Bridgewater Canal Breach

[Ogwr]

I remember at the time of the  1971 breach it was found that the ground at the base of the embankment was poor support for it with the possibility

of quicksand.. As regards to using using the Ship Canal my fathers boat was contracted  to the BBC for a television programmer ~ Nairn across Britain ~  starting from Worsley. So after the Lymn rally  we went up the ship canal to Hulme Lock. to do the filming over to Leeds . Coming back down the ship canal  we met 2 MSC Tugs  just before The reflection of the walls there gave a very hairy 5 mins with the  wash giving large up and down together with a heavy roll. We were glad to reach Weston Marsh and get onto the Weaver   

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Pluto said:

I  Any culvert built under a canal during its construction will remain the responsibility of the canal company unless they have been asked to allow improvements by another party. The 1971 breach is seen below in a photo by Roger Lorenz.

 

Interesting that someone earlier in the thread said they did geoengineering work experience in the area in the 1990s. One wonders what this may have been and if the canal company were able to offload responsibility somehow. Maybe something to do with the treatment works ?

 

People who know the place well won't have found this breach surprising. 

 

 

 

 

[David Mack]

14 minutes ago, Ogwr said:

I remember at the time of the  1971 breach it was found that the ground at the base of the embankment was poor support for it with the possibility

of quicksand.

It wouldn't be at all surprising for the natural ground in the river valley to be soft wet silt. And when this embankment was built the imported material would just have been dumped on top of it. The saving grace would be that as the embankment construction was necessarily slow, the silt would have had time to be compressed under the weight of the embankment, squeezing out excess moisture, stiffening up the soil, with the embankment settling as the construction proceeded, so that by the time it reached full height the whole arrangement would be stable.

As construction became faster and more mechanised during the railway era, the old approach led to embankment failures, and techniques to stiffen up foundations were developed, including removing soft material and replacing with something stronger, and building embankments early in the project to greater than their final height so the surcharge load would speed the settlement process, then cutting back down to the final alignment later on. In more modern times a whole host of mechanical ground improvement measures have been developed to allow construction on weak ground. 

[junior]

I take it no official word from Peel/BCC yet?

[Arthur Marshall]

6 minutes ago, junior said:

I take it no official word from Peel/BCC yet?

Nothing on their website. Perhaps they haven't noticed yet.

[Paul C]

7 minutes ago, junior said:

I take it no official word from Peel/BCC yet?

Not even on their stoppages page yet.

[bluegreencanal]

This is devastating for those living on or near the Bridgewater and I personally felt deeply saddened as it was a very pretty two day stretch of our journey south in October. I would have liked to revisit it at some point. Now that seems a distant reality.  Is it perhaps time to return to the days of large volunteer groups? .. 

 

My limited view of the canal system is that it's functioning in part but everything is changing. There used to be regular dredging near me, no longer. The trees overhang severely in places, trees grow out of gaps between piling and land. Along one part we travelled (i have video) bags of hardcore has been delivered but not used to improve the path, but to make a home for brambles - a significant distance of approximately 2 or 3 bridges worth of canal say over20 mins chug?. A significant bit of the north Oxford had experienced a landslide and it was not possible to return for our car via towpath that way. Pennywort was a big issue in one area, a weed like bamboo filled a half width for miles on another part and many more boats than approximately 5 years ago now line every bit of towpath mooring from Stoke Bruerne to Bletchley.

 

It feels as if the money isn't getting to the parts that need it. Are there more boats?

 

That said , we saw a brand new lock gate delivered to Braunston in November and recently saw an old one on a boat coming from the south of mk. We experienced wonderful helping hands on the Wigan flight just before it closed for repairs. 

[Liam]

56 minutes ago, junior said:

I take it no official word from Peel/BCC yet?

 

Nothing as of yet.

[Graham Davis]

Re culverts.
As Network Rail has found when culverts have collapsed, many of these were built with wooden linings, and as is natural wood slowly but surely decays. This results in the culvert collapsing. Now they can be lucky and it just paryially dams the water course up as the collapse doesn't completely block the flow, and is seen quickly, or they can suddenly collapse, often at times of severe storms, and they bring the whole embankment with them.

[Jim P]

Hey,

 

I’ve been out to visit my friend stuck in the middle, and had a nosey, like one does.

 

the stop dam wasn’t fully sealed (manc side) waiting for tarpaulin. The damage is still moving - my photo looks different to the ones from yesterday.

 

also, the beeb overheard me pontificating, sorry

 

jim

[Pluto]

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

It wouldn't be at all surprising for the natural ground in the river valley to be soft wet silt. And when this embankment was built the imported material would just have been dumped on top of it. The saving grace would be that as the embankment construction was necessarily slow, the silt would have had time to be compressed under the weight of the embankment, squeezing out excess moisture, stiffening up the soil, with the embankment settling as the construction proceeded, so that by the time it reached full height the whole arrangement would be stable.

As construction became faster and more mechanised during the railway era, the old approach led to embankment failures, and techniques to stiffen up foundations were developed, including removing soft material and replacing with something stronger, and building embankments early in the project to greater than their final height so the surcharge load would speed the settlement process, then cutting back down to the final alignment later on. In more modern times a whole host of mechanical ground improvement measures have been developed to allow construction on weak ground. 

Prior to the development of soil mechanics using calculus, embankment construction was pretty much sorted out by the early 1800s. Smeaton (details are in his published Reports) and Jessop had done much work during the construction of the Grand Canal across terrain which would probably be avoided today. Whitworth could not have built the L&LC through East Lancashire had he not had a thorough knowledge of a reliable method of construction for the eight major embankments on this section. The control of drainage was essential, with drainage channels excavated either side of the proposed embankment. It was then raised in stages, with a small embankment raised either side next to the drainage channels, and the space inbetween filled subsequently to form the main embankment. Allowance for settlement was also made, as can be seen in Maillard's drawings for an embankment.

 

One of the main problems for early 19th century canal and railway engineers, and this also applied to reservoir construction, is that they used a profile of around two horizontal to one vertical on both embankments and cuttings. After the passage of time, and the introduction of soil mechanics, it was found 3 to 1 would have been better. These ratios would vary depending upon the type of soil found.

 

Whilst Brindley's Bollin embankment failed after 250 years or more, that is somewhat better than the public buildings we erect today which only last 30 years.

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Nothing on their website. Perhaps they haven't noticed yet.

Probably not back at work until Mon 6th...

[Jim P]

I’m cocky enough to think that removing the three stranded boats on the Manchester side is not impossible with a bit of will and several tens of thousands of pounds.

 

- second temporary dam (one of those bags that inflates with water?) on the breach side of wood house lane.

- get 3 or 4 foot of water in that bit between the real stop lock and the temporary one.

- float the boats to the bridge

- big ass crane on wood house lane and lift them out.

 

John Sutton cranes are in carrington, and although I never went through with it, they quoted for lifting a boat out for me from quite an unusual place. 
 

jim

[magnetman]

I suppose what happens when a culvert collapses is this. Suction effect causes a build up and softening then a plug of earth drops down and blocks the culvert. Then the canal discharges to the other side. 

 

 

 

[IanD]

I think blaming Peel for somehow not stopping this happening in the first place is rather missing the point -- sometimes sh*t happens unexpectedly, like at Toddbrook, and without the benefit of hindsight and infinite funding it's impossible to avoid.

 

The key is what they now do about fixing it -- how long it takes, and what the consequences are like higher Bridgewater fees. And more worrying still, whether Peel will fix it at all if they don't legally have to... 😞

[Ewan123]

2 hours ago, bluegreencanal said:

Is it perhaps time to return to the days of large volunteer groups? .. 

I don't think a large volunteer group would be allowed near in this case - given the extent/severity of the incident, the risk of a repeat incident causing further damage (and cost, insurance claims etc.), e.g. going the other side and hitting the residential properties, will mean that the Bridgewater Canal Company/Peel will want to cover their future selves as much as possible. That will mean bringing in consultants and contractors with verifiable qualifications and their own beefy liability insurance. I wouldn't be surprised if they closed and reassessed a lot of the unaffected embankment as well, from a risk/liability perspective.

[Graham Davis]

28 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I suppose what happens when a culvert collapses is this. Suction effect causes a build up and softening then a plug of earth drops down and blocks the culvert. Then the canal discharges to the other side. 

 

 

 

That depends on where exactly the culvert collapses. Certainly on one of the collapses on a rail line through Surrey last (?) year the culvert collapsed in the middle and caused a "sink hole" to appear. That is the same as happened in South Wales at the beginning of December. (https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/everything-know-huge-50ft-sinkhole-30493826)

[Cheshire cat]

3 hours ago, Jim P said:

Hey,

 

I’ve been out to visit my friend stuck in the middle, and had a nosey, like one does.

 

the stop dam wasn’t fully sealed (manc side) waiting for tarpaulin. The damage is still moving - my photo looks different to the ones from yesterday.

 

also, the beeb overheard me pontificating, sorry

 

jim

 

Getting a tarpaulin in will be a challenge. The Bridgewater stop planks have steel rods driven through them so a crane can be used to winch them into position. The rods will hold the tarpaulin away from where it needs to be. 

 

I think some hardcore would do the trick. Certainly a man with a big hammer couldn't.

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

Re culverts.
As Network Rail has found when culverts have collapsed, many of these were built with wooden linings, and as is natural wood slowly but surely decays. This results in the culvert collapsing. Now they can be lucky and it just paryially dams the water course up as the collapse doesn't completely block the flow, and is seen quickly, or they can suddenly collapse, often at times of severe storms, and they bring the whole embankment with them.

CRT admitted several years ago they didn't know where all of them were which doesn't help.

4 hours ago, Paul C said:

Not even on their stoppages page yet.

I have had a stoppage alert from CRT

 

Notice Alert

Location: Advice: Bridgewater Canal

 

Intersection of:

Bridge 10, A572 Road Bridge to Bridge 10, A572 Road Bridge on Leigh Branch (L&L Canal)

and

Bridge 101, Castle Street Bridge to Bridge 101, Castle Street Bridge on Rochdale Canal

and

Preston Brook Tunnel to Preston Brook Tunnel on Trent & Mersey Canal

Thursday 2 January 2025 08:00 until further notice

Type: Advice
Reason: Repair

---

 

Original message:

The Bridgewater Canal is currently closed between Agden Bridge No. 26 and Dunham Town Bridge No. 27 due to a breach. This section is managed by the Bridgewater Canal Company, not the Canal & River Trust. However, as this canal connects to our network and forms part of the Cheshire Cruising Ring, we are liaising closely with them.

Nearest Winding Holes:

•West of the Breach: Between Oughtrington Bridge No. 24 and Lymm Bridge No. 23.

•East of the Breach: Between Seamon’s Moss Bridge No. 29 and Broadheath Bridge No. 30.


Canal & River Trust Customers

If any of our customers are stuck on the Bridgewater Canal, please contact our North West Customer Service Team at 0303 0404 040 for support.

 

You can view this notice and its map online here:
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices/30468-advice-bridgewater-canal

You can find all notices at the url below:
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices

---

Please do not reply to the email. It has been automatically generated.

To unsubscribe from this service please go to: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/my-trust/notices and uncheck the relevant box.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2025 by ditchcrawler

[magnetman]

It would be interesting to know what the projected lifespan for such a structure would have been. 

 

Presumably the engineers would have some sort of estimate in the paperwork. 

 

Nature is capable of taking over really quickly. 

[Jonkx]

ITV got it now.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2025-01-02/it-looked-like-a-bomb-had-gone-off-bridgewater-canal-embankment-collapses

[Tim Lewis]

21 hours ago, David Mack said:

Made it onto the BBC website.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/ce90729r30po

 

 

And the Daily Mail

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/weather/topstories/bridgewater-canal-bursts-for-first-time-in-50-years-after-severe-rain/vi-AA1wQhsK?ocid=socialshare&pc=ENTPSP&cvid=6197bacf2a744d2dbfa0d7b86f0e1a4b&ei=12

[David Mack]

And The Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/02/bridgewater-canal-embankment-cheshire-collapse-flooding

[wandering snail]

This on the Bridgewater Canal Co Ltd: https://bridgewatercanal.co.uk/boating/notices/

Edited January 3, 2025 by wandering snail

[robtheplod]