Boat Insurance.

[Tigerr]

We've always used Towergate Mardon, 25 years of different boat insurance. We've never made a claim.

There doesnt seem to be much difference in the cost between fully comp and third party, which I always find odd. 

This year the renewal quote was a shocking increase. From £270 up to £344. Inexplicable. 

I shopped around. 

One quote was ridiculously high - £447! 

But I also got a quote from Insure4boats, at £267. So I've bought that. It's the same cover, excess is half as much too. 

Anyway, I thought I'd pass it on as I expect lots of others are being badly stung by insurance renewals. 

Obviously I hope never to have to use it. 

I hope it's not agains forum rules to post commercial stuff like this. I have absolutely no connection to any of these companies!

 

 

[Mike Tee]

^^^^ Thank you, good information.

[Norm55]

Newton Crumb are worth recommending too.

[IanD]

Last time I looked, Craftinsure had good cover and were the cheapest, suggest giving them a try -- my premium at renewal was cheaper than last year!

 

But that was for an expensive new boat, there may be better deals for cheaper boats... 😉

[MartinC]

All the organisations so far mentioned are either brokers or agents. One of the most important factors is the strength and reputation of the actual insurer underwriting the risk but few seem to bother with that.

[IanD]

12 minutes ago, MartinC said:

All the organisations so far mentioned are either brokers or agents. One of the most important factors is the strength and reputation of the actual insurer underwriting the risk but few seem to bother with that.

According to my policy Craftinsure use Zurich, who are not exactly small, fly-by-night, or likely to go bust... 😉 

[nicknorman]

4 hours ago, Tigerr said:

We've always used Towergate Mardon, 25 years of different boat insurance. We've never made a claim.

There doesnt seem to be much difference in the cost between fully comp and third party, which I always find odd. 

This year the renewal quote was a shocking increase. From £270 up to £344. Inexplicable. 

I shopped around. 

One quote was ridiculously high - £447! 

But I also got a quote from Insure4boats, at £267. So I've bought that. It's the same cover, excess is half as much too. 

Anyway, I thought I'd pass it on as I expect lots of others are being badly stung by insurance renewals. 

Obviously I hope never to have to use it. 

I hope it's not agains forum rules to post commercial stuff like this. I have absolutely no connection to any of these companies!

 

I had a quick look at their cover. It seems to me that you are covered for theft of your boat. But not theft FROM your boat, eg stealing stoves, batteries, even engines (all of which has happened) not to mention personal stuff of any sort.

We are with Craftinsure at £287, insured for 105k and with 3k personal possessions, and theft from the boat is clearly covered.

Edited January 30 by nicknorman

[Norm55]

Anyone ever made a claim against another boater?   Last year I stopped to help pull an historic boat out of silt and the completely inexperienced owner once clear managed to put a 5 m scrape down the side of my boat 1/2 meter anove my gunwalls with his high bow missing my windows fortunately .  I don't mind the odd scrape but this could have taken out my windows.    He refused to give insurance details. I got his CRT number but they ( CRT ) refused to release his insurance details to my insurer siting data protection.  

 

[MrsM]

3 minutes ago, Norm55 said:

Anyone ever made a claim against another boater?   Last year I stopped to help pull an historic boat out of silt and the completely inexperienced owner once clear managed to put a 5 m scrape down the side of my boat 1/2 meter anove my gunwalls with his high bow missing my windows fortunately .  I don't mind the odd scrape but this could have taken out my windows.    He refused to give insurance details. I got his CRT number but they ( CRT ) refused to release his insurance details to my insurer siting data protection.  

 

How unpleasant for you. Especially after you stopped to help. I'm surprised that CRT weren't able to release information to your insurers. 

[Momac]

5 minutes ago, Norm55 said:

Anyone ever made a claim against another boater?   Last year I stopped to help pull an historic boat out of silt and the completely inexperienced owner once clear managed to put a 5 m scrape down the side of my boat 1/2 meter anove my gunwalls with his high bow missing my windows fortunately .  I don't mind the odd scrape but this could have taken out my windows.    He refused to give insurance details. I got his CRT number but they ( CRT ) refused to release his insurance details to my insurer siting data protection.  

 

No good deed goes unpunished.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

51 minutes ago, MrsM said:

I'm surprised that CRT weren't able to release information to your insurers. 

 

Particularly as when you agree to have a licence you agree that C&RT cab release your personal details to anyone they think needs them.

 

Section 10:12

 

[Momac]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Particularly as when you agree to have a licence you agree that C&RT cab release your personal details to anyone they think needs them.

 

Section 10:12

 

 

It does seem odd that details were not supplied. Maybe the request did not reach the right people at C&RT.

 

[Tigerr]

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

All the organisations so far mentioned are either brokers or agents. One of the most important factors is the strength and reputation of the actual insurer underwriting the risk but few seem to bother with that.

I'll confess, I regard my boat insurance as an irritating additional cost.

I utterly loathe insurance companies, I think it's a fundamentally crooked, criminally fraudulent business model. If you claim, you are going to pay back in premiums ever after. They will use contractors on backhanders, even blatant fraud, to inflate costs at every turn. they will write your insured thing off, sell it out of the back door, and pocket the difference.

My 50K motorhome was 'written off', after being nicked by travellers in Uxbridge. The insurers didn't know I'd recovered it, courtesy of the tracker, and knew exactly the extent of superficial dashboard damage, and it took the threat of legal action for fraud based on my photos to get it repaired for less than £1.5k. Theysaid it had been extensively vandalised, a write-off. 

It was a blatant fraud in my view, in collusion with the repair company, location of which they would not reveal and again I found on the hidden tracker and then turned up at their site. Crooks. They never, ever, lose money on the 'risk'. But you do. 

Rather like my house insurance. Back in the 90's we had a subsidence problem, and I made the mistake of claiming on the house insurance. They sent a company out with laser movement indicators, who condemned the house. I should have simply rebuilt the extension. My premiums leapt, and no other insurance company would touch us. They put a couple of staples in the walls, a days work at most. Then I found out it was £60k of 'subsidence reparation'. Total bullshit, it was £5k of activity at best. 

It's taken two decades to get back to normality, and we rebuilt the extension anyway a few years after. 

So I buy the cheapest insurance I can get. 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

12 hours ago, Tigerr said:

I'll confess, I regard my boat insurance as an irritating additional cost.

I utterly loathe insurance companies, I think it's a fundamentally crooked, criminally fraudulent business model. If you claim, you are going to pay back in premiums ever after. They will use contractors on backhanders, even blatant fraud, to inflate costs at every turn. they will write your insured thing off, sell it out of the back door, and pocket the difference.

My 50K motorhome was 'written off', after being nicked by travellers in Uxbridge. The insurers didn't know I'd recovered it, courtesy of the tracker, and knew exactly the extent of superficial dashboard damage, and it took the threat of legal action for fraud based on my photos to get it repaired for less than £1.5k. Theysaid it had been extensively vandalised, a write-off. 

It was a blatant fraud in my view, in collusion with the repair company, location of which they would not reveal and again I found on the hidden tracker and then turned up at their site. Crooks. They never, ever, lose money on the 'risk'. But you do. 

Rather like my house insurance. Back in the 90's we had a subsidence problem, and I made the mistake of claiming on the house insurance. They sent a company out with laser movement indicators, who condemned the house. I should have simply rebuilt the extension. My premiums leapt, and no other insurance company would touch us. They put a couple of staples in the walls, a days work at most. Then I found out it was £60k of 'subsidence reparation'. Total bullshit, it was £5k of activity at best. 

It's taken two decades to get back to normality, and we rebuilt the extension anyway a few years after. 

So I buy the cheapest insurance I can get. 

 

 

I've only ever gone for 3rd party from Basic Boat. Admittedly the boat isn't my home, but, like you, I've always regarded insurance as licenced theft.

[gatekrash]

17 hours ago, Norm55 said:

Anyone ever made a claim against another boater?   Last year I stopped to help pull an historic boat out of silt and the completely inexperienced owner once clear managed to put a 5 m scrape down the side of my boat 1/2 meter anove my gunwalls with his high bow missing my windows fortunately .  I don't mind the odd scrape but this could have taken out my windows.    He refused to give insurance details. I got his CRT number but they ( CRT ) refused to release his insurance details to my insurer siting data protection.  

 

Sounds about right. In December the boat moored next to my lumpy water boat broke a spring line and spent some time bouncing off the side of my boat. He had a rubber rubbing strake, mine are teak, result was not a mark on his boat but my teak rubbing strake was broken in two and forced off the side of the boat for about a 4 foot length. Not a cheap fix, on a nearly 40 year old yacht my insurance company will write her off unless I can claim from his insurance. Plus it'll also impact the policy cost on my narrowboat insurance too if I try and claim.

 

Into the marina office, can I have his details. No, due to GDPR we cannot release these to you. But we can email him for you. So they've asked him for his insurance details and he's just ignoring them. They say there is nothing they can do to force him to provide them, unlike a road vehicle incident there is no legal requirement to provide them. I asked if my insurance company wrote to the marina would they release the details to them, nope, same response, they will not release his personal details to anyone. 

 

So I'm faced with an expensive repair that I'll have to pay for myself, despite the fact I can prove his boat caused the damage (marina staff logged that they had to replace a mooring line that night) and what really pees me off is that I'm careful to double up my mooring lines whenever a storm is forecast to make sure this doesn't happen.

 

[robtheplod]

2 minutes ago, gatekrash said:

Sounds about right. In December the boat moored next to my lumpy water boat broke a spring line and spent some time bouncing off the side of my boat. He had a rubber rubbing strake, mine are teak, result was not a mark on his boat but my teak rubbing strake was broken in two and forced off the side of the boat for about a 4 foot length. Not a cheap fix, on a nearly 40 year old yacht my insurance company will write her off unless I can claim from his insurance. Plus it'll also impact the policy cost on my narrowboat insurance too if I try and claim.

 

Into the marina office, can I have his details. No, due to GDPR we cannot release these to you. But we can email him for you. So they've asked him for his insurance details and he's just ignoring them. They say there is nothing they can do to force him to provide them, unlike a road vehicle incident there is no legal requirement to provide them. I asked if my insurance company wrote to the marina would they release the details to them, nope, same response, they will not release his personal details to anyone. 

 

So I'm faced with an expensive repair that I'll have to pay for myself, despite the fact I can prove his boat caused the damage (marina staff logged that they had to replace a mooring line that night) and what really pees me off is that I'm careful to double up my mooring lines whenever a storm is forecast to make sure this doesn't happen.

 

I'd get the police involved, they seem to give information to anyone! 

[Norm55]

One for the small claims court then as you have a witness .   

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Norm55 said:

One for the small claims court then as you have a witness .   

 

 

 

How would that work ?

If you don't have his name and address how can you make a claim against him ?

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I've only ever gone for 3rd party from Basic Boat. Admittedly the boat isn't my home, but, like you, I've always regarded insurance as licenced theft.

 

Same here. I basically self-insure as my past experience of making insurance claims has been 100% negative. I only buy boat insurance as it is now mandatory to get a licence, so I get the cheapest insurance I can find. Basic-boat.co.uk is always it! £80-ish, IIRC.

 

 

[Phoenix_V]

34 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

How would that work ?

If you don't have his name and address how can you make a claim against him ?

I can see two potential ways:

 

1 Claim against the ship not the owner, depending on the amount involved possibly too involved/expensive I will leave the OP to do his own research;

https://www.admiraltypractice.com/chapters/35.htm

 

2 Small claims court claim against marina, they will of course defend this and in so doing it should be possible to force the name of the real owner (you may need to find a new marina after this of course!

 

Alternatively claim on own insurance and let them pursue a recovery if they can be bothered. If they declare the boat to be a total loss should still be possible to do  a cash deal and keep the boat

[magnetman]

2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I've only ever gone for 3rd party from Basic Boat. Admittedly the boat isn't my home, but, like you, I've always regarded insurance as licenced theft.

I have only ever used 3rd party unsurance and I've lived on Boats for 30 years with no other accommodation. 

 

Unsurance is a scam working on the basic fear driver. I would not mind it if it was genuinely people looking after each other and crowdfunding as such but the executives cream off vast profits. All by making people fearful of loss. 

 

Bad situation. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Momac]

1 hour ago, gatekrash said:

So I'm faced with an expensive repair that I'll have to pay for myself, 

 

If you had all risks  insurance you wouldn't have to pay for it yourself and if you had included legal cover then that cover would assist you with perusing a claim for recovery of the repair cost.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I have only ever used 3rd party unsurance and I've lived on Boats for 30 years with no other accommodation. 

 

Unsurance is a scam working on the basic fear driver. I would not mind it if it was genuinely people looking after each other and crowdfunding as such but the executives cream off vast profits. All by making people fearful of loss. 

 

Bad situation. 

 

The thing I notice about insurance is I see it as a scheme to protect policyholders from financial ruin in the event of a massively expensive event caused by them and/or their boat. (Or car, or anything else.) Insurance paying out to clear, say, an otherwise ruinous bill for many 10s or hundreds of £ks for say, wreck recovery or personal injury to a third party. 

 

But when I see people expecting insurance to pay out trivial sums for fixing say, repairs to a rubbing strake which doing its job, or a red wine stain spilt on a white carpet (another claim I've seen happen), I begin to lose faith in the principle as to my mind, these things are just fair wear and tear. I would never dream of making such insurance claims.

 

I'm expecting lots of disagreement on this.

 

 

 

[magnetman]

The 3rd party unsurance makes sense because it is actually very likely that one will kill or injure another person. I do it all the time with my Boats. Click on the website pay out job done carry on with life. 

 

 

But insuring for contents is something I have never done nor will. It seems the wrong approach. 

 

 

 

 

 

I can afford to replace my contents but don't have a million pounds for that child canoeist I squashed against the bridge or the paddleboarder who went through my propeller. 

 

Those ones do want an unsurance company. 

[Wafi]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

I'm expecting lots of disagreement on this.

You won't get any disagreement from me. In my sailing days, damaging running to hundreds of pounds wasn't uncommon, occasionally more; it was part of the cost of racing silly boats in silly conditions, and I wouldn't have dreamed of making a claim. As far as I was concerned, the insurance was to cover incidents that caused injuries or significant damage to other people's boats, or the sort of crash that put a big hole in the side of our boat. None of those ever happened, but it was reassuring to know that such an incident wouldn't result in financial ruin.

Similarly, my house is insured in case it catches fire or is burgled; if I break a window or put my foot through a ceiling, I'll sort that myself. Same applies if I reverse into a bollard and dent the car, but if it's stolen, or I reverse into a Ferrari, I'm covered.