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Posted

Hello all,

 

I am conducting a research project, funded by the UK government through the Innovate UK Funding Programme, that aims to understand the duty cycle of vessels operating in UK waters, both inland and coastal. This research is crucial for understanding the energy use of all UK boats and ships. The results will inform plans for decarbonising commercial and leisure boats as we head toward 2050. This research will be (with your help!)  the first step in developing an action plan to help UK ports, harbours, and vessel owners meet their 2050 environmental commitments.

 

So, if you are a vessel owner or operator (for leisure or commercial purposes) and want to conduct some ‘citizen science’ – and be in with a chance to win a £50 Amazon voucher on the 20th of December 2024! – make yourself a cuppa and spend ten minutes telling me about your favourite boat!

 

The survey link is here:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/PJ7N5TC

 

And you can learn more about the project by reading the first page of the survey. 

 

Many thanks in advance for your cooperation

 

Dr Nick McCarthy
 

  • Greenie 1
Posted

Can I ask what expertise you have relevant to fuel usage on boats, so that you can understand the veracity of responses?

  • Haha 1
Posted

I have direct experience in calculating the energy use (derived from fuel use and duty cycles) of various modes of transport, including automotive, agricultural, and aerospace.

 

My understanding of maritime fuel use and energy analysis is limited to the energy analysis I have completed on a small fleet of North Sea offshore support vessels (duty cycle studies on seven different vessels over 12 months of data) and the fuel/energy usage duty cycle analyses completed on two separate passenger ferries (daily ferry duty cycle with summer/winter comparison days).  

 

I hope the results of this survey will add greatly to my knowledge and, hopefully, to the knowledge of the policymakers who will read the final report at the end of the project.

  • Greenie 1
Posted (edited)

Having had a look at the survey, if I still had a boat, I expect I would have problems with a number of those questions, in fact very few seemed to relate to a typical privately owned UK inland boat.

 

How many private inland boaters know the weight of their boat in metric tons (tonnes), a number will know it in imperial tons. Likewise, how many regularly use metric length/beam measurements?

 

I also note that the heading is Electric Boats, and that seem to be pre-judging the issue.

 

I suspect many UK canal boaters would choose electric propulsion if the fuelling infrastructure was in place, which it is not, and is very unlikely to ever be with the current policies.

 

Edited by Tony Brooks
Posted

Please feel free to complete the survey and also add your feedback in the comment sections. Hopefully, there will be similar, more targeted surveys in the future, and I am more than happy to learn from your expertise and experience, and improve any subsequent survey designs.

Posted

I was under the impression that the international  shipping ton displacement was the imperial ton, and that the Register Ton for specifying cargo capacity was 100 cubic feet, but possibly this has changed since I last had any interest in it. 

Posted
9 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

I was under the impression that the international  shipping ton displacement was the imperial ton, and that the Register Ton for specifying cargo capacity was 100 cubic feet, but possibly this has changed since I last had any interest in it. 

 

The concept of 'ship tonnage' dates back to 1303, when King Edward I introduced a tax based on a ship’s tonnage, which measured a vessel’s capacity in “tuns.” This early metric laid the groundwork for future tonnage calculations, with King Edward III refining it in 1347 by taxing imported wine based on a “tun” (252 gallons or 1,016 kg), thus establishing what is now known as the long ton (2,240 lb).

 

All sorts of 'tonnage' in use today :

 

Infographics displaying ship tonnage types: Gross Tonnage, Net Tonnage, Deadweight Tonnage and Displacement

Posted (edited)

Reasons why I  may get an electric car but will not be electric boating anytime soon.

 

Electric boats still cost much more (diy excepted)

 

Boats last 50 years or more upgrading by swapping the engine and fuel storage is horrendously expensive (diy excepted) and according to others on this forum will  necessitate undergoing a  government mandated inspection costing £3000 +

 

There are next to no charging facilities.

 

Most leisure boaters actually boat for a limited number of hours per year

 

HVO has been pushed as the answer to date why are we now talking about electric.

Edited by Phoenix_V
Posted

What put me off was the thread title.  I have no idea what 'duty cycles' are and I'm willing to bet that most canal boat owners (or even most boat owners) know either.

  • Greenie 1
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

What put me off was the thread title.  I have no idea what 'duty cycles' are and I'm willing to bet that most canal boat owners (or even most boat owners) know either.

 

Some sort of electric bike I was imagining...

 

But the survey is crafted to make sense to commercial vessels in broadly continuous use. So few questions make much sense or seem relevant to us leisure boaters, marina dwellers and live-aboards.

 

Edited by MtB
Finesse it
Posted (edited)

Likewise, the Governnent's Clean Marine Plan document is primarily directed to objectives for commercial shipping, and only envisages electric propulsion to be appropriate for vessels making short journeys, such as ferries, which can charge at their destinations.  

 

Edited by Ronaldo47
Government document title corrected
Posted

The survey specifically states that it is for boats under 12m (approx 40 ft ) and only effectively requests consumption of ' fuel presumed as  oil ' used in either moving the boat and to an extent generating electricity, although without further breakdown it does not cover diesel used  for heating, electric used as on a livaboard.

Useful  towards small  pure leisure craft including some lumpy water boats - as set pointless to almost all NBs 

Posted
15 hours ago, MtB said:

 

But the survey is crafted to make sense to commercial vessels in broadly continuous use. So few questions make much sense or seem relevant to us leisure boaters, marina dwellers and live-aboards.

 

I imagine the duty cycle of leisure boats will vary widely, from those which spend almost all of the time stationary at the home mooring or on a trailer out of the water, to those which are used almost on a daily basis. I doubt there is much statistical data available on how the usage varies to determine the overall pattern of fuel consumption across the leisure boating sector. 

12 hours ago, jim mitchell said:

The survey specifically states that it is for boats under 12m (approx 40 ft )

Well that excludes a substantial part of the inland waterway leisure sector. To be comprehensive this point needs to be addressed.

Posted

Survey completed, but not sure if it was actually sent, as the last page said to email it to @Dr Nick, but when you pressed 'completed' it just dissapeared and the survey monkey came up asking me if I wanted to make up a survey of my own.

 

The wording and questions are totally inappropriate for both coastal leisure boats and canal/river inland waterway boats. @Dr Nick is missing a trick and, if the survey was to be written to include them, the information from in excess of 400,000 boats could have a noticable effect on his findings 

 

But - Hey Ho !

Posted
14 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I imagine the duty cycle of leisure boats will vary widely, from those which spend almost all of the time stationary at the home mooring or on a trailer out of the water, to those which are used almost on a daily basis. I doubt there is much statistical data available on how the usage varies to determine the overall pattern of fuel consumption across the leisure boating sector. 

Well that excludes a substantial part of the inland waterway leisure sector. To be comprehensive this point needs to be addressed.

 

This is why I am extremely sceptical about the whole thing.

 

Is the Dr, really is qualified to doctorate level or is this for some kind of student project/dissertation?

Is this government commissioned or is it independent?

If independent, who is funding it?

Why does the Dr seem to have no real idea about UK inland boating - so little, his questions, rule a large sector out (as pointed out above)?

Why does it seem only concerned with electric propulsion, so it rules out other potential green/semi-green solutions?

 

To me, it looks like an amateurish survey designed to get the answer the funder wants.

 

  • Greenie 1
Posted (edited)

It states in the OP that it is government funded.

 

Without making this too political, I refuse to contribute to any survey which may contribute to the clowns in Westminster bankrupting the country due to the net zero fantasy.

 

 

Edited by smiler
Spelinggg
  • Greenie 4
Posted

I am responsible for multiple boats.

 

The survey says I can either average them or submit separate responses.

The boats and their duty cycles are quite different (for narrowboats, anyway) so I chose not to average them, but the survey doesn't actually permit repeat entries.

Posted
Just now, Francis Herne said:

I am responsible for multiple boats.

 

The survey says I can either average them or submit separate responses.

The boats and their duty cycles are quite different (for narrowboats, anyway) so I chose not to average them, but the survey doesn't actually permit repeat entries.

 

 

And, if you did try and go back to the survey it will not let you, and says "you have already completed this survey".

 

I tried to get back in to do it for my second boat.

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