue for academic research, "Do the British canals indicate Britain once had the positive national culture that China has today?".  

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, China wang said:

Thank you, my British friend. Currently, I'm trying to conduct research on the Bridgewater Canal, which is one of the earliest artificial canals in the UK. However, I've found that most of the materials about it are stored in some archives and there are no electronic resources available. This is also the case with the materials related to the Duke. I wonder if you have such materials. Thank you so much!

 

I very much doubt that @Athy holds any historical archives apart from, perhaps, information gathered personally while boating - photos and such like. 

 

The Bridgewater canal is now owned by Peel Holdings (https://www.peel.co.uk/)  so they may have something, but the Bridgewater Canal was a private venture by the Duke of Bridgewater, so the archives might be held privately by his successors. However, the title is now extinct, so they are more likely held in a local authority archive or museum along with many other historical documents. You could start with https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/448/archives_and_local_history/7377/search_the_archives_catalogue  Hopefully a member will be along to give you a more authoritative pointer to where they are, but they may be dispersed in a number of different places.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, China wang said:

Dear all, I am a student hailing from China, currently deeply immersed in research on British canals.

 

Good joke, well done! 

[David Mack]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

You could start with https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/448/archives_and_local_history/7377/search_the_archives_catalogue 

This and other online catalogues will give some idea of the documents which may be available. But few of the documents themselves will have been digitised, and there will be other collection, particularly those in private hands, where there is no publicly available catalogue. There really is no substitute for visiting the archives in person and copying relevant material.

[China wang]

16 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

我觉得你需要把你的研究集中在更具体的东西上，“不列颠运河”是一个范围几乎无限的主题。

 

对我来说，英国运河最有趣的地方是它们对建造运河的民族文化的评价。250 年前的英国是一个“能做”的国家，而今天你可能已经注意到，英国是一个“不能做”的国家。

 

因此，有一个学术研究的途径，“英国运河是否表明英国曾经拥有今天的中国所拥有的积极民族文化？

No, not at all. While it's true that the UK today can't recapture the grandeur of its days as the "Empire on which the Sun Never Sets," it still wields substantial influence in global affairs. I'm really fond of the UK. I'm an avid watcher of the English Premier League, and the Chelsea team holds a special place in my heart. Perhaps, even though the UK may not be at the vanguard of global politics anymore, there are numerous areas worthy of our study. Take, for instance, the canal trust system and the crowdfunding model that I intend to research. This could be an excellent direction. I'm contemplating delving into the trust company associated with the Bridgewater Canal. Given that it's the first artificial canal, its significance, in my view, is truly monumental!

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, David Mack said:

This and other online catalogues will give some idea of the documents which may be available. But few of the documents themselves will have been digitised, and there will be other collection, particularly those in private hands, where there is no publicly available catalogue. There really is no substitute for visiting the archives in person and copying relevant material.

 

True, I have just doe a search and Manchester seems to hold a fair bit, but those I looked at were on Microfiche, so it will be visit Manchester, pay a researcher to visit, or do without.

 

I suspect another research area closer to home is the best option.

[China wang]

6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

我非常怀疑这一点@Athy保存任何历史档案，也许除了划船时个人收集的信息 - 照片等。

 

布里奇沃特运河现在归 Peel Holdings （https://www.peel.co.uk/） 所有，因此他们可能拥有一些东西，但布里奇沃特运河是布里奇沃特公爵的私人企业，因此档案可能由他的继任者私人持有。然而，这个标题现在已经消失了，因此它们更有可能与许多其他历史文件一起保存在地方当局档案馆或博物馆中。您可以从 https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/448/archives_and_local_history/7377/search_the_archives_catalogue Hope a member with a member to give you a more authority indicate to how them are here（希望能有成员陪同）开始，但他们可能分散在许多不同的地方。

Oh, thank you, sir. This indeed appears to be an excellent direction. However, it strikes me that the digital archives in the UK aren't as comprehensive as one might hope. In my current situation, the materials available to me are largely limited to some second - hand books. Nevertheless, I'm extremely grateful to you for suggesting such a great research path!

[Gybe Ho]

7 minutes ago, China wang said:

No, not at all. While it's true that the UK today can't recapture the grandeur of its days as the "Empire on which the Sun Never Sets," it still wields substantial influence in global affairs. I'm really fond of the UK. I'm an avid watcher of the English Premier League, and the Chelsea team holds a special place in my heart. Perhaps, even though the UK may not be at the vanguard of global politics anymore, there are numerous areas worthy of our study. Take, for instance, the canal trust system and the crowdfunding model that I intend to research. This could be an excellent direction. I'm contemplating delving into the trust company associated with the Bridgewater Canal. Given that it's the first artificial canal, its significance, in my view, is truly monumental!

 

Some truth there, the Premier League and The Spice Girls, our major international exports.

 

I have to say I am impressed with my ability to write in Chinese, they don't call me Mr. Ho on this forum for nothing. 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, China wang said:

Oh, thank you, sir. This indeed appears to be an excellent direction. However, it strikes me that the digital archives in the UK aren't as comprehensive as one might hope. In my current situation, the materials available to me are largely limited to some second - hand books. Nevertheless, I'm extremely grateful to you for suggesting such a great research path!

 

See may later post. I think a lot of the archive material will be in Manchester, but not in digital form. It occurs to me that my local university seems to have a lot of Far Eastern/Chinese students who, I assume, should be experienced in assessing physical archives. If you could contact those at a Manchester university, they might be willing to get the information that you need. But I fear just saying "Bridgewater Canal" is so general they will probably be unwilling to donate the time. Even if you find someone, there is still a question of expenses and how the physical information will get to you.

[magnetman]

'China' is an interesting first name to adopt. 

 

When I was dealing with Chinese suppliers they generally had English style first names. 

 

Things like Lucy Wong, Simon Chang etc. 

 

Is China a common name ? 

 

 

[China wang]

3 分钟前，magnetman 说：

“China”是一个有趣的名字。

 

当我与中国供应商打交道时，他们通常使用英文风格的名字。

 

比如 Lucy Wong、Simon Chang 等。

 

中国是通用名称吗？

 

 

不 不 不。这是因为很多人质疑我是不是中国人。我别无选择，只能这样做。😔

[magpie patrick]

2 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

Suspect post. This does not read like someone writing in a second language. Reported

 

 

I have often worked with the Chinese - if anything they tend to pick me up on my English. 

 

 

[1st ade]

There is an awful lot of useful "background" on ROMA, the RCHS Online Media Archive. Maybe start with https://rchsimagearchive.org.uk/index.php?album=Canals-Inland-Waterways (Canals, Inland waterways)

[China wang]

10 分钟前，托尼·布鲁克斯 说：

 

请参阅稍后的帖子。我认为很多档案材料将在曼彻斯特，但不会以数字形式。我突然想到，我当地的大学似乎有很多远东/中国学生，我认为他们应该在评估实体档案方面有经验。如果您可以联系曼彻斯特大学的人，他们可能愿意获得您需要的信息。但我担心仅仅说“布里奇沃特运河”太笼统了，他们可能不愿意捐出时间。即使你找到了某人，仍然存在费用问题以及物理信息如何到达你手中。

是的，这确实是一个大问题。但是，我仍然要感谢您为我提供建议。

1 分钟前， 1st ade 说：

在 ROMA（RCHS 在线媒体档案）上有很多有用的“背景”。也许从 https://rchsimagearchive.org.uk/index.php?album=Canals-Inland-Waterways 开始（运河、内陆水道）

是的，我以前使用过这个网站。它包含大量的媒体档案，包括照片和视频。然而，它对文本档案的覆盖范围相当有限。非常感谢您的建议！

16 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

Some truth there, the Premier League and The Spice Girls, our major international exports.

 

I have to say I am impressed with my ability to write in Chinese, they don't call me Mr. Ho on this forum for nothing. 

 

 

You're so right! The Premier League is a thrilling spectacle and the Spice Girls are iconic. It's amazing to see your proficiency in Chinese. Mr. Ho, your name definitely lives up to your language talent. Have you been learning Chinese for a long time?

1 hour ago, Tam & Di said:

 

 I'm sorry for doubting you, but the formatting of your mail is slightly odd, and gives the appearance of what is referred to as a 'cut and paste' as it is strips of white text on a slightly grey background.

I am aware of a Chinese academic interest in canals - colleague David Edwards May has just had a book "China's Grand Canal" written in conjunction with Professor Li Denan of Huaiyin University published by Jiangsu Phoenix Fine Arts Publishing.

Please don't apologize. I completely understand how the odd formatting could have raised suspicions. I'm not sure what went wrong with the email settings on my end. I'll be more careful in the future to ensure my messages are presented clearly.

 

Thank you so much for sharing the information about the book "China's Grand Canal." It's exciting to know that there are such collaborative efforts in canal research. I'm definitely going to check it out.

 

As for my research on the Bridgewater Canal, I'm still facing difficulties in accessing comprehensive resources, especially since a lot of them seem to be only in physical archives. If you have any further suggestions on where else I could look, or if you know of any experts in the UK who might have more in - depth knowledge about it, I would be extremely grateful.

 

I'm really glad we could clear up the misunderstanding, and I'm looking forward to our continued communication.