Bridgewater Canal Breach

[junior]

Does Pamona lock still work, and if so what's the criteria for booking a passage? 

 

That would still give a north/south option, albeit extreme?

[David Mack]

 

[MtB]

It barely seems possible for that degree of flooding, way into the distance past the sewage works, to have originated just from the tiny canal.

 

 

[magnetman]

Thats a bit bad. 

[haggis]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

It barely seems possible for that degree of flooding, way into the distance past the sewage works, to have originated just from the tiny canal.

 

 

It's not really a tiny canal as it is wider and deeper than most. A lot would depend on where the nearest stop planks are and how quickly they were put in.

[David Mack]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

It barely seems possible for that degree of flooding, way into the distance past the sewage works, to have originated just from the tiny canal.

 

 

It hasn't. The whole area experienced torrential rain. There's loads of water ponded against the upstream side of the embankment and that hasn't come from the breach.

Edited January 1, 2025 by David Mack

[magnetman]

Some rain gauges around Manchester showed 90mm in 24hrs. Quite wet then .

 

google manchester rainfall .gov 

 

 

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, David Mack said:

It hasn't. The whole area experienced torrential rain. There's loads of water ponded against the upstream side of the embankment and that hasn't come from the breach.

 

I wondered about that. Couldn't decide if it was an established lake or flooding. So maybe that large body of flooding contributed by penetrating the embankment under the canal. Or overwhelmed the culvert. 

 

 

[magnetman]

Or if there is a brook under there maybe it came from the breach. 

The whole idea of a culvert is to move water from one side to the other of a structure. 

 

 

This breach and that other one which looked like a bomb went off does make one wonder about all the old culverts and also the modern technique of constructing canal sections with concrete. 

 

It seems the use of concrete sections can potentially introduce a weak spot where it ends. 

[Russ T]

15 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Some rain gauges around Manchester showed 90mm in 24hrs. Quite wet then .

 

google manchester rainfall .gov 

 

 

The river  Bolin looks a bit wet too, though i am guessing that goes under the canal

[Chris Lowe]

6 minutes ago, Rod Stewart said:

The river  Bolin looks a bit wet too, though i am guessing that goes under the canal

The entire area appears to be flooded.

 

“Worst flooding in decades” hits Timperley and Altrincham https://youtu.be/GrfzioLXqtg?si=CJBlXHv05VEc7gjJ via @YouTube

[frangar]

I hope anyone with a boat in the vicinity is ok?? I’m guessing even getting the planks in takes time.
 

Given that Peel don’t have the best reputation for keeping the Ship Canal in good order I worry about the outcome for this breach….does anyone know if they have a statutory duty to keep the Bridgewater open for navigation?? 

[Debby]

Update from Macclesfield/Cheshire Police on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/100067215557487/posts/pfbid0VS1m1rPZfNJo4MrrG2Aqycu7MTroduSWHBu1PECCEzJ3ZSnMvqeQjrUXhTsu1mqLl/

Edited January 1, 2025 by Debby

[Dave123]

If they don't reopen it, it makes a mockery of all the millions being spent restoring currently derelict canals around the country!? How can a major route/navigable canal be allowed to shut whilst money is spent trying to open routes that may never even open?

[magnetman]

Its certainly a very interesting situation. I know it is not a CRT waterway but the CRT have already sounded the alarm bells about ageing infrastructure and climate change. 

 

Of course one of the first areas climate change will be noticed is in areas where humans interfered with nature a long time ago. The combination of instrastructure ageing and altering weather patterns could be hugely complicated to deal with. 

 

I doubt many of the old canal pioneers would believe they still exist at all. They were not built to last forever. Built to last yes but everything has a finite life. 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

If they don't reopen it, it makes a mockery of all the millions being spent restoring currently derelict canals around the country!? How can a major route/navigable canal be allowed to shut whilst money is spent trying to open routes that may never even open?

 

i don't know the Bridgewater but is it privately owned? If it is and its not subject to any sort of heritage protection then surely it is up to the owners to do what they want.

If it is private where are they getting their profit from? A private enterprise (Peel Ports?) is there to make money. 

 

That is the primary function. 

[Stroudwater1]

8 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

If they don't reopen it, it makes a mockery of all the millions being spent restoring currently derelict canals around the country!? How can a major route/navigable canal be allowed to shut whilst money is spent trying to open routes that may never even open?

It is largely local groups/ councils plus sections of the WRG and Heritage lottery etc that does/ funds restoration. It’s very much locally run and day to day funded  with local volunteers though. Nothing would ever get cared for locally if funds and effort raised locally then went to “help Peel holdings out”

 

I suppose it’s the equivalent of Bury football club going bust yet Manchester City and United nor other clubs not doing so and not seeming to have helped out much?
 

I don’t know the rules over lottery funding but perhaps it’s an option to fund repairs, though Peel may need to yield something in return? 

 

Hope people are OK. It looks like the narrowboat that went across the canal saved more damage and loss of water by partially acting as a dam. 

[MtB]

19 minutes ago, magnetman said:

i don't know the Bridgewater but is it privately owned?

 

Yes. As I understand, it a very large property and infrastructure investment enterprise called Peel Holdings owns the whole canal. They appear to be a private company rather than a PLC.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Peel_Group

 

 

 

 

[magpie patrick]

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

The 1968 Act didn't affect the Bridgewater public right of navigation but I wonder if it has been removed under other legislation (earlier or later).

 

Short answer no - my most up to date info is from about ten years ago when working for the Coal Authority on the Worsley to Leigh section when there was certainly a PRN, and I'm not aware of any legislation or order since. 

[magnetman]

The Bridgewater Canal Company Ltd is part of their group. 

 

 

(Peel). 

[frangar]

Does anyone know of any affected boaters on the Bridgewater? Are the stop planks holding?...Im guessing that great of flow of water could have implications away from the breach site thanks to scour and exposed banks.....Guessing @Liam has his hands full at the moment.

[dmr]

16 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The Bridgewater Canal Company Ltd is part of their group. 

 

 

(Peel). 

I believe there have been some negatiations about CRT taking over this canal, but Peel are a ruthless property company and I think they said CRT could have the canal but none of the associated land, property or other assets, so a huge liability for CRT.

[frangar]

5 minutes ago, dmr said:

I believe there have been some negatiations about CRT taking over this canal, but Peel are a ruthless property company and I think they said CRT could have the canal but none of the associated land, property or other assets, so a huge liability for CRT.

I know a few people who have had direct dealings with Peel and likened them to a cowboy wheel clamping firm in their attitude...and that was at a fairly high managerial level....

[dmr]

Thinking about this, its not a North-South blockage as one could still get from the T&M to Wigan and Liverpool etc via the Macc, Peak Forest, Ashton and Rochdale 9, so more reason for Peel to say they don't need to fix it.

[Jon57]

Just now, dmr said:

Thinking about this, its not a North-South blockage as one could still get from the T&M to Wigan and Liverpool etc via the Macc, Peak Forest, Ashton and Rochdale 9, so more reason for Peel to say they don't need to fix it.

Not for me unfortunately with the stoppages atm. The Trent is up and down like a prostitutes knickers at this time of year. 🥵🥵

[junior]

2 minutes ago, frangar said:

Does anyone know of any affected boaters on the Bridgewater? Are the stop planks holding?...Im guessing that great of flow of water could have implications away from the breach site thanks to scour and exposed banks.....Guessing @Liam has his hands full at the moment.

We are not affected here at Dutton/Preston Brook Tunnel currently. The levels went right up this morning and there is some interesting photos on the Dutton Dry Dock Facebook page of the stop lock doing it's own this and the T&M shaking hands with the Bridgewater. I made the most of the levels being up a bit and managed to get my boat a few inches closer to the bank. 

 

As I understand it the levels both sides of the stop lock are okay and the stop planks at Agden are holding. A nice converted GU boat came through this afternoon and I had a quick chat in the stop lock. He said he'd woken up this morning at Lymm to see the levels going mad and untied straight away and made a dash for it, realising something was wrong. Lymm is not that far from the breach site so that's positive that he was able to cruise away. 

 

When you get away from the shock of the images and start to think about what this actually means for canal life, it's quite a lot to take in. 

On a personal level we are really gutted as having just bought the boat after several years of not having one, something we were most looking forward to was being able to get into central Manchester for the weekend with the family, regularly and without any fuss. I guess that won't happen for a few years now, and we'll be going for weekends in Anderton for the next few years.

 

There's the boating businesses too. This will impact Liam severely as his whole business is built on his fuel run on the Bridgewater. I'm sure they will adapt and overcome, but business won't be the same for a few years. Likewise Thorne Marine. I'm not sure how much they rely on passing trade, they they are going to be really isolated now. Hopefully they can keep going. Dutton Dry Dock as well. I've been down chatting to Liz Leech this afternoon and she said the Dutton breech had a huge impact on business at the Dry Dock. Luckily this one is a bit further away, but all local businesses are going to have bookings from people who are no longer able to get there.

 

Wow.