Boats without a well deck

[IanD]

26 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have side hatches and have often been unable to close them without slackening the mooring lines but I may be a bit lower than you .

Very possibly. The side hatches in the bedroom very rarely get opened; the ones in the dinette (both sides) often do, and I've never had a problem opening or closing them.

[David Mack]

11 hours ago, rogher said:

 

I imagine it would be quite a struggle getting out of either of those sets of doors, with such a small area to climb onto, particularly the first example!

[rogher]

7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I imagine it would be quite a struggle getting out of either of those sets of doors, with such a small area to climb onto, particularly the first example!

I quite agree. The first one is on ABNB, went 'on offer', then back to 'available for sale'. Maybe the interested party had similar thoughts...

[magnetman]

11 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I imagine it would be quite a struggle getting out of either of those sets of doors, with such a small area to climb onto, particularly the first example!

 

The theory being that people do actually manage to get out when it is an emergency. 

 

if its a pleasant day with a nice cup of tea it would be arduous but if the galley is on fire and you are about to die the door looks a lot bigger suddenly. 

 

 

 

 

My Boat is 9ft wide saloon launch with a front well deck so its really nice for sitting outside. Even when I had the narrows I did like sitting on a chair there. 

 

Obviously one could put the chair on the towpath but that is inappropriate land use. I like to keep my chattels on the Boat. 

 

I would never consider having a Boat without a well deck unless it was a tug style with a sliding hatch over the front door. 

 

Its just not right. 

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

48 minutes ago, IanD said:

I can't remember the last time I moored against such a wall, if ever...

 

Have you done much on the River Trent ?

 

Locks where you need to put both bow and stern lines around the sliders, & mooring against walls considerably higher than a NB roof.

[magnetman]

I'm moored on an EA public mooing near Windsor at the moment. Larssen piles with concrete capping. i can just open the side door but my side decks are about 9 inches (gentleman''s tape measure). If it was a narrow the side door would not be opening. 

 

Its not a tidal area but when the mooring was put in originally before the jubilee river flood channel this area was subject to significant level increase during winter floods. 

There are other similar moorings on the River. 

 

 

 

In fact when I had a narrow with engine room doors there were a lot of scenarios up and down the length of the Thames where I would not have been able to open or close the side doors. 

 

 

Another possibly overlooked issue with side doors in the accommodation area is that sometimes one may be tempted to have them open as it is all very pleasant and nice weather.. 

 

If one were to do this then enter a lock chamber which happened to have a side leakage issue, which does happen, it could end up being a bit of a nasty situation because the door may not be closeable when in an empty lock .

 

This would be a particularly displeasing scenario if the side door was near a bed or other soft furnishing area..

 

 

 

 

[IanD]

9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Have you done much on the River Trent ?

 

Locks where you need to put both bow and stern lines around the sliders, & mooring against walls considerably higher than a NB roof.

No. But if I did, the chances of ever needing to exit via the side doors in an emergency are too small to worry about, just like in any lock... 😉

 

9 hours ago, magnetman said:

 

The theory being that people do actually manage to get out when it is an emergency. 

 

if its a pleasant day with a nice cup of tea it would be arduous but if the galley is on fire and you are about to die the door looks a lot bigger suddenly. 

 

My Boat is 9ft wide saloon launch with a front well deck so its really nice for sitting outside. Even when I had the narrows I did like sitting on a chair there. 

 

Obviously one could put the chair on the towpath but that is inappropriate land use. I like to keep my chattels on the Boat. 

 

I would never consider having a Boat without a well deck unless it was a tug style with a sliding hatch over the front door. 

 

Its just not right. 

 

And that's your preference, and a perfectly valid one... 🙂

 

Over many boat trips I found the only real use for the well deck was for people to sit where it's quiet, unsociably far from the steerer.

 

I decided that with an electric/hybrid boat a better solution was to have seating space at the stern, where it's quiet for both steerer and crew to chat, and make better use of the space in the bows.

 

And that works very well *for me*... 😉

 

(personally I think a well deck with the usual cratch cover looks almost as bad as a pram hood, it's just *wrong*...)

Edited February 14, 2025 by IanD

[magnetman]

I agree about the cratch covers. They almost always look wrong .

 

In fact more or less any canvas addition apart from traditionally sheeted up holds tends to look wrong to me. Not a fan of covers at all. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

38 minutes ago, IanD said:

No. But if I did, the chances of ever needing to exit via the side doors in an emergency are too small to worry about, just like in any lock.

 

I was commenting as much on your boats design making handling a line from the bow very difficult - in 'big locks' a person is required in the bow with a short length of line put around a 'slider' wire in the lock wall allowing it to slide up as the water level rises.

[magnetman]

One can tie off on the wires and leave it but this does mean getting to the front safely and reasonably swiftly having tied off the starn line first. 

 

A bow deck like that is not safe for a crew member I don't feel. 

 

 

 

Someone is going to go swimming. 

 

I would want to be clipped on. 

 

I don't like walking along curved narrow Boat cabin tops it feels a bit dangerous specially if its a little damp. 

 

Its always interesting when someone thinks they know better than dozens of boatyards who have been constructing leisure narrows for decades .

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2025 by magnetman

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I was commenting as much on your boats design making handling a line from the bow very difficult - in 'big locks' a person is required in the bow with a short length of line put around a 'slider' wire in the lock wall allowing it to slide up as the water level rises.

same as would happen if single handed; go down with centre line behind the ‘slider’

[magnetman]

 

There are too ways of looking at it. 

 

 

"Stuck in the past traditionalists"

 

"People who know what works"

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

A bow deck like that is not safe for a crew member I don't feel. 

 

 it’s not,

and it’s the ugliest thing on the cut

[Jon57]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

There are too ways of looking at it. 

 

 

"Stuck in the past traditionalists"

 

"People who know what works"

 

 

And an experienced or competent lock keeper. Had a new one on the Trent who opened the sluice too fast and wrong side. Nearly pulled the wife into the drink. Makes a change from me 😁

[magnetman]

9 minutes ago, 5239 said:

 

9 minutes ago, 5239 said:

 

 it’s not,

and it’s the ugliest thing on the cut

 

To be honest with me I don't find it at all appealing but it takes all sorts. 

 

Of course an early Bantock front end is acceptable. 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I like the front end on that ice breaker,

Tycho was it?

[IanD]

37 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I was commenting as much on your boats design making handling a line from the bow very difficult - in 'big locks' a person is required in the bow with a short length of line put around a 'slider' wire in the lock wall allowing it to slide up as the water level rises.

And how does that work for all the GRP cruisers which don't have any direct access from inside at the bow, then?

 

Like I said I'm not bothered about extremely unlikely cases or ones that have never concerned me, I'd rather focus on what works every day. Too many people here are only concerned with rejecting the good because it's not perfect, they'll use something bad that might possibly happen 0.1% of the time (or never) to reject something that is good 99% of the time -- and snipe at others who disagree with them.

 

Every single thing to do with boats -- especially narrowboats -- is a compromise and a matter or personal opinion and choice, and there are always disadvantages to everything as well as advantages. There is no "perfect" answer that suits everyone... 😉 

[magnetman]

Tycho. I like the front of a Northwich star class but not with the ram. 

 

Doesn't do it for me at all. Hopefully someone will keep it but I dislike it significantly. 

 

Just now, IanD said:

 

Every single thing to do with boats -- especially narrowboats -- is a compromise and a matter or personal opinion and choice, 

 

Not really. Some things have been established as safe and sensible practice for decades. 

 

Its ok to change things but you do have to wonder why people whose business is making Boats do things in certain ways. 

 

It might be because they know how to do it. Some things do work and some things don't so taking your assertion literally Boats occasionally turn up which are basically rubbish because the customer does not know how to design a Boat. 

 

Nobody is saying yours is an example. 

 

Commenting on aesthetics is not sniping it is just 'personal opinion'. 

 

 

 

 

If I may say so I think you are too defensive and unwilling to take criticism. Nobody means anything bad by saying you have a silly rudder and an odd looking front end. Its just their opinion. 

 

Plus of course there are traditionalists without flexible thought patterns. 

 

 

[jpcdriver]

30 minutes ago, IanD said:

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I was commenting as much on your boats design making handling a line from the bow very difficult - in 'big locks' a person is required in the bow with a short length of line put around a 'slider' wire in the lock wall allowing it to slide up as the water level rises.

And how does that work for all the GRP cruisers which don't have any direct access from inside at the bow, then?

Generally shorter than a narrowboat, wider gunnels and a pulpit rail round the bow.

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, jpcdriver said:

Generally shorter than a narrowboat, wider gunnels and a pulpit rail round the bow.

Of course, but my point was you can't get out at the bow and have to walk round from the stern. On a narrowboat you can do exactly the same along the gunwale, which is what I've done on the very few occasions this has been needed. It's really not a big problem in reality as opposed to on the internet, no matter how big a mountain some people try to make out of what is a small molehill... 😉 

 

And if you don't like the idea, get a boat with a well deck and front doors -- sorted... 🙂 

[magnetman]

I don't like using narrow side decks in big locks. Its a bit hazardous. Not really enough space on the inside and on the outside one slip is seriously bad news.

 

 

 

 

Another thing about front doors is it is an opporunity to see out of the Boat in a forwards direction. 

 

Everyone is different but one of the things I like most about living on the Boat is to be able to engage with the environment.

Its a small space so its worth using the outside to improve things. 

 

Side doors mean anyone passing is looking straight in. Front doors means a little bit more privacy. 

 

 

 

When I got the saloon launch there were no windows on the rear bulkhead and the back door is solid steel. 

 

I cut a hole and put in a 15 inch hopper type porthole. Now I can see out to behind the Boat. Huge improvement. 

 

 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

I don't like using narrow side decks in big locks. Its a bit hazardous. Not really enough space on the inside and on the outside one slip is seriously bad news.

 

 

Don't do it then, do the sensible thing and walk along the roof to pick up the centre line (or the bow line) and climb a ladder if necessary -- or feed it behind a lock mooring cable and back to the stern if needed.

 

I'm sure there's one case in one lock in ten years where this isn't possible, but I haven't found one yet -- and if you have, fine, get a boat with a well deck... 🙂 

[magnetman]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Don't do it then, do the sensible thing and walk along the roof to pick up the centre line (or the bow line) and climb a ladder if necessary -- or feed it behind a lock mooring cable and back to the stern if needed.

 

I'm sure there's one case in one lock in ten years where this isn't possible, but I haven't found one yet -- and if you have, fine, get a boat with a well deck... 🙂 

 

I don't like walking on curved cabin tops..

 

When I had a 55ft narrow it had a reasonably level top. There was a curve but it was more traditional.

 

My mum also had a 55ft narrow and it had a sort of barrel shape to the top. 

 

I always felt safe on mine but the curve on hers was always trying to throw me off. 

 

So it depends on the shape really. 

 

Access through the cabin can be useful. I don't routinely use it but it is a handy thing to have available.

 

I would not want to have the bed right at the front because it is too close to the person who moors in front. 

 

By putting the bed forward of the engine space one gets a little bit of distance and therefore sound and fumes insulation. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

and if you have, fine, get a boat with a well deck... 🙂 

I'm not getting any more Boats. 

 

I have had 4 different narrows all of which had a route from the back to the front without needing to walk on the top or the side decks. 

 

The current vessel (9ft beam saloon launch) has very wide side decks which are brilliant and safe. And a well deck. 

 

And 23.7kt gold ballast. 

 

 

 

 

[rogher]

I like to see traditionally painted boats on the cut and also hear the sound of their vintage engines 

but I'd rather own a modern boat with its comforts and convenience from which to enjoy that experience.

Looking 'pretty' or 'right' is less important than being comfortable and safe. Indeed, my preference is to be as inconspicuous as possible rather than stand out to be noticed.

A pram cover is a practical solution, to be able to use the rear in inclement weather, as is a cratch for the bow. If they become a safety hazard by hindering access, that's a different matter. What they look like from the outside is less important than how the world appears from within.

It was for more of a safety concern that I raised the issue of bow access and a safe place to work from, particularly if visiting rivers where each end needs to be tied-up in a lock.

Of course, if you have no intention of visiting such places, there's no need to be bothered.

[Russ T]

Our boat hasn't got a well deck. It's in dire need of a repaint this year.