Bridgewater Canal Breach

[magnetman]

Its a bit ridiculous that the CRT as a navigation authority have responsibility for road bridges. 

 

I seem to recall that road traffic has changed quite a lot even in my short lifetime. 

 

These articles are surely for the highways to handle rather than the navigation authority. 

 

Bridges are irrelevant when one is engaged in moving a Boat across water. They were originally installed to accommodate the needs of those who feel movement should be done across land. 

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Bridges are irrelevant when one is engaged in moving a Boat across water. They were originally installed to accommodate the needs of those who feel movement should be done across land. 

 

Shirley they had to be built when the new canal cut through an existing right of way. So the canal co would have been required to build and maintain a bridge.

 

Stands to reason dunnit.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2025 by MtB

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Shirley they had to be built when the new canal cut through a right of way.

 

 

True or to link land divided by the canal.  However given that they were built for horse and cart traffic it is farcical that CRT should be expected to maintain them to 21st century traffic standards.

[magnetman]

Yes. To accommodate those quaint old farmers with their horses and the ploughs and all that. 

 

These days the bridges get thousands of tonnes of wheeled vehicles including the Terrible Tesla Trouble people call cars daily.

 

This is a bit different to the original specification. 

 

 

[MtB]

Even so, the escalation in the nature of the traffic does not let the canal company off the hook. 

 

If they don't want to continue maintaining the old right of way they can always fill in the canal, and relieve themselves of all liability. Innit.

Edited January 12, 2025 by MtB
Grammer...

[dmr]

I think CRT should fix any bridge damage due to boat impacts, the council or gov'ment should fix damage due to road vehicle impacts, and stuff like subsidence should maybe be 50:50 split?

[magpie patrick]

31 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Its a bit ridiculous that the CRT as a navigation authority have responsibility for road bridges. 

 

I seem to recall that road traffic has changed quite a lot even in my short lifetime. 

 

 

On the whole CRT don't have that responsibility for precisely that reason. They aren't required to upgrade the bridge, so unless the original can take modern traffic it will have been upgraded by the highway authority. 

 

It's usually width that's the issue though - the old hump back bridges can take one heck of a loading. There is a story told of a redundant bridge near Newport, Shropshire being subject to a load test for research purposes - apparently it took a point load of over 200 tonnes before it started to fail. 

 

The parapets take less of a loading - I think several drivers lose their no claims bonus on these. 

[magnetman]

3 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 

On the whole CRT don't have that responsibility for precisely that reason. They aren't required to upgrade the bridge, so unless the original can take modern traffic it will have been upgraded by the highway authority. 

 

It's usually width that's the issue though - the old hump back bridges can take one heck of a loading. There is a story told of a redundant bridge near Newport, Shropshire being subject to a load test for research purposes - apparently it took a point load of over 200 tonnes before it started to fail. 

 

The parapets take less of a loading - I think several drivers lose their no claims bonus on these. 

 

That is interesting. I did think the CRT paid for vehicle damage to their bridges. Very good to hear that they don't. 

 

 

[TunnelTiger]

8 hours ago, Cheshire cat said:

I saw elsewhere that the sewage processing plant has some kind of problem caused by the breach and UU are having to tanker away the sludge on a daily basis. 

 

It's in some of the photos, the treatment works is half-buried.

 

When the Bridgewater gets the tankering bill from UU that £20,000 cash in the bank will be gone!

[Jim P]

I’d say that’s actually worse than my poor picture from 2 days ago. Bless frost.

 

offended you visited without messaging

 

Jim

11 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Shirley they had to be built when the new canal cut through an existing right of way. So the canal co would have been required to build and maintain a bridge.

 

Stands to reason dunnit.

 

 

 

 

Not only was I going to say this, I was going to Shirley it as well. Maybe, one day we’ll get to say “nice beaver”

Edited January 13, 2025 by 1st ade
Remove unaceptable language...

[Cheshire cat]

I hope you've got Tiger moored up well if she's at Stretford Jim! 😧

[magnetman]

This won't be the nb Tiger made by GM engineering with the Russell Newbery DM2 in it. 

There will be others. 

[Jim P]

Indeed. This is my tiger, no one else’s

[magnetman]

misunderstood

 

Edited January 13, 2025 by magnetman

[Cheshire cat]

13 hours ago, dmr said:

 

Its only a stone bridge 😀 and CRT know how to fix bridges, though a river and climate change are a complication. Its the Barton swing aqueduct that would concern me.

It is only a stone bridge but when it goes it will close the canal for a year or so and be another multi million pound fix. The failing  structure is towpath side so if we're lucky the canal may not empty. 

[dmr]

14 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

It is only a stone bridge but when it goes it will close the canal for a year or so and be another multi million pound fix. The failing  structure is towpath side so if we're lucky the canal may not empty. 

 

The Barton aqueduct concerns me more. The swing bridges on the Weaver are a similar threat but at least much navigation could probably continue if those failed. These are one-off structures built in the days when Britain had an engineering manufacturing capability. We have mostly lost that and so a repair might be almost impossible.

[TunnelTiger]

4 hours ago, dmr said:

 

The Barton aqueduct concerns me more. The swing bridges on the Weaver are a similar threat but at least much navigation could probably continue if those failed. These are one-off structures built in the days when Britain had an engineering manufacturing capability. We have mostly lost that and so a repair might be almost impossible.

 

You're being pessimistic there. Plenty of fabricators around who could tackle something like that, the only problem is money.

 

BTW - they don't have to British! 

[David Mack]

22 minutes ago, TunnelTiger said:

 

You're being pessimistic there. Plenty of fabricators around who could tackle something like that, the only problem is money.

 

 

I agree, its certainly possible. And the issue will be one of money, not technical feasibility. Last time I was there it looked long overdue for a repaint. Is that still the case? And if so, is that merely cosmetic or does it hide some more significant decay.

The other issue will be the machinery to rotate it, which is presumably technically obsolete, yet probably still repairable with the right expertise. That said, when the upper Ship Canal closes completely, as presumably it will unless Peel make real efforts both to maintain it and find new traffic, then the Swing Aqueduct could be fixed in the closed position anyway!

[ditchcrawler]

47 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

I agree, its certainly possible. And the issue will be one of money, not technical feasibility. Last time I was there it looked long overdue for a repaint. Is that still the case? And if so, is that merely cosmetic or does it hide some more significant decay.

The other issue will be the machinery to rotate it, which is presumably technically obsolete, yet probably still repairable with the right expertise. That said, when the upper Ship Canal closes completely, as presumably it will unless Peel make real efforts both to maintain it and find new traffic, then the Swing Aqueduct could be fixed in the closed position anyway!

There are plans to put a walkway over it

[David Mack]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

There are plans to put a walkway over it

Are or were? That project seems to have gone quiet.

[Paul C]

6 hours ago, dmr said:

 

The Barton aqueduct concerns me more. The swing bridges on the Weaver are a similar threat but at least much navigation could probably continue if those failed. These are one-off structures built in the days when Britain had an engineering manufacturing capability. We have mostly lost that and so a repair might be almost impossible.

 

If they can fix and maintain the Anderton Lift, then they can fix/maintain the swing aqueduct. Of course, the problem is the aqueduct's cost/(visitor)-attractiveness ratio is much lower, so there's not much incentive to do it.

[jonathanA]

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

I agree, its certainly possible. And the issue will be one of money, not technical feasibility. Last time I was there it looked long overdue for a repaint. Is that still the case? And if so, is that merely cosmetic or does it hide some more significant decay.

The other issue will be the machinery to rotate it, which is presumably technically obsolete, yet probably still repairable with the right expertise. That said, when the upper Ship Canal closes completely, as presumably it will unless Peel make real efforts both to maintain it and find new traffic, then the Swing Aqueduct could be fixed in the closed position anyway!

its a few years since I last went over it and it was looking decidedly shabby...  in fact when we arrived at the trafford centre side, the bridge was in the closed to canal position.   whether a ship had been past or was due i couldn't say but there were a couple of other boats waiting.  after a while the bridge started swinging to the canal open position, but seemed to stop short.  some time after a man appeared out of one of the wooden shed things with a sledge hammer, "delicate adjustment* " followed and another attempt was made to swing the bridge into the canal open position which succeeded - we decided to get across whilst the going was good....  

 

it was all interesting to watch although i didn't have the presence of mind to video it...

 

 

* code for knocked 3 shades of shit out of something...

[junior]

Councillor Graham Gowland has posted on Facebook that the Director of the Bridgewater Canal Company has confirmed to him that the canal will be rebuilt and re-inststed as a navigable through-route. 

[wandering snail]

1 hour ago, junior said:

Councillor Graham Gowland has posted on Facebook that the Director of the Bridgewater Canal Company has confirmed to him that the canal will be rebuilt and re-inststed as a navigable through-route. 

Ooh, mentioned in dispatches. I am a tad worried about the Peel wording here but Nabo will be one organisation of several I'm sure keeping their feet to the fire wherever we can.

[magnetman]

Posted on facebook. Must be kosher.