CRT Commission

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Would have been helpful to me.

 

 

I'd strongly recommend one to anyone who goes out into areas (potentially) without a phone signal. You could be just half a mile from a main road and civilisation and get a serious fracture simply falling off a boulder, stile or whatever. 

 

SWMBO is a bit accident prone - a couple of years ago (March as it happens) she fell off a step - only about 2 feet off the ground - and completely snapped her foot off, it was only hanging by the artery, and only her boot stopped it dropping any further - all bones and ligaments were snapped.

 

Air ambulance arrived but they could not take her to hospital by air because of the pressure drop and her loss of blood and other damage. fortunately the Doctor on air-duty was authorised to give Ketamin and after 10 doses she was unable to feel them trying to realign the bones for transit by road.

 

Steel 'plated up' ankle &,in a wheelchair for 3 months and 'ongoing' topping up of the 'grease nipple' and is now fairly functional.

 

Had she fallen off her horse in the middle of nowhere it may have been a different outcome.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tree monkey]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I'd strongly recommend one to anyone who goes out into areas (potentially) without a phone signal. You could be just half a mile from a main road and civilisation and get a serious fracture simply falling off a boulder, stile or whatever. 

 

SWMBO is a bit accident prone - a couple of years ago (March as it happens) she fell off a step - only about 2 feet off the ground - and completely snapped her foot off, it was only hanging by the artery, and only her boot stopped it dropping any further - all bones and ligaments were snapped.

 

Air ambulance arrived but they could not take her to hospital by air because of the pressure drop and her loss of blood and other damage. fortunately the Doctor on air-duty was authorised to give Ketamin and after 10 doses she was unable to feel them trying to realign the bones for transit by road.

 

Steel 'plated up' ankle &,in a wheelchair for 3 months and 'ongoing' topping up of the 'grease nipple' and is now fairly functional.

 

Had she fallen off her horse in the middle of nowhere it may have been a different outcome.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Holy f....

[magnetman]

Alan de E should be an advertiser for McMurdo.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

Alan de E should be an advertiser for McMurdo.

 

I'd happily do so - if telling folks about them saves just one life it'd be worth it.

 

For something so simple, so small, with no running costs, no need to recharge the battery every day (lasts 6 years) and, relatively inexpensive its a no-brainer for anyone with an active outdoor life.

[Gybe Ho]

18 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I have no idea how they allocate priority to PLB calls.

 

 

I thought such alerts were first routed through the UK's international maritime rescue HQ in Falmouth? The system is designed for rescues that take hours or days to intervene. You will be for a long wait sitting on top of Ben Nevis. Best first check if you have 1 bar on your mobile first. When I used to txt swmbo while solo sailing to France txts would still go through to the UK with 1 or zero bars up to 20 miles off the French coast.

[Momac]

58 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 The system is designed for rescues that take hours or days to intervene. 

Not much use at sea then ?

[Gybe Ho]

8 minutes ago, Momac said:

Not much use at sea then ?

 

No perfect for sea rescues where help is typically hours or days away. If a sailing yacht is half way between the Canaries and Barbados when it looses a rudder and a tow or rescue is required, the timescales involved with PLB alerts is fine.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Gybe Ho said:

The system is designed for rescues that take hours or days to intervene.

 

You continue to seem to have very little knowledge in areas I'd have thought a single handed (blue-water sailor would have known. 

 

Maybe you are referring to the 121.5 Mhz PLBs that did not use the satellites but relied on passing commercial aircraft (who were legally obliged to monitor 121.5)

 

The 'modern' PLBs operate on 406Mhz and automatically send the location signal and owners data to a satellite, which automaticaly sends it to the rescue centre (Yes it is Falmouth)

The unit still has a low power 121.5Mhz for traingulation over the 'last mile'.

 

15 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

No perfect for sea rescues where help is typically hours or days away. If a sailing yacht is half way between the Canaries and Barbados when it looses a rudder and a tow or rescue is required, the timescales involved with PLB alerts is fine.

 

But that is not what we are talking about - in that case it would be a ships EPIRB not a personal PLB and a heli would not reach them, and by default resue is not days away.

 For a paddle boarder, or inshore boater who has fallen overboard the heli / lifeboat is close enough to react.

 

 

 

So what’s the realistic real‑world timeline?

Based on how the Cospas‑Sarsat system works globally and how the UKMCC handles alerts:

Typical timeline (realistic estimate):

• 0–1 minute: PLB transmits distress signal to satellites

• 1–3 minutes: Satellite relays signal to UK Mission Control Centre

• 2–10 minutes: UKMCC verifies registration and notifies the appropriate emergency service (HM Coastguard, Police, Mountain Rescue, etc.)

Edited December 21, 2025 by Alan de Enfield

[magnetman]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I'd happily do so - if telling folks about them saves just one life it'd be worth it.

 

For something so simple, so small, with no running costs, no need to recharge the battery every day (lasts 6 years) and, relatively inexpensive its a no-brainer for anyone with an active outdoor life.

A very handy tool. 

 

One wonders if the priority level differs from those emergencies which happen at sea. Perhaps there is a list of outcomes on land which informs the rescue protocols. 

 

Other than extreme cold or bad exsanguination it seems that the emergency level on land is likely to be lower than at sea. 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

No perfect for sea rescues where help is typically hours or days away. If a sailing yacht is half way between the Canaries and Barbados when it looses a rudder and a tow or rescue is required, the timescales involved with PLB alerts is fine.

I would expect them to contact people who could kelp faster than 2 days, even if it takes them that long to reach you. likewise I wouldn't expect an oil tanker to come to the rescue up a mountain  

[wandering snail]

I think we need PLB or even W3W to get us back to the original topic???

[BoatingLifeUpNorth2]

2 minutes ago, wandering snail said:

I think we need PLB or even W3W to get us back to the original topic???

You’ve hit the nail on the head. 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, wandering snail said:

I think we need PLB or even W3W to get us back to the original topic???

 

Are there any new announcements from the commission ?

Are C&RT applying for Government time to discuss new legislation ?

Are C&RT increasing the licence fees for "FAT CCing boats" by 5x ?

 

Or

 

Is nothing happening, and the can gets kicked further down the road until Cambell Robb hands over to another CEO ? 

[BoatingLifeUpNorth2]

With regards to the Commission and licensing, just seen CaRT’s license prices for 2026. Maybe they should scrub round license discounts to get more funds in, instead of hitting some boaters with increases. An example is the discount with electric propulsion boats. You save £377 a year with an electric boat of my length. Why? When they can be running a diesel generator many hours a day.
 A personal view just to get the Thread back on track. Any others?😂

 

Edited December 21, 2025 by BoatingLifeUpNorth2

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

.....Cambell Robb hands over to another CEO ? 

He needs to work on getting the name the right way around. 

 

Only time I have ever considered Atkinson to be funny and John to be remotely worth listening to. 

 

An odd meeting. 

 

[Sailbadthesinner]

3 hours ago, BoatingLifeUpNorth2 said:

With regards to the Commission and licensing, just seen CaRT’s license prices for 2026. Maybe they should scrub round license discounts to get more funds in, instead of hitting some boaters with increases. An example is the discount with electric propulsion boats. You save £377 a year with an electric boat of my length. Why? When they can be running a diesel generator many hours a day.
 A personal view just to get the Thread back on track. Any others?😂

 

 

I'm with you there about the discount for electric boats which are propelled mostly by diesel generators. 

Mine is powered entirely by solar, no diesl or petrol. 

 

 

[BoatingLifeUpNorth2]

20 minutes ago, Sailbadthesinner said:

 

I'm with you there about the discount for electric boats which are propelled mostly by diesel generators. 

Mine is powered entirely by solar, no diesl or petrol. 

 

 

Yes, so imo you would be entitled to the current Licence reduction entitlement. But as you say most and what I’ve seen both running and moored have been running generators especially when the sun isn’t shinning. So using diesel like a normal boat.

Edited December 21, 2025 by BoatingLifeUpNorth2

[IanD]

4 hours ago, BoatingLifeUpNorth2 said:

With regards to the Commission and licensing, just seen CaRT’s license prices for 2026. Maybe they should scrub round license discounts to get more funds in, instead of hitting some boaters with increases. An example is the discount with electric propulsion boats. You save £377 a year with an electric boat of my length. Why? When they can be running a diesel generator many hours a day.
 A personal view just to get the Thread back on track. Any others?😂

 

I agree that the electric boat discount doesn't really make sense.

 

OTOH there are so few of them compared to diesel boats that if the discount was cancelled tomorrow it would make a negligible difference to the fees other boaters would pay, or the increases in these... 😉

[MtB]

16 minutes ago, IanD said:

I agree that the electric boat discount doesn't really make sense.

 

CRT though, innit. 

 

The whole licencing charge structure makes no sense. 

 

Organisation on the financial skids fails to put all prices up to a sensible commercial rate. Massive discount for diesel-powered electric-drive boats therefore makes perfect sense. 

 

 

[BoatingLifeUpNorth2]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

I agree that the electric boat discount doesn't really make sense.

 

OTOH there are so few of them compared to diesel boats that if the discount was cancelled tomorrow it would make a negligible difference to the fees other boaters would pay, or the increases in these... 😉

But there will be a lot more in the years to come and every little helps. 
It’s the diesel generator thing that makes it a bit, Hmmmmm why?

Edited December 21, 2025 by BoatingLifeUpNorth2

[IanD]

11 hours ago, BoatingLifeUpNorth2 said:

But there will be a lot more in the years to come and every little helps. 
It’s the diesel generator thing that makes it a bit, Hmmmmm why?

I agree that they'd make more sense if there were recharging points to avoid the need for these, but there aren't and there's no realistic prospect of this happening.

 

In the meantime we can carry on cruising around in silence a large part of the time, typically using less than half the fuel of a diesel boat -- that's the point, whether you agree with it or not... 😉

[BoatingLifeUpNorth2]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

I agree that they'd make more sense if there were recharging points to avoid the need for these, but there aren't and there's no realistic prospect of this happening.

 

In the meantime we can carry on cruising around in silence a large part of the time, typically using less than half the fuel of a diesel boat -- that's the point, whether you agree with it or not... 😉

But what was the theory behind the reduction? To get Greener all electric boats on the water? Or for boaters to boat in silence?

 It’s not just the electric discount. It’s all the discounts and River only licence. I think to get more money in, there should just be a Canal and River licence(no river licence, no discounts) with surcharges for CCer’s and widebeams. Which seems a simple way to get a bit more money into CaRT’s coffers.
 

[IanD]

21 minutes ago, BoatingLifeUpNorth2 said:

But what was the theory behind the reduction? To get Greener all electric boats on the water? Or for boaters to boat in silence?

 It’s not just the electric discount. It’s all the discounts and River only licence. I think to get more money in, there should just be a Canal and River licence(no river licence, no discounts) with surcharges for CCer’s and widebeams. Which seems a simple way to get a bit more money into CaRT’s coffers.
 

The first two, because boating without noise or diesel fumes benefits everybody not just the boat owner. Like the various discounts/benefits for EVs it's a way of encouraging people the switch to something more environmentally friendly (on new boats), and the revenue loss isn't an issue until the numbers go up -- which is the case for EVs now, but not for EBs.

 

Your suggestion in the last paragraph is one of the suggestions in the Commission report, isn't it?

Edited December 22, 2025 by IanD

[BoatingLifeUpNorth2]

33 minutes ago, IanD said:

The first two, because boating without noise or diesel fumes benefits everybody not just the boat owner. Like the various discounts/benefits for EVs it's a way of encouraging people the switch to something more environmentally friendly (on new boats), and the revenue loss isn't an issue until the numbers go up -- which is the case for EVs now, but not for EBs.

 

Your suggestion in the last paragraph is one of the suggestions in the Commission report, isn't it?

I think they mentioned getting rid of the river licence, mentioning the discount could be a cause of congestion on certain rivers. 
 It would be far simpler to administer if they got rid of all and had just one type with no discounts, only surcharges(CC/Widebeam)

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, BoatingLifeUpNorth2 said:

I think to get more money in, there should just be a Canal and River licence(no river licence),

 

 

That would require the repeal / amendment to an Act of Parliament.

 

Just for sake of correctness there is no such thing as a Rivers only licence. A licence is granted to allow you to do something that without permission you could not do.

We have a public right of navigation on Rivers so a 'registration' is required but it is not a licence.

As an addendum, whilst is licence is subject to the standard rate of VAT, a 'registration' is VAT exempt - a fact which C&RT are fully aware of, and there are internal emails between C&RT and the Canoe Union (or whatever they are called today) confirming that fact and trying to find ways around paying the VAT.

 

C&RT, and BW before them,. have been overcharging us for river registration by (currently) 20%