Engine stalling after an hour so run

[nicknorman]

Why do we try to help these people?

[GDJones]

8 minutes ago, hider said:

Diagnosing what is the real problem is better than just assuming and changing parts.

 

A temporary day tank suspended above the engine and feeding fuel directly into the injection pump will prove once and for all if the lift pump is faulty or you have air leaks into the pipework or if the problem starts at the fuel tank.

 

If you do fit an electric pump the fuel connections will have to be made properly to pass BSS checks. The Beta pump is known to be puny.

Thanks for the advice. It will be taken aboard. 

4 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Why do we try to help these people?

These people? Would you like to elaborate? 

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, hider said:

A temporary day tank suspended above the engine and feeding fuel directly into the injection pump will prove once and for all if the lift pump is faulty or you have air leaks into the pipework or if the problem starts at the fuel tank.

 

Point of order. Taken literally this is a very bad idea because it will be all too easy to get dirt into the injector pump. Far better to connect the said tank to the engine fuel filter to avoid that potential problem.  That is unless you fit an inline petrol filter to the day tank hose.

[Ex Brummie]

When did you last change the flexi hoses in the  fuel supply? A way to check for air ingress is to see if the tails twist in the crimps. If they do then that may be the cause of your problem. whilst fuel leaks show up at the point of occurrence, air ingress is invisible.

Edited February 4 by Ex Brummie

[GUMPY]

20 minutes ago, GDJones said:

Should of just said that in the first place instead of being critic or sarcastic. And I have taken the tank on board and if you bothered to read properly I did state that I had already checked and there is no signs of any leakage hence why I was swaying towards the pump. 

Might I suggest you read what was written!

It was suggested that you fill the tank, not to check the tank but to put the fuel system under positive pressure to look for leaks along the pipework and around the filters/pump etc as it's easier to see diesel leaking out than air leaking in.

 

[David Mack]

46 minutes ago, GDJones said:

Should of just said that in the first place instead of being critic or sarcastic. And I have taken the tank on board and if you bothered to read properly I did state that I had already checked and there is no signs of any leakage hence why I was swaying towards the pump. 

If you have air leaking in somewhere there won't be any signs of leakage. That's why I and others have suggested filling the tank or using a temporary tank to get the fuel level above the pipework, so you have fuel leaking out, which will be easier to find.

[nicknorman]

38 minutes ago, GDJones said:

These people? Would you like to elaborate? 

 

Well, since you ask, I am referring to people who come on here not having contributed anything to the pool themselves, ask questions, and are very quick to get stroppy when someone posts something they don't like.

 

As an example, a couple of people made what you found rather irritating comments. You had two choices:

 

1) You could have simply ignored them in order to get the best out of the forum and not set an unpleaseant and therefore seemingly ungrateful tone, or

2) You could have vented your irritation straight away and without any restraint, making you come across as entitled and sulky. Which if you consider it dispassionately, is unlikely to encourage people to help you. You chose option 2. Own goal.

 

I have no idea what you are like in person, and the written word is very bad at communicating character, so perhaps you are a lovely person. But my impession so far is that I am not inclined to offer help.

 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

 

Well, since you ask, I am referring to people who come on here not having contributed anything to the pool themselves, ask questions, and are very quick to get stroppy when someone posts something they don't like.

 

As an example, a couple of people made what you found rather irritating comments. You had two choices:

 

1) You could have simply ignored them in order to get the best out of the forum and not set an unpleaseant and therefore seemingly ungrateful tone, or

2) You could have vented your irritation straight away and without any restraint, making you come across as entitled and sulky. Which if you consider it dispassionately, is unlikely to encourage people to help you. You chose option 2. Own goal.

 

I have no idea what you are like in person, and the written word is very bad at communicating character, so perhaps you are a lovely person. But my impession so far is that I am not inclined to offer help.

 

Ooh, nice bit of victim blaming there...

 

Some of the comments -- including the one he objected to -- had no useful content and were purely having a poke. As was yours about "why do we help these people?".

 

If you can't see the issue with posts like this from "long-standing members" to newcomers, I'm afraid you're part of the problem.

 

And before you have a dig at me for daring to point this out, you've both got form for doing this, as demonstrated multiple times... 😞 

Edited February 4 by IanD

[GDJones]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

 

Well, since you ask, I am referring to people who come on here not having contributed anything to the pool themselves, ask questions, and are very quick to get stroppy when someone posts something they don't like.

 

As an example, a couple of people made what you found rather irritating comments. You had two choices:

 

1) You could have simply ignored them in order to get the best out of the forum and not set an unpleaseant and therefore seemingly ungrateful tone, or

2) You could have vented your irritation straight away and without any restraint, making you come across as entitled and sulky. Which if you consider it dispassionately, is unlikely to encourage people to help you. You chose option 2. Own goal.

 

I have no idea what you are like in person, and the written word is very bad at communicating character, so perhaps you are a lovely person. But my impession so far is that I am not inclined to offer help.

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

 

Well, since you ask, I am referring to people who come on here not having contributed anything to the pool themselves, ask questions, and are very quick to get stroppy when someone posts something they don't like.

 

As an example, a couple of people made what you found rather irritating comments. You had two choices:

 

1) You could have simply ignored them in order to get the best out of the forum and not set an unpleaseant and therefore seemingly ungrateful tone, or

2) You could have vented your irritation straight away and without any restraint, making you come across as entitled and sulky. Which if you consider it dispassionately, is unlikely to encourage people to help you. You chose option 2. Own goal.

 

I have no idea what you are like in person, and the written word is very bad at communicating character, so perhaps you are a lovely person. But my impession so far is that I am not inclined to offer help.

 

But you went against your own advice with option 1.....commenting in the first place with an unpleasant response calling me "these people"...you did not have to comment and simply ignore. I'm not stroppy but I do stand up to a BULLY. 

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Ex Brummie said:

When did you last change the flexi hoses in the  fuel supply? A way to check for air ingress is to see if the tails twist in the crimps. If they do then that may be the cause of your problem. whilst fuel leaks show up at the point of occurrence, air ingress is invisible.

I had some of the ISO7840 hoses made up once by a boatyard. They used a crimper but it was not of good quality producing slightly asymmetrical crimps. This resulted in a leak on one of the fittings between the stainless steel part and the hose itself. 

 

 

[GDJones]

1 hour ago, Ex Brummie said:

When did you last change the flexi hoses in the  fuel supply? A way to check for air ingress is to see if the tails twist in the crimps. If they do then that may be the cause of your problem. whilst fuel leaks show up at the point of occurrence, air ingress is invisible.

The Flexi hose has never been changed. I will have a look at this too. Thanks for your advice. 

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

If you have air leaking in somewhere there won't be any signs of leakage. That's why I and others have suggested filling the tank or using a temporary tank to get the fuel level above the pipework, so you have fuel leaking out, which will be easier to find.

I'm going to try this option over the weekend. Thanks for your advice

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I had some of the ISO7840 hoses made up once by a boatyard. They used a crimper but it was not of good quality producing slightly asymmetrical crimps. This resulted in a leak on one of the fittings between the stainless steel part and the hose itself. 

 

 

That makes sense. To be fair, the Flexi hose from the water seperator to the lift pump is connected to the water superstore by a simple jubilee clip.

[nicknorman]

16 minutes ago, IanD said:

Ooh, nice bit of victim blaming there...

 

Some of the comments -- including the one he objected to -- had no useful content and were purely having a poke. As was yours about "why do we help these people?".

 

If you can't see the issue with posts like this from "long-standing members" to newcomers, I'm afraid you're part of the problem.

 

And before you have a dig at me for daring to point this out, you've both got form for doing this, as demonstrated multiple times... 😞 

I’m confused. Are there two of me now?
You never fail to amuse by doing exactly what you criticise others for. You really don’t see it.

[ditchcrawler]

A friend owned a boat with a Nani engined boat and on that the on engine flexible hose collapsed under suction after a time, especially at hight revs

[GDJones]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

A friend owned a boat with a Nani engined boat and on that the on engine flexible hose collapsed under suction after a time, especially at hight revs

It's definitely one area I will look at, thank you for sharing your experience 

[Peugeot 106]

Don’t know if this helps but I am a fan of pressure testing with a car tyre pump with pressure gauge. If you have access to 8mm rubber fuel pipe the valve will fit in this. Cut the valve off an old inner tube. You can now connect to foot pump and pressure test. I don’t know what pressure is too much but start off low yo7 shouldn’t need many psi to find leak

[IanD]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

I’m confused. Are there two of me now?
You never fail to amuse by doing exactly what you criticise others for. You really don’t see it.

You and the other person making similar comments.

 

I'm glad you find it amusing, funnily enough a lot of new posters don't and bite back. Then the wrath of the CWDF "old school boaters" descends on them, and a pointless argument throwing insults around ensues.

 

If they then flounce off in a dudgeon, those who have "successfully" driven them away congratulate themselves on doing so, make comments like "shut the door on your way out", and then happily sit back in the knowledge of a job well done -- well, as they see it.

 

All of which is precisely why many newbies don't stay, or having heard about the reception they're likely to get never join CWDF in the first place and go to other forums like -- shock, horror! -- Facebook. Leaving CWDF with the reputation as a place populated largely by bitter old men who like nothing better than telling naive newbies how stupid they are compared to the boating elite.

 

As one of the frequent perpetrators responsible for this behaviour, I'm afraid you're the one who "really doesn't see it".

 

But having had exactly this argument with you before, I don't expect you to change your ways, so there's no point carrying on with this. Bye-bye -- again... 😞 

Edited February 4 by IanD

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, GDJones said:

 

If you can't respond with genuine constructive advice, please refrain from commenting. 

Best not to get in to a squabble if you can avoid it. There is an ignore function.

Edited February 4 by LadyG

[magnetman]

54 minutes ago, IanD said:

If they then flounce off in a dudgeon,

 

Another new word. I like new words. 

Thank You. 

 

 

19 hours ago, GDJones said:

Hi all, I have a Beta marine 35 engine and after about an hour and half to 2 hour run in neutral to charge batteries the engine stalls. 

Interesting that this is happening under low load conditions.

Lift pump does seem to be quite a likely culprit I think. 

 

It might not be leaking from the pipes. If the diaphragm is holed it could cause air to get in without showing a Diesel leak even if the tank was full. 

 

I'm not sure if failure of these can dilute the lubrication oil. It happens with some other units but Kubota may have sorted it out. Or not. 

 

Have you checked the lube oil level? 

 

 

[Bee]

This is the same problem I had with a fuel lift pump on a Beta 43. It would start in the morning, run for 10 seconds on the fuel left in the system than stop. If I unscrewed the filter it was half empty, filled the filter and it would run ok then stop after a while and the filter was half empty again.  It was the fuel lift pump. I replaced it with a new pump and it has been fine ever since. If you replace the pump I would take the old one off first to compare - there are two types, maybe more - one has a little lever on the back and one has a plunger. I also had to cut a spanner in half to get at one of the fixing bolts! They are available on E Bay. I also bought an electric pump just in case the thing failed again in some remote place. 

[Peugeot 106]

Typical “obstruction spanner” I ask welding shop to make. Cut the head off and weld back on at an angle 

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Bee said:

This is the same problem I had with a fuel lift pump on a Beta 43. It would start in the morning, run for 10 seconds on the fuel left in the system than stop. If I unscrewed the filter it was half empty, filled the filter and it would run ok then stop after a while and the filter was half empty again.  It was the fuel lift pump. I replaced it with a new pump and it has been fine ever since. If you replace the pump I would take the old one off first to compare - there are two types, maybe more - one has a little lever on the back and one has a plunger. I also had to cut a spanner in half to get at one of the fixing bolts! They are available on E Bay. I also bought an electric pump just in case the thing failed again in some remote place. 

 

Yes, I had the same problem last year. 

[GDJones]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

 

Another new word. I like new words. 

Thank You. 

 

 

Interesting that this is happening under low load conditions.

Lift pump does seem to be quite a likely culprit I think. 

 

It might not be leaking from the pipes. If the diaphragm is holed it could cause air to get in without showing a Diesel leak even if the tank was full. 

 

I'm not sure if failure of these can dilute the lubrication oil. It happens with some other units but Kubota may have sorted it out. Or not. 

 

Have you checked the lube oil level? 

 

 

All lubricants seem to be in good order. I'm going to try and do what is suggested and rig up a temporary tank to see if I can eliminate anything from the tank through to the water seperator and see if I can then narrow down where air may be getting in. Annoying thing is that it is time consuming as the engine runs for a good two hours before stalling so I have to run the engine for 2hrs plus before see. 

4 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Yes, I had the same problem last year. 

Thank you for sharing your experience, this is exactly what is happening to mine however, as you can see by some criticism, I think I need to do a raised temporary tank just to narrow it down and confirm it is the lift pump. 

[magnetman]

The pressure test is an interesting option. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Don’t know if this helps but I am a fan of pressure testing with a car tyre pump with pressure gauge. If you have access to 8mm rubber fuel pipe the valve will fit in this. Cut the valve off an old inner tube. You can now connect to foot pump and pressure test. I don’t know what pressure is too much but start off low yo7 shouldn’t need many psi to find leak

 

[GDJones]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

You and the other person making similar comments.

 

I'm glad you find it amusing, funnily enough a lot of new posters don't and bite back. Then the wrath of the CWDF "old school boaters" descends on them, and a pointless argument throwing insults around ensues.

 

If they then flounce off in a dudgeon, those who have "successfully" driven them away congratulate themselves on doing so, make comments like "shut the door on your way out", and then happily sit back in the knowledge of a job well done -- well, as they see it.

 

All of which is precisely why many newbies don't stay, or having heard about the reception they're likely to get never join CWDF in the first place and go to other forums like -- shock, horror! -- Facebook. Leaving CWDF with the reputation as a place populated largely by bitter old men who like nothing better than telling naive newbies how stupid they are compared to the boating elite.

 

As one of the frequent perpetrators responsible for this behaviour, I'm afraid you're the one who "really doesn't see it".

 

But having had exactly this argument with you before, I don't expect you to change your ways, so there's no point carrying on with this. Bye-bye -- again... 😞 

Thank you Ian, I am always reluctant to use Canal world exactly for reasons as you have stated as there is always somebody of old school boating that like to jump on the bully train and belittle those, like myself that are genuinely looking for honest and constructive advice. I could of had an engineer out but given the fact the engine does run for a good hour or two, it would take an engineer a good day or two to rule out certain things before actually locating the issue which would run into a few hundred pounds of labour charges. 

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

The pressure test is an interesting option. 

 

 

 

A pressure tester was actually recommended to me by somebody not on the forum, which maybe a consideration. 

[magnetman]

I think it might be the best option if the air admittance is very slow. 

 

Ensure the fuel filter is full of Diesel then pressurise the inlet side of the filter. At some point Diesel will come out somewhere between the filter and the high pressure fuel injection pump.