History and mechanics of water mills

[magpie patrick]

Earlier this week I was invited to look around Baylham Mill on the Gipping - disused for decades but never converted to any other use. This has given me an appetite to know more about water mills, both history and processes. I know the basics but lack details. Can anyone recommend a good book or three? 

 

No pics inside as it was too dark (no lights) and anyway it's private, but a view of the outside for your delectation. 

 

the big arch is for the navigation, the small one is for the exit leat from the mill. 

 

I did get a picture of a vintage fire extinguisher which may interest some of you - I wouldn't fancy putting out a mill fire with it!

[magnetman]

I don't know much about them but a relative did have 'custody' of a watermill near Godalming and I did visit. National Trust owned but they lived there. 

 

Fascinating place really. 

 

One minor detail which I liked but is probably normal with these sorts of things is that the teeth of the large cast iron gear transferring power from the waterwheel were made of wood. Apple I think it was. 

 

That was so if there mechanism jams and the waterwheel keeps turning the teeth are stripped and can be replaced later rather than a major failure. 

 

Nice. 

 

I don't remember much else. Cool place though. 

 

 

 

 

[Pluto]

Fairbairn, Mills and Millwork, two vols. You should be able to download from Google, or Internet Archive. Just a quick look will tell you that it is a pretty extensive subject. I have a number of pdfs of books I have copied - probably most are now available to download - but can send you a selection by wetransfer.

[Tony Brooks]

34 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I don't know much about them but a relative did have 'custody' of a watermill near Godalming and I did visit. National Trust owned but they lived there. 

 

Fascinating place really. 

 

One minor detail which I liked but is probably normal with these sorts of things is that the teeth of the large cast iron gear transferring power from the waterwheel were made of wood. Apple I think it was. 

 

That was so if there mechanism jams and the waterwheel keeps turning the teeth are stripped and can be replaced later rather than a major failure. 

 

Nice. 

 

I don't remember much else. Cool place though. 

 

 

 

 

 

I think that in mills, like flour mills, that have the potential to create an explosive atmosphere with dust in the air, it was also to reduce the risk of sparks.

[IanD]

32 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I think that in mills, like flour mills, that have the potential to create an explosive atmosphere with dust in the air, it was also to reduce the risk of sparks.

There's also the engineering principle that if you want to run gears or bearings without good lubrication it's always better to have a hard surface and a softer one mating, this gives much lower wear than two equally hard ones -- so wood and cast iron are a good choice, as are steel/brass or steel/white metal, all commonly used in different areas both in the past and today.

[Pluto]

27 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I think that in mills, like flour mills, that have the potential to create an explosive atmosphere with dust in the air, it was also to reduce the risk of sparks.

Wooden teeth were used because it was impossible to get teeth cast accurately enough to ensure that they meshed easily and quietly if both were iron. Apple is fine grained and tough, so made an excellent material for gear teeth. The photo below, of Eling Tide Mill in 1978, shows a typical set up, with the small cast iron gear driving the mill stone, and the larger gear with wooden teeth to drive it. The mesh was not exactly perfect by modern standards. 

This photo shows another method for raising the small millstone gear clear of the large drive gear with wooden teeth - the cast iron gear could rise and fall whilst still held by the vertical shaft - and at the bottom of that shaft the gears for raising and lowering it. They raised and lowered the millstone which revolved. The two millstones, one rotating and one stationary, touching whilst grinding was the main cause of explosions and fires in flour mills.

[BEngo]

The  "right" gap between the millstones was remarkably small- about the same thickness as a sheet of paper when grinding wheat flour,  according to our local Miller.

 

N

[Ken X]

There is a working water mill at the Weald and Downland Museum in Sussex if you are in the area. They sell the flour in the Museum shop.

[magpie patrick]

2 hours ago, Pluto said:

Fairbairn, Mills and Millwork, two vols. You should be able to download from Google, or Internet Archive. Just a quick look will tell you that it is a pretty extensive subject. I have a number of pdfs of books I have copied - probably most are now available to download - but can send you a selection by wetransfer.

 I've now found those thank you - they will either keep me occupied for quite a while or be so far over my head that I need something simpler before tackling them!

3 hours ago, magnetman said:

One minor detail which I liked but is probably normal with these sorts of things is that the teeth of the large cast iron gear transferring power from the waterwheel were made of wood. Apple I think it was. 

 In Narrow Boat Rolt makes reference to the miller in Church Minshull using apple wood for the gear teeth, the miller has a supply handy to make replacement teeth when needed

[max's son]

I remember doing my O level metalwork project on Forge Mill that made ladles

 

details of the mill can be found here

Churchill Forge Mill ~ The Little Mill

 

[ditchcrawler]

6 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Earlier this week I was invited to look around Baylham Mill on the Gipping - disused for decades but never converted to any other use. This has given me an appetite to know more about water mills, both history and processes. I know the basics but lack details. Can anyone recommend a good book or three? 

 

No pics inside as it was too dark (no lights) and anyway it's private, but a view of the outside for your delectation. 

 

the big arch is for the navigation, the small one is for the exit leat from the mill. 

 

I did get a picture of a vintage fire extinguisher which may interest some of you - I wouldn't fancy putting out a mill fire with it!

From when I last saw it, probably 10 years ago it just looked like the miller had closed the door and walked away. Miss James was the custodian but not the owner

Edited Wednesday at 17:28 by ditchcrawler

[Tam & Di]

8 hours ago, magnetman said:

One minor detail which I liked but is probably normal with these sorts of things is that the teeth of the large cast iron gear transferring power from the waterwheel were made of wood. Apple I think it was.

Given the dusty environment, as Tony mentioned it also reduced the chance of sparks causing an explosion. There are several locks in France named "Moulin Brulé" after such an event, and in England "Burnt Mill", similarly. There is also of course the Moulin Rouge, commemorating the sad fate of a miller who got caught up in the machinery, and whose blood therefore turned the flour red.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 18:42 by Tam & Di
credit earlier post

[Tony Brooks]

Although not a water mill, I believe that a flour mill in Silvertown, London blew up during WW2 because of a dust explosion.

[ditchcrawler]

Windmills used Apple wood as if something jammed the top wouldn't fly off the mill with the sails going round. the teeth would snap like a share pin.

[magpie patrick]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

From when I last saw it, probably 10 years ago it just looked like the miller had closed the door and walked away. Miss James was the custodian but not the owner

 

It looks pretty much the same now except for 10 years more dust!

 

2 hours ago, Tam & Di said:

There is also of course the Moulin Rouge, commemorating the sad fate of a miller who got caught up in the machinery, and whose blood therefore turned the flour red.

 

 

 

Well that's ruined the can-can as a spectacle!

[Derek R.]

Looks like a section of the iron teeth have broken away in one image.

 

And that fire extinguisher takes me back to primary school days! They were water filled with a glass phial within holding air pressure. Striking the 'knob' broke the glass releasing the pressure, thereby forcing water from the nozzle.

[Tony Brooks]

9 hours ago, Derek R. said:

Looks like a section of the iron teeth have broken away in one image.

 

And that fire extinguisher takes me back to primary school days! They were water filled with a glass phial within holding air pressure. Striking the 'knob' broke the glass releasing the pressure, thereby forcing water from the nozzle.

 

I understood that the "water" was actually a solution of bicarbonate of soda and the glass phial contained acid, so when they mixed the gas from the reaction produced gas pressure.

[magnetman]

https://www.richardrobertsarchive.org.uk/stockport-advertising-archive-blog/history-of-minimax-advertising

Interesting story. German company. 

 

 

[merline]

A friend of mine lives in and is restoring a windmill in Norfolk, he says another reason for Apple wood (or Cherry) is that it is self lubricating to a certain extent 

All the other reasons are valid, prevention of sparks, easy replacement and sacrificial if there's a jam. 

[Derek R.]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I understood that the "water" was actually a solution of bicarbonate of soda and the glass phial contained acid, so when they mixed the gas from the reaction produced gas pressure.

You are correct! From a distant memory 'water' sprang to mind, and I 'guessed' the rest . . . 'What a mistaker to maker'. (Spoken in an Italian accent).

Edited Thursday at 08:31 by Derek R.

[Pluto]

• It would be a poorly-maintained mill where there was sufficient dust for a spark from the gears to cause an explosion. The photo shows the underside of the grinding area at Eling. Although the mill had ceased operation for some years, it had not been cleaned and there was little sign of flour dust hanging around. The flooring in flour mills had loose tongues between adjacent planks, drastically reducing the chance of flour falling through to the gear area. It was in the immediate enclosed area around the stones where the danger mainly lay.

[john.k]

In the 1950s the UK government effectively  banned water power        interesting commentary on the inability of politicians to do anything right.

[David Mack]

25 minutes ago, john.k said:

In the 1950s the UK government effectively  banned water power        interesting commentary on the inability of politicians to do anything right.

What is the basis of that statement?

[ditchcrawler]

If you want a Mill one has just come up for sale Kate Bush's former Berkshire watermill home for sale for £11.5 million

[Ogwr]

I did a week in the Ranks Mill at Millwall Dock as a trainee not water powered  ! Any process that causes dust in a confined space  has the risk of explosion.flour, sugar ,cement etc.. All areas had dust extractors to reduce dust and there were explosive release doors in the roof to ensure any explosion went upwards rather than outwards. Best part was the nearness to the Grapes at Limehouse for a pint after work.